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Topic: Strange things happen all the time
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 12 August 2002 06:15 PM
Regarding the Occam's Razor test. The simplest explanation for everything is, "God did it."Why is the sky blue? "God wills it." Why does water freeze? "God wills it." It can be a completely coherent explanation for everything in the world too. What about contradictions? "God wills contradictions." Perfect. Doesn't fail Occam's Razor at all.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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rici
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2710
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posted 12 August 2002 07:00 PM
Occam's Razor was a bit more precise than "the simplest explanation" -- it certainly doesn't mean that the shortest explanation wins. quote: Because Occam's razor is sometimes called the principle of simplicity some simpleminded creationists have argued that Occam's razor can be used to support creationism over evolution. After all, having God create everything is much simpler than evolution, which is a very complex mechanism. But Occam's razor does not say that the more simpleminded a hypothesis, the better. If it did, Occam's would be dull razor for a dim populace indeed.(from the above link, which is quite a good discussion.)
It should be noted that Occam himself was not bothered by the existence of God, which he took on faith.
From: Lima, Perú | Registered: Jun 2002
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dale cooper
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2946
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posted 13 August 2002 01:57 AM
When dealing with a topic like this, in a realm where if you don't know everything, you know nothing, how can we say what is mere chance and what is fate/destiny/divine intervention? The fact of the matter is, is that what we personally believe doesn't matter to whatever is the truth. If there is really a God out there pushing us around like chess pieces; or if the Universe is entirely a mathematical construction where all numbers need to add up to 11; or if the mysterious forces of the Tao pull us together and push us apart depending on how we flow with everything else, our personal beliefs have no effect. This goes for Occam's Razor too. Just because something is a good sounding theory doesn't make it right. The horizon still looks flat to me, even if the world is round. I'm losing cohesiveness as I babble on. I'll shut up now.
From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002
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Rebecca West
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1873
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posted 13 August 2002 04:08 PM
quote: Perfect. Doesn't fail Occam's Razor at all
An invisible supernatural omnipotent being who created the universe and is responsible for much that goes on in it, but for some reason offers no proof of its existence? God unfortunately fails Occam's little test. (Insert Nelson ha-ha) quote: A cluster of similar events happening isn't unusual; in fact in statistics it is to be expected and it is called the poison distribution, if memory serves
Ayup. French mathematician Poisson's statistical algorithm gives us a mathematical understanding of how relatively rare events can occur in close proximity. It's mostly used in manufacturing to predict screwups on the line, but you can apply it to any number of event clusters. Like when everything in your life goes horribly awry all at once - poisson distribution! Aunt Mabel dying three months after Uncle Fred, whose death was close on the heels of Freckles the cat's early demise - poisson distribution!Of course, I use the less fancy-schmancy name for it. Cluster fuck. Edited: for hideous spelling [ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]
From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 13 August 2002 11:22 PM
But what has always bugged me about Occam's Razor is this. Say something really, really weird and out of the ordinary took place, but nobody saw that weird thing happen - all they saw was the result. And say that result is the same result that would have happened from a mundane, everyday thing. When we try to guess what happened, we would say that the mundane, everyday thing happened, using Occam's Razor, when in actual fact the really, really weird and out of the ordinary thing happened. And if anyone said, "Hey, I wonder if the reason for that result was this really, really weird and out of the ordinary thing?" they would be considered a weirdo and conspiracy theorist and the like.Well, it's just a thought. One that's always bugged me. Maybe that's why conspiracy theories are so popular with so many people - you just never know - even if the odds are against something, and there are a million things more likely, it doesn't mean something CAN'T happen. Only, we'll never believe it if it does because we'll be shaving with Occam.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690
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posted 14 August 2002 12:47 AM
Ah, but if that one person went around telling people I'm a meanie and then everyone doesn't like me because of that, that means that I'm not personable enough to overcome the lie being spread about me. So it still comes down to me and not the conspiracy against me.That is why I love philosophy. All that I'm saying is that it is handy reference. From the link above by Rici lake: quote: Occam's razor is also called the principle of parsimony. These days it is usually interpreted to mean something like "the simpler the explanation, the better" or "don't multiply hypotheses unnecessarily." In any case, Occam's razor is a principle which is frequently used outside of ontology, e.g., by philosophers of science in an effort to establish criteria for choosing from among theories with equal explanatory power. When giving explanatory reasons for something, don't posit more than is necessary. Von Däniken could be right: maybe extraterrestrials did teach ancient people art and engineering, but we don't need to posit alien visitations in order to explain the feats of ancient people. Why posit pluralities unnecessarily? Or, as most would put it today, don't make any more assumptions than you have to. We can posit the ether to explain action at a distance, but we don't need ether to explain it, so why assume an ethereal ether?
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001
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