babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » great interview with unca Noam Chomsky on the democratic illusion!

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: great interview with unca Noam Chomsky on the democratic illusion!
cosmiccommunist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1933

posted 26 March 2003 03:17 PM      Profile for cosmiccommunist   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
check it out here:
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/sept96marrchomsky.htm

From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3808

posted 28 March 2003 08:55 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[...] ""the real genius of the modern system of thought control: it is very subtle, invisible and its greatest victims are often not the deceived but the deceivers themselves.""

and rabble.ca is PART of it! We are all dupes!

Chomsky again proves the occasional correlation between high-IQ and idiocy. Pathetic


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 28 March 2003 10:17 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Chomsky again proves the occasional correlation between high-IQ and idiocy. Pathetic

Actually, he hasn't. He missed it altogeher. However, thank you for picking up the slack and demonstrating, if not the occasional correlation between high-IQ and idiocy, then, at least, the constant correlation between trolls and idiocy.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2836

posted 28 March 2003 11:05 AM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
and rabble.ca is PART of it! We are all dupes!

The Revised Geneva Convention....

Article 1: *PLONK*

Article 2: See Article 1.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 28 March 2003 11:59 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's an interesting hatchet job on chomsky in this week's New Yorker. Amongst other things, they call him "Maoist" in his methods, but he comes out relatively unscathed from such an obviously hostile article. His mansion sounds a bit disappointing for an avowed oppressor of the masses.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595

posted 28 March 2003 12:20 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, the tag line is deceiving. It's NOT an interview, it's a description of an interview.
From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 28 March 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Amongst other things, they call him "Maoist" in his methods, but he comes out relatively unscathed from such an obviously hostile article.

In fairness, that slag didn't refer to his political methods (or ideas), but rather to the alleged cult of personality that supposedly prevailed in Chomskyan linguistics. About which -- linguistics, I mean -- I know not much more after reading the article than I did before.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 28 March 2003 02:47 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
True, but a real choice of words nonetheless.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 28 March 2003 04:36 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agreed. But I confess I'm no great fan of Chomsky's, regardlessly.

Edited to add:

I was waiting for some mention in that article of the "35,000 square foot house/four yachts/army of Nubian concubines" rumour, but was disappointed.

[ 28 March 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 569

posted 28 March 2003 04:54 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Again, for me, Chomsky mostly makes sense. Geneva suggests (above) that Chomsky is a high-IQ idiot because he points out that media discourse is limited. But my experience says that it is limited, because very few of the alternative explanations for events are presented in the manistream news. That does not make us "dupes" -- it makes us products of our environment. Why deny it?

[ 28 March 2003: Message edited by: verbatim ]


From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 28 March 2003 04:59 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regardlessly. You crack me up 'lance.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 28 March 2003 05:17 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, my dear Gaston, credit for the "army of Nubian concubines" line is yours.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 28 March 2003 10:02 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I was waiting for some mention in that article of the "35,000 square foot house/four yachts/army of Nubian concubines" rumour, but was disappointed.

Is this like the Michael Moore $500 a night and ordering around the help staff allegation?

Is there even any substantiated proof that Noam Chomsky bought himself a house that could garage four of my LTDs, or of the Michael Moore thing?

It's amazing the levels of character assassination the right wing will go to, and they have shown themselves in the past to be very unconcerned with the facts when it makes a good drive-by smear job.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 569

posted 28 March 2003 10:09 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Marx had a housekeeper, don'tcha know? That invalidates every single thing that he ever said or wrote.
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
fatcalf
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3859

posted 28 March 2003 10:33 PM      Profile for fatcalf        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As Neil Young said on his great album "Harvest" ...a man NEEDS a maid....
From: vancouver | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3393

posted 29 March 2003 12:22 AM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
There's an interesting hatchet job on chomsky in this week's New Yorker. Amongst other things, they call him "Maoist" in his methods, but he comes out relatively unscathed from such an obviously hostile article.

Really? I have never heard Chomsky suggests that the peasantry could be mobilized as a class to affect revolutionary change toward the creation of a communist society. How interesting.


From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 31 March 2003 05:42 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geneva's post represents a kind of propaganda which is actually discussed in the linked article:

quote:
We saw that journalists like Marr are intelligent, lucid and rational, but only within parameters that preclude a deeper understanding of what is really happening in the world. We saw how the illusion of media diversity is maintained by presenting superficial and trivialized versions of the true dissident position.

Chomsky's analysis of the illusion of media diversity is an utterly important one; for me, anyone who dismisses it as silly is saying more about himself or herself than about Chomsky.

Over the past fifty years, there has been a huge concentration of media in the hands of fewer and fewer multinational corporations; these give us basically the same semi-intelligent
analysis of everything, with little room for debate. In those cases in which I have been aware of detailed information about political events, I have been disappointed by the media spin, which seems always to suppose that authority has a valuable point to make. Often in fact, authority lies, or covers up, or twists the truth.

Example: does anyone remember the independent review of 9-11 which the US government promised? That review was generated by information that George Bush had been made aware that the World Trade Centre might be attacked by comandeered airliners. While obviously it is silly to suggest a conspiracy, I myself think that Bush was negligent in his duties as President; he may have poo-pooed the report, or cast it aside as unreliable. The point is, however, that we should KNOW how he responded to that report. We don't, and no one is pushing it. I think Chomsky has produced the best analysis as to why this is so.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
cosmiccommunist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1933

posted 01 April 2003 01:21 PM      Profile for cosmiccommunist   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Indeed. I think the thrust of the article went right over the heads of some. Nice to see people engaging with it, though.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boinker
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 664

posted 01 April 2003 11:40 PM      Profile for Boinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if Chomsky ever read Illusion and Reality by Christopher Caldwell, the Marxist scholar? It is a book about art and I think suggests that reality is little more than the edge of our illusions an dthat there is a dialectical relationship.

In this context the aberration of US Democracy is not that it has illusions but that they are not tempered with reality. Reality is simply obliterated and the illusion maintained.

I read the book thirty years ago and I hope I've remembered it correctly.


From: The Junction | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777

posted 02 April 2003 12:21 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well, Marx had a housekeeper, don'tcha know? That invalidates every single thing that he ever said or wrote.

Little bit of thread drift here...a Jamaican friend of mine said that having a housekeeper was quite common there amongst the "middle class"...and she said that in turn her housekeeper had a housekeeper!


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2230

posted 02 April 2003 12:24 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marx thought of himself as bourgeois rather than working class though his sympathies, obviously, were with the working class. This is somewhat more honest than some modern Marxists and anarchists who come from privledged backgrounds but pretend to be working class through and through. See Francis Wheen's excellent biography.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca