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Topic: To be (Jewish) or not to be
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brebis noire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7136
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posted 05 December 2005 02:53 PM
quote: Originally posted by lagatta: But I'd be creeped out too if someone asked me the question more than once.
I would, too. I know that people can be forgetful about things such as the exact country or province or city you are originally from, but in this case the answer is yes or no, and it's weird that the person would be 'very curious' and subsequently 'not remember.'
From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004
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the grey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3604
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posted 05 December 2005 03:05 PM
quote: Originally posted by brebis noire:
I would, too. I know that people can be forgetful about things such as the exact country or province or city you are originally from, but in this case the answer is yes or no, and it's weird that the person would be 'very curious' and subsequently 'not remember.'
But it also seems that the question wasn't answered "yes" or "no" the first time.
From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ichy Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10594
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posted 05 December 2005 03:08 PM
quote: Originally posted by brebis noire:
I would, too. I know that people can be forgetful about things such as the exact country or province or city you are originally from, but in this case the answer is yes or no, and it's weird that the person would be 'very curious' and subsequently 'not remember.'
My last name in the real world is the same as a Jewish family of some importance in Toronto. When I was young, we sat beside the other families in the Anglican Church, I had 7 years of perfect attendance, but we were always the "Jewish" family. Most people didn't seem to know what made people Jewish in the 1950's I guess. As I got older I often did busines with Jewish businessmen, and actually was pleased at the compliment. Given a choice I would have been Jewish in a second. Being gay made it not so much of a choice though.
From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 05 December 2005 03:09 PM
Yeah, I would find it kind of weird too. I wouldn't feel threatened by it, but I would think that if they asked you once already and you brushed the question off without answering one way or the other (that's the impression I got from the letter, although he or she doesn't say so specifically), that the person would take the hint.I don't know - can you see yourself going up to a co-worker and saying, "Hey, are you Jewish?" I mean, I have talked to co-workers about religion quite openly during my years of working in offices, but only if we're all just being chatty together anyhow, and it never comes up as a point-blank question - it's usually within the context of a conversation about an upcoming holiday or whatever. And usually people volunteer the information first. I don't know, I think it's weird.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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rsfarrell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7770
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posted 05 December 2005 03:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by Makwa: If anyone inquired of my religion out of the blue I would tell them it's none of their fucking business. Done.
Well, if anyone asked me, I'd hunt them down and run them over with my car. So there.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Dec 2004
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 05 December 2005 04:08 PM
Yeah, I got the context reading the letter, and it does seem my response would be myob. I'm just wondering if such a question can ever be a polite one, or if it is always nosy. Once, when I was wearing a keffiah (which was a present from a friend who had worked in an NGO in Israel/Palestinian territories) a man walked up to me in a downtown shopping area and started to yell at me about "what are you wearing that for, don't you know those people want to kill us" (I'm translating his words which were in French). By his statement, accent and manner, I think he was Sephardic Jewish (from the Maghreb) and he was accusing me of being a self-hating Jew! Weird. On the other hand, a very nice old (Jewish) man who had a little shop asked me if I was Jewish, and it was certainly not rude or intrusive. (I'm not Jewish, nor otherwise Semitic).
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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Weltschmerz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3713
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posted 05 December 2005 04:21 PM
I am not Jewish, except by marriage, but my wife likes to refer to me as an honorary Jew. She also is completely non-religious, but considers herself a "cultural" Jew.She has been asked about being Jewish more than a few times, often by the "I've never met a real Jew before!" type, but also by other Jewish people who are just curious. I know that the writer indicated that the co-worker was not Jewish. But sometimes it is just honest curiosity. It really does come down to the context and how it was asked. [ 05 December 2005: Message edited by: Weltschmerz ]
From: Trana | Registered: Feb 2003
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RP.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7424
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posted 05 December 2005 04:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by Makwa: Anyone who could ask such a stupid nosey question could never be a friend of mine.
I can instantly tell whether someone is African American with my amazing "Blackdar" quote: Last week, I was at the mall food court with my friend Demetrius. The two of us were just sitting there, having fun watching people walk past and trying to pick out who's black. As we're talking, this obviously white guy at the next table overhears us. So he turns to us and says, "How are you guys so good at that? Is it because you yourselves are black? Are you?" I just told him, hey, that's none of your business.
From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 05 December 2005 05:00 PM
andrean wrote: quote: I think questions like "are you Jewish (or whatever)?" are usually asked from one of two positions: either from an insider seeking to establish a cultural connection or from an outsider whose association with the group in question may be either benign or malevolent. It can be hard to know when the question is being asked which is occurring, and it's hard to know when it's safe to give a complete answer.
That is so well put. I think I shall just sit and admire it for a while. There was a time, not so long ago, when Jewish people in Canada understandably seized up at questions like that right away. Anyone my age - or auntie's - or older will remember. Even without openly discriminatory laws and regulations, there persisted well into, say, the 1960s considerable quiet, unofficial discrimination, and all the ugly osmosing superstition that goes along with it. I remember that. I've been marked by it. That's why I also like the way that auntie bats the question back right away. For a time, there was no other way to change things. We're here; we're human; get used to it. It works. Sort of. Slowly.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361
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posted 05 December 2005 05:05 PM
See, I don't think it is necessarily a stupid, nosy question. It can be but it can just as easily be an awkward attempt to create a connection. It's when you can't tell which it is that there's a problem.So, if someone says to me, "hey, are you a lesbian?", my affirmative answer could either elicit "you fucking dyke," which is not what I want to hear, or "oh, so am I and I belong to this great lesbian social group and every sunday we meet for tea and cakes...", which is something I might very well want to hear. The writer described feeling uncomfortable with the questioner's "moderately hostile tone", which I think Auntie overlooked in her response. If someone is asking about your cultural identity in a hostile way, then an equivocal response is appropriate, and if the inquiry (and the moderately hostile tone) persists, then advising one's supervisor might not be out of line. I think that was more the writer's concern, the tone of voice, rather than the specifics of being Jewish or not.
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001
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idontandwontevergolf
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4154
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posted 05 December 2005 06:39 PM
I agree with everyone who has mentioned that without the context it is difficult to comment but one cannot neglect the writer's concern over the coworker's hostile tone.A "culturally Jewish" (her term) friend of mine bristles when asked this question when religion is not being discussed. She is of a "certain age" and when she was in her teens and 20's the question often meant that she was going to be denied access to a place/institution or was going to be turfed from a job. Now, no one has ever asked me if I was a Protestant or Anglo, and I daresay that few WASPs are ever asked this question. This anecdotal information leads me to believe that the question when posed to non-WASPs is one where there is some underlying reason for the person's need to know that should at first be met with skepticism. A supervisor once said to me, "Oh, I didn't know you were Jewish". It turns out she had read the obituary of a close relative. I had taken the previous day off to go to his funeral. My relative's first name was Samuel. My surname's origin (it's not golf, by the way) is impossible for most people to pin down, though to some it may "sound" Jewish. (I have never met anyone outside of immediate family with the same name.) I was really put off by her comment and felt that her thinking that I was Jewish somehow put me in a different category and she would have to re-think all of her notions of me. She was, by the way, a twit in all respects. Had she read the obit fully, she would have noticed that the funeral service took place at an Anglican church.
From: Between two highways | Registered: May 2003
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Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718
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posted 08 December 2005 01:01 PM
Since so many people have dietary restrictions for all kinds of reasons, including religious ones, it's best to ask everyone if they have any, without assuming Muslims or Jews are more likely to have them than other people.Lots of people may well consider themselves to be practicing a religion without following its dietary restrictions.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ginger Jar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10992
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posted 08 December 2005 06:54 PM
quote: Well, if anyone asked me, I'd hunt them down and run them over with my car. So there.
Yeah? I'd chain them behind my pickup and drag them over a logging road to my fave greasy spoon where I'd contemplate their bloody stump through a table side window. Is that "Are you Jewish?" enough for you, pal? Ever since, I been the Champ.
From: green glen | Registered: Nov 2005
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rsfarrell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7770
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posted 08 December 2005 09:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by Ginger Jar:
Yeah? I'd chain them behind my pickup and drag them over a logging road to my fave greasy spoon where I'd contemplate their bloody stump through a table side window. Is that "Are you Jewish?" enough for you, pal? Ever since, I been the Champ.
Come now, Ginger, everybody knows that loudmouths like you drive Geos -- assuming your mommie lets you have a car. Overcompensate much?
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Dec 2004
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PEIguy
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10514
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posted 10 December 2005 07:40 AM
I really enjoy asking semi-personal questions of people. I love the reactions - some are fun, some are hostile, but all are interesting and usually lead to a conversation at one level or another. Folks should be proud of who and what they are and scream it out at every opportuinity.I guess my problem is that I am nothing. (Heavy sigh, here folks). A boring white guy who grew up in boring Toronto suburb and has a boring angl-saxon name and never attached to a religion and .... But seriously, I find the way people talk about themselves and their heritage greatly interesting, and if my questions offend, I expect to be told. Hopefully not, but what the hell.
From: PEI | Registered: Sep 2005
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Peech
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9272
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posted 10 December 2005 05:30 PM
quote: Originally posted by al-Qa'bong: People always ask me what "nationality" my last name is.When I tell them it's Arabic, they look at my waist, then move away in a hurry. Geez, haven't they ever seen a beer belly before?
That is the best one I heard in a while!! Thanks for that! Puts into humorous perspective.
From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005
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MartinArendt
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9723
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posted 10 December 2005 07:04 PM
quote: Originally posted by PEIguy:
I guess my problem is that I am nothing. (Heavy sigh, here folks). A boring white guy who grew up in boring Toronto suburb and has a boring angl-saxon name and never attached to a religion and ....
If people should be proud of their heritage, why aren't you? What I mean is, how are you "nothing"? Where are your folks from? What about your grand-parents? I don't like the idea of "white" being "neutral", and everything else being "exotic", or "cultural". Everybody has a culture of some kind. Even talking about "Canadian culture" implies something; maybe a collective of shared values, maybe not.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005
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Kassandra
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11267
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posted 13 December 2005 11:11 AM
All my life when people ask me "What are you?" I ask back,"Can't you tell?" No one has gotten it right yet. Reading the posts in this discussion reminds me that the sociobiologists are exactly right when they point out the genetically based obsession whith identifying with this or that group, gang, religion, tribe, family, nation, race, sexual orientaion, car make, sports team, political party, astrological sign, dietary preferance/avoidance/tolerance/intolerance, village, fetish, or.......whatever. We didn't gang together to avoid the lions a hundred thou ago; we did it to avoid being killed by other people...that we were roaming around trying to kill. We were and are wild animals and are and will be civilized animals. The struggle for human status is the struggle against the animal obsession that is displayed on this discussion board. By the way; what am I? Biggest, meanest , toughest gang of all. Human being.
From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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PEIguy
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10514
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posted 13 December 2005 11:36 AM
Sorry, I was MIA for a while.Actually I am from Toronto, parents from Guelph, mother's parents from Yorkshire, England, father's from the US of A. And I was actually just kidding around about being 'nothing', and I do not have low self-esteem. There are many government forms that I have filled out over the years that ask about one's heritage. I always found that an odd question to answer, because my answer is 'Canadian' and I seem to think they want more than that. But that's what I tell people - I am Canadian (and I like the beer too!).
From: PEI | Registered: Sep 2005
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LemonThriller
babbler
Babbler # 11085
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posted 14 December 2005 04:20 PM
Oh come on! Can't someone be curious anymore? I find it fascinating to hear about peoples' backgrounds, and I ask people about theirs all the time.Isn't it being a little prejudiced in assuming this guy has alterior motives? Granted, if he is coming of *really* creepy than I think it may be cause for concern, but not for hiding who you are. I think by hiding our identities, we end up stigmatizing them. Be proud of who you are, and when someone gives you a reason to feel harassed, fight back with everything you've got!
From: Halifax, N.S. | Registered: Nov 2005
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uh clem
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1078
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posted 29 January 2006 08:00 AM
My parents were Jewish and I was raised Jewish, but I never believed. So for years, I would answer, "No" to the question "Are you Jewish". (It came up a lot; I taught World Religions for 20 years, and it's a relevant question of one's teacher.) But after a few discussions with other non-blelieving Jews about what constitutes Judaism, I moved over to Auntie's view, and (in a very Jewish way) would answer the question with a question, "What do you mean by Jewish?" When they'd explained what they meant (usually religion or ethnicity) I could answer.These days I explain I'm a jpg, a Jewish Pagan. Close enough.... [ 29 January 2006: Message edited by: uh clem ] [ 29 January 2006: Message edited by: uh clem ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2001
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sidra
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11490
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posted 29 January 2006 08:23 AM
I really liked auntie's answer, especially the paranoia bit. Simple, pick one I am. I am not. I do not ask and I wish not to be asked such questions. I already told you I am. I already told you I am not. Supervisor? Complain? Some babblers added "creepy"? Get a grip folks. This is not Germany of the 1940's. My answers is usually "I am Canadian, I was born in ..... I go to (house of worship) once in a blue moon, marriage, funerals." I did in occasions answer "It doesn't matter". No creepiness that I have felt. No supervisor. No complaint. [ 29 January 2006: Message edited by: sidra ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718
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posted 29 January 2006 09:03 AM
quote: Originally posted by uh clem: These days I explain I'm a jpg
And being born to Jewish parents, I'm pretty sure we can guess what was lost in compression.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004
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cdnviking
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9661
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posted 29 January 2006 09:46 AM
I OBJECT to being asked my "religion".It seems that virtually every government form seems to have a box for that kind of question. My kids were born in a publically funded CATHOLIC hospital... my religion was queried. The census, which you are LEGALLY required to participate in (don't and you face a fine and/or imprisonment) has the question too. I ducked filling in the form and was HARRASSED by a civil servant, by phone, for weeks DEMANDING I take time to answer the telephone questionaire. I was told if I refused, I COULD BE ARRESTED, so I submitted, UNDER PROTEST. ANY question I REFUSED to answer (including religious affiliation), I WAS THREATENED with a fine if I didn't answer! I am not jewish. I am an atheist. I DON'T seem to fit into ANY category on the census that deals with RELIGION. I understand how some can be "creeped out", as I am if asked!
From: The Centre of the Universe, Ontario... Just kidding | Registered: Jun 2005
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Alan Avans
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7663
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posted 29 January 2006 10:52 AM
quote: Originally posted by fast_twitch_neurons: I personally find it is Jewish people who are more likely to ask me if I am Jewish or not...
Same here. My surname has been enough to bring forth the question, since there are some eastern European Jews with that surname....which in my case happens to be Welsh and a variant spelling of 'Evans.' Go grocery shopping and loadup on hummus, tahini and halvah and if the person checking you out is Jewish you're going to be asked if you're Jewish too. Almost guaranteed. I'm a Mormon boy, very southern, with a little Spanish, black and a big dollop of Native American thrown in. Not Jewish. But I am step-Jewish. My step-father is Jewish. I josh my mother about being her being his "shiksa."
From: Christian Democratic Union of USAmerica | Registered: Dec 2004
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Alan Avans
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7663
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posted 29 January 2006 02:09 PM
quote: Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Three Arab foods, by the way, which is odd.
Israelis think that stuff is really yum. So do Greeks, Turks, Armenians etc. Down here when you walk into the Kosher foods area, along with the Maniscewicz brand you'll find various Israeli brands of this and that and the other that both Israelis and Arabs know to be yummy. I suppose that Morroccan Jews eat like Morrocans still, and Yemeni Arab Jews still eat like Yemenis and so forth.
From: Christian Democratic Union of USAmerica | Registered: Dec 2004
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Alan Avans
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7663
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posted 29 January 2006 02:55 PM
quote: Originally posted by lagatta: Yecch, Manischewitz! (Thinking of those horrific so-called "wines" - by the way there are many quality wines that are kosher; no reason to drink that crap.) Indeed there is a growing trend to Sephardic and other Middle-Eastern foods, for reasons of health and flavour... Moroccan Jews always have eaten pretty much like Moroccan Muslims; the differences in the dietary laws in the Maghreb and the Middle East don't make for an entirely different culinary repertory, unlike Central and Eastern Europe where pork products held such an important place on the (goyish) table.
Well, Manny isn't just about wine, but yes, I agree, their wines are just a wee cut above Mad Dog 20/20 and Nyquil. They also do soups and broths. Chicken soup. Matzo ball soup. Potatoe Latkes. Crackers of all kinds. Shabbat candles. Hannukah gelt. Grape juice. Tea. An ok assortment of stuff to throw on the shelf.
From: Christian Democratic Union of USAmerica | Registered: Dec 2004
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uh clem
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1078
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posted 29 January 2006 03:41 PM
quote: Originally posted by lagatta: uh clem, is that Walter Benjamin in your blog profile? (Very interesting blog, by the way)... And do you speak German?
Nope, it's a photo of me, after my wife went photoshopping. And thank you for the kind compliment [/blush] My parents would never speak German (to us, to each other, to German tourists) while my brother and I were growing up, except that after we got fluent in French they'd use it to discuss things they didn't want us to understand. So I have a very minimal vocabulary, mostly involving either ice cream or toys. [ 29 January 2006: Message edited by: uh clem ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2001
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Serendipity
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10327
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posted 29 January 2006 10:56 PM
That's funny. A friend of mine, not openly Jewish or practicing, was approached on campus by an orthodox man, hoping to read him the moral of this week's parasha (which is sort of like the "Torah-chapter-of the week"). This man called out to him in a busy courtyard and asked: "EXCUSE ME! ARE YOU JEWISH?!"My friend glared at the man and screamed, even louder, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK I AM, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO BE HARRASSED IN THE STREET...FARSHTAIT???" Made my day. ETA for non-Jews: The humour is this situation comes from the fact that he actually confirmed his Jewishness by saying the word "farshtait" - the Yiddish equivalent of capisce?. [ 29 January 2006: Message edited by: Serendipity ]
From: montreal | Registered: Sep 2005
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the grey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3604
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posted 30 January 2006 10:12 AM
quote: Originally posted by cdnviking: I am not jewish. I am an atheist. I DON'T seem to fit into ANY category on the census that deals with RELIGION.
The census question on religion is a fill-in-the-blank, or a "no religion" tick box. Either "my religion is 'atheist'" or "i have no religion" should be "acceptable" answers to the census folks. Yeah, completing the census is mandatory. And it should be. But hopefully next time you won't get the long form (the short one doesn't ask about religion).
From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 30 January 2006 10:36 AM
Serendipity's story is hilarious!That (Lubavitscher proselytising) has happened to me; will have to remember that response... Now, to make sure I say it in Yiddish and not Hochdeutsch... ---- Edited to add: That said, I agree with Judy that "being Jewish" is not just a matter of religious faith: it can refer to ethnic identity (or "nationality" as Bundists and others would have called it in the days of the old Russian empire) - or perhaps even to being subject to persecution on that basis. Or is the latter letting one's persecutors define oneself? [ 30 January 2006: Message edited by: lagatta ]
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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who's tory now
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11934
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posted 31 January 2006 05:25 PM
quote: Originally posted by RealityBites:
And being born to Jewish parents, I'm pretty sure we can guess what was lost in compression.
No one ever asks me if I am Jewish, not suprisingly, as I am not born to Jewish parents,don't look Jewish, and don't have a Jewish sounding name.However,if there was a box for this somewhere, I would tick "Jewish by association,inclination, and possibly by previous life" The mother of my children, who I spent twenty years with is Jewish, which makes my children Jewish by Jewish law,by Hitler's laws,and probably by Hamas law as well.I spent six months in Israel, on a kibbutz ulpan program learning Hebrew. My grown children consider themselves Jewish, but not religious.
From: victoria | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308
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posted 01 February 2006 01:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by PEIguy:
I guess my problem is that I am nothing. (Heavy sigh, here folks). A boring white guy who grew up in boring Toronto suburb and has a boring anglo-saxon name and never attached to a religion and ....
Speaking as a partly Anglo Saxon, the Anglo-Saxons have lotsa interesting background, and that boring name may well mean something cool. Some of the dorkiest sounding names have cool meanings from Old English--both last and first names. Take "Egbert" for instance. It's from Old English meaning "edge-bright" and is a poetic reference to a sword blade. Who'd have thunk such a dorky name had such a hardass background? Beowulf, the Battle of Maldon, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and so on and so forth, all the way up to J.R.R. Tolkien make a rich cultural heritage, with unique poetic forms and interesting systems of imagery. Tolkien would claim that the Norse and Anglo-Saxons together developed the Northern Theory of Courage, deeply embedded in the myth system and stories of those people, which uniquely puts forward the ethic of standing for the right even if you know you're gonna lose and be killed, not just in this life but eternally. That is to say, monotheistic religious systems and some others put forth the ethic of courage because you know you'll go somewhere good afterwards if you follow the right path, so death doesn't matter. Some myth systems, like the Greek, mainly address different issues. But in the Norse/Saxon myth system, the gods themselves are gonna lose, and one of the major points is you have to back them anyway. Being right is enough, even in the face of doom. A very useful ethic for progressives, especially atheist ones. The Anglo-Saxon peasantry were traditionally some of the toughest, most independent peasants in the world, successfully building a common law tradition that culminated in the rise of democracy, in the teeth of Norman overlords who were determined to impose all-out top-down feudalism. Wat Tyler, the diggers, the chartist movement . . . I agree with MartinArendt: quote: I don't like the idea of "white" being "neutral", and everything else being "exotic", or "cultural". Everybody has a culture of some kind.
Anglo Saxons are just as exotic and cultural as any other group. They're not, or should not be, some kind of default background shmoo; it's simultaneously unfair to everyone else and unfair to them.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002
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eau
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10058
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posted 03 February 2006 01:56 PM
I would not be offended if someone asked me if I was a Christian, I am not..and if I was asking someone if they were Jewish it would probably have more to do with cooking than anything else. I have a great cookbook called the Jewish Womans Cookbook, and Im not Jewish either.I dont see any reason to be offended by the question.
From: BC | Registered: Aug 2005
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 06 February 2006 05:22 AM
Manischewitz wines have NOT existed for 4000 years, nor even 400. There are plenty of wines that follow kosher rules in the world that are perfectly drinkable, and some that are very good indeed. Here is a fact sheet on a kosher chardonnay from Fortrant de France, a winery in the south of France that produces affordable and decent wines, kosher and non-kosher. As you can see, the requirements of the kosher process might be of interest to some non-Jews as well, including vegetarians.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 06 February 2006 08:09 AM
Here are a couple of notes on the (colonialist) origins of frybread as a staple in the cuisines of some Amerindian peoples:Frybread - Native American culture Indian Country - giving up fat "Indian" food "Frybread was a gift of Western civilization from the days when Native people were removed from buffalo, elk, deer, salmon, turkey, corn, beans, squash, acorns, fruit, wild rice and other real food". Getting back to the original topic, is there Jewish fried bread? Or just latkes and other fried Chanukah foods?
Just thinking - I suppose Matzo brei would be the closest Jewish equivalent to fried bread. A way of making matzo somewhat palatable... [ 06 February 2006: Message edited by: lagatta ]
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 10 March 2006 09:30 PM
I got the "are you Jewish" question this afternoon on Plaza St-Hubert (not a typically "Jewish" area, though some shopkeepers are from the Middle East and North Africa, including Muslim Arabs and others, Christian Lebanese and Syrians, and Sephardic Jews. Three young men in black hats and coats (but without sidelocks) were passing out leaflets. They asked me, almost whispering, if I was Jewish, after eyeing me for an extended period. Since they definitely did not look like Nazi skinheads, I decided to have fun and tell a white lie: "Yes, but I'm an atheist". They said they were Lubavitchers and wished me a good day; I responded in kind.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441
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posted 13 March 2006 12:41 AM
I am not Jewish but I'm drawn to this discussion. My departed father who I loved dearly used to be a choirmaster in first Baptist, then Roman Catholic churches. He said more than once that if he had not been a Catholic, his next choice would have been to be a Jew. He was a sucker for liturgy and ceremony and a certain kind of integrity and spiritual beauty. The deeper significance of this topic is the issue it raises about raising the issue of ethnic/religious identity. An unfortunate side-effect of the identity politics we have seen so much of is an automatic defensiveness, paranoia even, when identity matters are raised. Once again, the Jews are well placed to show us how to deal with this problem with grace and humour, and will undoubtedly show the leadership they have evidenced in every important societal struggle of the last century. Rufus, your talk about the Norse origins of the concept of fighting for the right cause, even unto certain defeat, is important. This represents the beginnings of true existentialism.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004
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