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Author Topic: National Post attacks CJC for poverty stand
Jaku
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14801

posted 20 September 2008 09:29 AM      Profile for Jaku     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems that the National Post believes that poverty is not a Jewish issue;

National Post blog

Jonathan Kay seems to go so far as to suggest that since most Jews are rich why would they care about poverty.

The CJC responded strongly:

CJC response

I know the Post leans Tory but attacking CJC for targeting poverty? WOW!


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 20 September 2008 09:48 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here are some words I thought I'd never type: I'm with the CJC on this one.

And the National Post, talk about letting their pro-Tory bias make them look stupid!

Jonathan Kay, fyi, if the Liberals do get in, you have nothing to worry about. They are different from the Tories only that they invite people to talk about how horrible poverty is during pre-election vote-getting. If elected they won't actually do anything about poverty, so your tax dollars won't be wasted there. There, there. Feel better now, asshole?


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 20 September 2008 09:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jaku:
Jonathan Kay seems to go so far as to suggest that since most Jews are rich why would they care about poverty.

"Suggest"!? Jebus, he comes right out and says it!

quote:
Canada's Jewish community is among the nation's wealthiest demographics. So why, exactly, is Canada's umbrella group for Jewish organizations telling Jews that the number-one voting issue they face on October 14 is the creation of a "national poverty strategy"

Wow. You can bet if someone on the left said something like that, the National Post and every other news outlet in the country would have a hairy shitfit. (And rightfully so.)

I predict that there will be barely a ripple in this case.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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Babbler # 6640

posted 20 September 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I heard somewhere that Kay's professional background is in accountancy rather than journalism. I can definitely see that in his writing which seems devoid of any attempt at serious research or analysis.
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 20 September 2008 10:31 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jonathan Kay is an anti-semite. It is not surprising that he would attack Jews when they do something positive.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
just one of the concerned
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Babbler # 14896

posted 20 September 2008 10:58 AM      Profile for just one of the concerned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Jonathan Kay is an anti-semite. It is not surprising that he would attack Jews when they do something positive.

Someone should tell this jerk about the one in ten canadian jewish children who live in poverty and the monstrous rates in urban areas across canada and especially in BC where it is the worst. Or in single-mother Jewish families where the rate is 46%. I will write him actually. We keep on ignoring them because we have ourselves internalized these antisemitic myths and thats the most awful part.


From: in the cold outside of the cjc | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
just one of the concerned
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Babbler # 14896

posted 20 September 2008 11:17 AM      Profile for just one of the concerned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
BC continues to have the highest levels of poverty,
number of working poor and percentage of children
living below the poverty line of any province in
Canada. These levels are reflected in the Jewish com-
munity as well, due to the lack of affordable housing,
adequate working wages and the level of welfare ben-
efits - which do not reflect the real cost of living in our
province.

Jewish Family Services Agency

From: in the cold outside of the cjc | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 20 September 2008 11:26 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yipes, don't know how I missed this one!! And what is this BS about cjc only recently discovering the poverty issue? I recall going back to the early 1990s when Dr. Phil berger was Chair of the law and social policy committee. The main platform then was poverty.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
just one of the concerned
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Babbler # 14896

posted 20 September 2008 11:28 AM      Profile for just one of the concerned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
DRESSED in plain black clothes, with neatly cropped hair and an unsure smile, Hannah Rosen appears nervous. It’s very rare that people in the Jewish community talk openly about their poverty, but she’s determined to do exactly that.

For too long, she says, the Jewish poor have lived “behind closed doors”, and she wants the community to acknowledge their existence.


Ignored by our own everywhere in the diaspora

quote:
Steven Nasatir, JUF / Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago president, says one of every five Jews among Chicago's 270,000 Jews is poor or almost poor according to the federal government's definition. He says there are no figures for the general poverty rate among Jews in the United States, but according to the federations' umbrella organization, the UJC, 15 to 20 percent of American Jews are poor.

In fact, the Jewish poverty rate in the United States is higher than that in Israel. In Israel 24 percent of the population is considered poor, but about half is not Jewish.

New York also has a high rate of Jewish poverty. "Usually the words 'Jewish poverty" are seen as a contradiction in terms," says William Rapfogel, CEO of the Metropolitan Council on Jewish Poverty. "It's not. More than a quarter of the members of the world's richest Jewish community live close to the poverty line.


Despite conventional wisdom, poverty rate high in U.S..

[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: just one of the concerned ]


From: in the cold outside of the cjc | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Star Spangled Canadian
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Babbler # 15502

posted 22 September 2008 05:42 AM      Profile for Star Spangled Canadian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's a pretty massive gap between the more secular Jews and the Ultra-Orthodox. There's the stereotype that jews all live in Forest Hill and all work as doctors or lawyers or accountants but among the ultra-orthodox, there's incredible poverty because a)most do not go on to college or university which amkes finding a job with a high salary far more challenging; b) they tend to have very large families which stretches household budgets even further and c) virtually all of them will send their kids to private Jewish schools which can be very expensive and even more so if you've got a lot of kids.

Given that the ultra-orthodox are teh fastest growing segment of the Jewish population, it's only antural that the percentage of jewish poverty would go up dramatically as well.


From: Originally from Ontario, now in Virginia | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 22 September 2008 07:26 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Merkaz here could assure Jonathan Kay that there is a lot of poverty among Jewish people here in Montréal.

Not all is among the ultra-Orthodox by any means. Elderly people working hard in decades before the great access to higher education among Jewish people, immigrants from the former Soviet Union, some immigrants from the Middle East and elsewhere, and simply people who have fallen through the proverbial cracks...

As well as a kosher food bank, le Mercaz has what I believe is the only kosher soup kitchen in Canada; certainly in Québec.

It is not only racist, but very poor journalism to assert that because a given "community" (here defined through formal religious affiliation) might have a higher than average income, that there are no poor people among that community. No poor people in Alberta?

Or that people should only be concerned about "their own". That is an anti-semitic cliché, of course...

And yes, bizarre indeed to be agreeing with CJC!


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
genstrike
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posted 22 September 2008 09:18 AM      Profile for genstrike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't worry, Jonathan Kay isn't an anti-semite...

Well, he isn't JUST an anti-semite. He also thinks aboriginal people are alcoholics. http://tinyurl.com/3eoco4


From: winnipeg | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Star Spangled Canadian
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Babbler # 15502

posted 22 September 2008 09:36 AM      Profile for Star Spangled Canadian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
WOW. I mean, what the FUCK?

Lots of different groups hold rallies or request meetings with elected officials. Can you imagine her making this comment to representatives of any other group? If an environmental group wanted to hold a rally about Kyoto, would she feel the need to tell them not to show up drunk? If a labour union wanted to meet about a piece of legislation, would she feel it necessary to insist that they be sober? If the Canadian Cancer Society wanted to discuss funding for a cancer research centre, would it even occur to her that the representatives may show up to the meeting drunk?


From: Originally from Ontario, now in Virginia | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 22 September 2008 09:45 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In this case, at least one of the people had shown up at a recent meeting drunk.

So, is it alright to insist that people show up sober for future meeting, given a prior history of showing up not sober?


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
St. Paul's Progressive
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Babbler # 12621

posted 22 September 2008 10:34 AM      Profile for St. Paul's Progressive     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Star Spangled Canadian:
There's the stereotype that jews all live in Forest Hill and all work as doctors or lawyers or accountants

Well at least some of that is true in my case.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
St. Paul's Progressive
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Babbler # 12621

posted 22 September 2008 10:38 AM      Profile for St. Paul's Progressive     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Not all is among the ultra-Orthodox by any means. Elderly people working hard in decades before the great access to higher education among Jewish people, immigrants from the former Soviet Union, some immigrants from the Middle East and elsewhere, and simply people who have fallen through the proverbial cracks...

I'd say in Toronto a lot of the FSU immigrants, most of whom have very extensive educations, are underemployed and they're probably have the highest rate of poverty within the Jewish community.

Anyway good for Farber for writing this response to this idiotic comment by Jonathan Kay, who is feeding the old "rich Jews" stereotype who only care about their own pocketbook and Israel. I'd say Peter Kent would have come much closer in St. Paul's if that were the case.

While one can find many reasons to criticize Farber, he has always been very good on the issue of poverty.

[ 22 September 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]

[ 22 September 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ambrose
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15378

posted 28 September 2008 10:45 AM      Profile for Ambrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jaku: You would do well, in the future, to make the distinction between the views of a columnist and the views of a newspaper. The NP, for example, has frequently published articles by Buzz Hargrove (and other lefties) in the past!

Unionist: So you believe that Mr. Kay is an anti-semite now. Elsewhere, I seem to recall how you viewed the Asper-controlled NP as a Jewish rag (Re: Canwest vs. Briemberg). Interesting.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
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Babbler # 4901

posted 28 September 2008 10:50 AM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ambrose:
Elsewhere, I seem to recall how you viewed the Asper-controlled NP as a Jewish rag (Re: Canwest vs. Briemberg). Interesting.

If you "recall" it, why don't you show us rather than just engage in smears.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ambrose
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15378

posted 28 September 2008 02:40 PM      Profile for Ambrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, you're right m'Lord...this is definitely not the place for smears. Kay is a miserable anti-semite, no doubt about it. Here is even more evidence to support this fact:
http://www.omnivore.org/jon/orwell/2002/Honderrich/Honderich.htm

Your anti-smear radar appears to be faulty. Interesting.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 28 September 2008 03:03 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ambrose:
Unionist: So you believe that Mr. Kay is an anti-semite now. Elsewhere, I seem to recall how you viewed the Asper-controlled NP as a Jewish rag (Re: Canwest vs. Briemberg). Interesting.

Weren't you involved in kidnapping the Lindbergh baby? No, sorry, you helped Eichmann get his exit visa to South America?

I'm awfully sorry, my memory's going... something about child molestation? Help me out here for chrissakes...


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 28 September 2008 05:13 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi, moderator here.

Ambrose, don't accuse a babbler of something unless you can find a thread in which they are expressing the sentiment you're accusing them of. Proof of Kay's support for Israel doesn't do that.

unionist, if you can't say something nice.....

If this doesn't return to the lovely charming topic of the OP I'll have to close it. Which would be a shame. There are so few threads outside the "canadian politics" forum these days.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ambrose
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15378

posted 29 September 2008 08:05 AM      Profile for Ambrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unionist:

I have obviously mistaken you for some other, and for this, I apologize. You clearly do not view the National Post as a pro-semite rag. This much is evident by the fact that (as you point out) they employ in their ranks an anti-semite. Thanks for setting the record straight.

quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Jonathan Kay is an anti-semite. It is not surprising that he would attack Jews when they do something positive.

From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
St. Paul's Progressive
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Babbler # 12621

posted 29 September 2008 08:10 AM      Profile for St. Paul's Progressive     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think what unionist is getting at is that neoconservative Jews who think they have a monopoly in terms of determining what is and isn't anti-Semitism or support for Israel have no right to engage in stereotyping of the Jewish community and thinking their support for Israel makes them immune from criticism for doing so.

[ 29 September 2008: Message edited by: St. Paul's Progressive ]


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 29 September 2008 08:12 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They're obviously not looking for brownie points from anyone in power.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 29 September 2008 08:52 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ambrose: you made an honest mistake, you are forgiven. Sorry to all for choosing a sarcastic vehicle to respond.

St. P P, thank you for parsing my comment about Kay. You have captured my views well, but I did mean what I said. People who portray Jews in such a light are enemies of the Jewish people in my book, even if they happen to be Jews themselves.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
St. Paul's Progressive
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Babbler # 12621

posted 29 September 2008 09:34 AM      Profile for St. Paul's Progressive     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree - I care not a wit whether he is Jewish and that he is very pro-Israel - stereotyping "rich Jews" is unacceptable.
From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged

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