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BY RON HUTCHESON

Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - (KRT) - President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.

In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.

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Read it here.

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The conflict at the highest level of the Catholic Church about the truth of Darwin's theory of evolution breaks out publicly today.

Recent comments by a cardinal close to the Pope that random evolution was incompatible with belief in "God the creator" are fiercely assailed in today's edition of The Tablet, Britain's Catholic weekly, by the Vatican astronomer.

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This is an important article, I think.

This is a silly argument; a silly conflict.
The possibility of intelligent design does not contradict evolutionary theory; nor does evolution pose any threat to religious faith.

More, it's a disingenuous argument on the part of the religious. If they truly rejected Darwin's observations, they would also have to reject Mendel's; throw out selective breeding, and Cowboy George would look less than photogenic on a 2' tall five-toed horse.

The intelligence behind the whole shebang doesn't have to be one little tribal god who outgrew his home town and took over the Western hemisphere of one little planet on the outskirts of one little galaxy.
For example, the universe may be a giant brain, in which we are synapses.
Or every subatomic particle may have its own separate consciousness.
Or vastly more evolved beings than would deign to communicate with us may be controlling various parts of the universe, have their own society, and wonder who made them.
(Or, of course, Earth may be a computer, operated by mice and designed to come up with the answer 42.)

There are different ways to define intelligence, and different possible purposes for the actions of intelligent entities.

It's not an either This or That and nothing else question. It's a wide open What's The World All About question.
Evolutionary theory addresses a tiny, tiny fragment of that question, and it works within the framework in which it was conceived: life on Earth. Whether it works anywhere else in the unimaginably vast universe, we don't know, might not be able to find out, might not be allowed to find out.
What made the universe, where it came from and where it's going, we certainly won't find out - our life-span, both as individuals and as a species is too short.

We can't know everything... but, for heaven's sake, we can at least try to master our own language!

[ 06 August 2005: Message edited by: nonesuch ]

slate.msn.com/id/2122506/ - 31k - 4 Aug 2005

Its the fundamentalist protestants who are pushing "Intelligent Design" , a creationism belief opposed to evolution science. Contrary to what nonesuch and others may think, "Intelligent Design" is not sciene, it is an attack on evolution science.

It starts by characterizing evolutionary science as being based on pure accident or chance- ingoring or attcking all the science involved. "Intelligent Design' looks to what is found in nature and argues that it is so complex that it must have been "designed" by an "intelligent designer" i.e a creator.

The classical example they use is finding a watch in the middle of a forest. Who they say, would beleive the watch happened by accident-it must hae been designed/created. So if you find anyhting in a forest that you figure could not have happened by chance it must have been designed. Therefore there must be a god.

The agument is used for the beauty of a flower, a hummingbird flying or the birth of a baby. "Looks complicated, could not have happpened by chance, must have been designed, proves there is a creator." That may be fine if you choose to believe that, but belief in a god does not required an attack on science, an explanation of how flowers or hummingbirds evolved or how babies are born. That was ID does,it ignores or attack all attmepts at scientific explanation in attempts to leave only one answer for the world- a creator.

Look at all the books and articles by supporters of "Intelligent Design " and eevn the posts on rabble by supporters of "Intelligent Design"- all they do is attack scientific explantion. They keep coming up with how do you explain this and this and this- all these big complicated things. Surely they say these things could not have happened by chance, which is how they characterize evolution and science, random chance.

The only "idea" Intelligent Design has is to disprove scientific explanation and therefore say there must be a God.

Intelligent Design is a belief in God, not science, that boils down to an attack on science. It may be granted credibility as a belief,just as you can beleive Thor casts lightning bolts or Jesus is your savior. It can not be granted credibility as science.

[ 06 August 2005: Message edited by: peterjcassidy ]

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Its the fundamentalist protestants who are pushing "Intelligent Design" , a creationism belief opposed to evolution science. Contrary to what nonesuch and others may think, "Intelligent Design" is not sciene, it is an attack on evolution science.

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And that's the poverty of current thinking and media coverage. Everything is a debate; there are two sides to every story; you must present a balanced view. There are no facts.

The 'intelligent design' guy was kinda scary in a bland way. He seemed reasonable, not anti-science. Just wanting to present what he thought was a valid alternative view.

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Saturday, Aug. 6, 2005 Posted: 9:12:30AM EST

One of the world’s leading experts in origin of life research issued a statement on Friday saying that intelligent design should not be taught in schools because it is not science.

Dr. Fazale Rana, vice president for science apologetics of the organization Reasons to Believe, said in his statement, “As currently formulated, Intelligent Design is not science. It is not falsifiable and makes no predictions about future scientific discoveries.”

Dr. Rana further commented on the idea of teaching intelligent design in schools.

“As a biochemist, I am opposed to introducing any idea into the educational process that is scientifically ludicrous,” said Dr. Rana. “Proponents of Intelligent Design lose credibility, for instance, when they say that the Earth is thousands of years old when the scientific evidence and the fossil record clearly prove our Earth is at least 4.5 billion years.”

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"A leading Republican senator allied with the religious right differed on Thursday with President Bush's support for teaching an alternative to the theory of evolution known as "intelligent design."

Republican Sen. Rick Santorum, a possible 2008 presidential contender who faces a tough re-election fight next year in Pennsylvania, said intelligent design, which is backed by many religious conservatives, lacked scientific credibility and should not be taught in science classes.

Bush told reporters from Texas on Monday that "both sides" in the debate over intelligent design and evolution should be taught in schools "so people can understand what the debate is about."

"I think I would probably tailor that a little more than what the president has suggested," Santorum, the third-ranking Republican member of the U.S. Senate, told National Public Radio. "I'm not comfortable with intelligent design being taught in the science classroom"

First Tennessee Senator and prospective 2008 Presidential candidate came out for Stem Cell research and now little Ricky Santorum is opposing 'intelligent design'.

This is interesting, perhaps Republicans are afraid that the pro-business and pro-science wing of the party has finally started to have enough of the social conservatives.

[ 06 August 2005: Message edited by: Adam T ]

I really liked it, thogh. Maybe someone savvy could go there and paste it in here for babblers to enjoy?

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/Index.html

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Ecology

The environment affects the evolution of living things.
As predicted by evolutionary theory, populations evolve in response to their surroundings. In any ecosystem there are finite opportunities to make a living. Organisms either have the genetic tools to take advantage of those opportunities or they do not.

House sparrows arrived in North America from Europe in the nineteenth century. Since then, genetic variation within the population, and selection in various habitats, have allowed them to inhabit most of the continent. House sparrows in the north are larger and darker colored than those in the south. Darker colors absorb sunlight better than light colors and larger size allows less surface area per unit volume, thus reducing heat loss—both advantages in a cold climate. This is an example of natural selection acting upon a population, producing micro-evolution on a continental scale.

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The most eloquent documentation of ID’s religious inspiration comes in the form of a Discovery Institute strategic memo that made its way onto the Web in 1999: the “Wedge Document.” A broad attack on “scientific materialism,” the paper asserts that modern science has had “devastating” cultural consequences, such as the denial of objective moral standards and the undermining of religious belief. In contrast, the document states that ID “promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.” In order to achieve this objective, the ID movement will “function as a ‘wedge’” that will “split the trunk [of scientific materialism] … at its weakest points.”

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Originally posted by retread:
Personally I think intelligent design and creationism are a well designed plot to destroy American science, thus ending the danger of their completing their world-wide empire

You more or less have to dismantle physics, biology and geology for either ID or creationism to work. A single generation of it should more or less let everyone catch up and pass the US.

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I think we're well on our way, unfortunately.

Part of the problem as I see it, is the reluctance of many people to really blast ID for fear of being labeled "anti-Christian" or "anti-God" in the media or publicly.

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Personally I think intelligent design and creationism are a well designed plot to destroy American science, thus ending the danger of their completing their world-wide empire

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Originally posted by raccunk:
Interesting theory Retread. That is provided they don't manage to export intelligence design to the rest of the world first.

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Too late

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By David Wroe
Canberra
August 11, 2005

The Education Minister throws open debate on a thorny theory in schools.

The controversial theory of "intelligent design" has won the qualified backing of Education Minister Brendan Nelson, who says it should be taught in schools alongside evolution if that is the wish of parents.

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[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Snuckles ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
The theory of gravity is just a theory.

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The theory of gravity is just a theory.

In addition to teaching the theory of gravity, the schools should give equal time to the theory of Intelligent Attraction

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Why else would apples attack us? Or perhaps vases break on the ground?

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Originally posted by Raos:
Okay, is that sight serious, or a parody of the ludicrous aspects of ID?

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Anybody who read the asimov foundation books or watched the life of brian might get the idea that Christianity became the religion of the roman empire for over a thousand years because

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Christianity was not the religion of the Roman Empire "for over a thousand years".

Christianity was made LEGAL in the Roman Empire in 313 AD.

The Emperor Theodosius made Chistianity the OFFICIAL religion of the Empire in 380 AD.

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The Empire fell in 476 AD. It lasted 100 years after Christianity became its official religion.

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