a) If the other party asks me if he/she is being recorded, am I obligated to tell them?

b) If I lied to them and said no, can I still use the recording?

c) Is the law any different when the other party is your lawyer?

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=001069

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=320423

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.183.1.html

The case was about recording a conversation covertly - in a public place, in California.

The jury (or judge, it's been a while) found that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place. So that the incident was not "actionable".

quote:

---

Originally posted by wwSwimming:
There is a case that I found at the San Diego courthouse involving a police officer named Michael Gordon.

The case was about recording a conversation covertly - in a public place, in California.

The jury (or judge, it's been a while) found that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place. So that the incident was not "actionable".

The point being that the incident was treated differently because it occurred in a public place, not in a private telephone conversation.

---

Is Canada a one-party state? Since there are virtually no policy differences between the Conservatives and the Liberals, then yes, I guess you could say that's what Canada is.

Somehow I'm not sure that's where you're coming from though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigcitygal:
My radar is up and my spidey sense is tingling, but I'll answer your question, CountFrouFrou.

Is Canada a one-party state? Since there are virtually no policy differences between the Conservatives and the Liberals, then yes, I guess you could say that's what Canada is.

Somehow I'm not sure that's where you're coming from though.

In case you're leaving soon, I just want to say something nice: Love your handle!

---

LOL I must say that I am quite fond of my handle, too. Had it for years. Got it from Black Adder.

I guess, to simplify my question, I'll have to ask this: Can I use a taped recording I have between myself and my lawyer, even though she didn't know I was taping? And no, she didn't ask whether she was being taped. I was just curious.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CountFrouFrou:

LOL I must say that I am quite fond of my handle, too. Had it for years. Got it from Black Adder.

I guess, to simplify my question, I'll have to ask this: Can I use a taped recording I have between myself and my lawyer, even though she didn't know I was taping? And no, she didn't ask whether she was being taped. I was just curious.

Oh, and why is your spidey sense tingling?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElizaQ:

That would likely depend on what your using it for. If it's something legal consult an attorney.
If it's for something else 'public' be aware of defamation laws.
Beyond that, without knowing exactly what it is and not sure I want to know, it's difficult to give a definate answer.

---

For example, uttering a threat isn't actionable by the police unless it is recorded. So if someone calls you up to threaten you, and you're obligated to tell them you're recording, you're not going to get your evidence for the police and the person making the threat might be very serious (although some idiots have left threats on answering machines).

Likewise, what does the hidden camera of a reporter do if not, besides recording pictures, recording voices?

But don't take my word for it. Google is your fair weather friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
From my understanding, you do not need to inform anyone you are recording a conversation if you are party to the conversation.

[/URL]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CountFrouFrou:

Even if that someone is your lawyer, right? That is mostly my concern. Thank you for replying, btw.

---

There's nothing legal that says lawyers are exempt from the law.

quote:

---

Even if that someone is your lawyer, right? That is mostly my concern. Thank you for replying, btw.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElizaQ:

There's nothing legal that says lawyers are exempt from the law.

The only thing I could see there possibly be a problem is if you signed some sort of document before you spoke with them and in the fine print it says, "And thou shalt not record our conversations without my consent" I jest some, but you know how lawyers are.
If it's a private matter say a dispute about fees where the recording is some sort of proof of funny business then legal I can't see a problem. Might be kinda nasty though. I had a dispute with a smarmy boss once which came to the point where a couple of us were planning on recording what he was actually telling us in order to prove to his boss what he was doing. He ended up being fired suddenly for an entirely different matter so we didn't actually do it. Would have had no problem doing it though.
If it is a dispute that you intend to make public then I'd be more careful about potentially having them come back at you for defamation.

---

Thank you and FM. Don't know if you lot really want to know this but, the whole matter is about her reneging on a verbal agreement we had on her fees. She now conveniently does not recall the conversation. Luckily, I taped it.

Maybe the more pertinent question is whether she is legally bound to adhere to the verbal agreement she made with you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jas:

Not sure what the repeated references to Canada being a "one-party state" have to do with anything.[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jas:
What prescience (to put it politely) to secretly record one of your initial consultations with a professional from whom you were presumably seeking help. Was it not possible to get her fees in writing?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CountFrouFrou:

The recording was not made at the initial consultation. And no, she was reluctant to put it in writing, for what is now obvious reasons.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
Actually, I was thinking of recording a conversation with someone on my own phone without their knowledge and using it in court. Is this legal?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:

You need to complain to the law society in the province if you think there is a problem. Your relationship was covered by solicitor client privilege which means she can't say anything about your conversations but you are free to say what you want, subject to defamation laws.

---

I know for a fact that she has talked about my case with someone else, but I can't prove it. She is very careful and arrogant.

Defamation laws only apply if I lie, right? Like if I say to someone that my lawyer lied to me when she didn't?

quote:

---

Originally posted by CountFrouFrou:
While I understand that one can record a conversation with another party as long as one has knowledge and/or consents to it, I have the following questions:

a) If the other party asks me if he/she is being recorded, am I obligated to tell them?

b) If I lied to them and said no, can I still use the recording?

c) Is the law any different when the other party is your lawyer?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wilf Day:

Just because it's not a crime under s. 184 of the Criminal Code (assuming you are not recording something obscene) does not make it legal in all other senses.

For example, if someone asks if you are recording them, you lie, and they rely on your lie, will you be estopped from using the fraudulently obtained recording? Perhaps so. Especially if it is someone to whom you owe a duty of good faith.

---

[/B][B]"While I understand that one can record a conversation with another party as long as one has knowledge and/or consents to it, I have the following questions:
a) If the other party asks me if he/she is being recorded, am I obligated to tell them?

b) If I lied to them and said no, can I still use the recording?

c) Is the law any different when the other party is your lawyer?

Thank you very much."

quote:

---

For example, if someone asks if you are recording them, you lie, and they rely on your lie, will you be estopped from using the fraudulently obtained recording? Perhaps so. Especially if it is someone to whom you owe a duty of good faith.

---

But *sigh* I can't remember the freakin' details.

The upshot was though that a person who felt he was missrepresented by his lawyer (or, it could have been a group) decided to go the private prosecution route instead of complaining to the Law Society of Upper Canada.

Does this ring a bell with anyone? It might be instructive to the Count, and, I wouldn't mind trying to find out where that all sits at the moment.

Just did some googling, but nothing that came up rang a bell.

[ 04 October 2008: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]

I once was in an unpleasant situation with a lawyer handling my mother-in-law's estate. He attempted to charge both legal fees and the bulk of the executor fees, even though we did all of the executor-type work.

The Law Society couldn't care less. But we had another lawyer (senior partner at a respected firm, a Q.C.) write to the first lawyer and he turned him around in a hurry. It's a shame when professionals treat other professionals better than they treat their clients but that is often the way it is.

quote:

---

Originally posted by G. Pie:

As for the Count's problem, I'd suggest him telling his lawyer what he's got on tape. That should resolve the problem in a hurry.

---

Oh, I've told her and, it wasn't until then that she did her job properly. Sad.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by CountFrouFrou:
I know for a fact that she has talked about my case with someone else, but I can't prove it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sean in Ottawa:
I'll take a shot at the third part of your question since that is the part that interests me:
I'd be careful on two counts: If you mean use in a legal sense-- it may be considered unethical and that in itself does not mean illegal since one party to the conversation -- you-- consented. The problem is that a lawyer in the form of a judge is going to pass judgment over you and the fact that you recorded a lawyer without agreement may be a big negative. On the other hand you could quote and only pull it out if/once the lawyer denied it and then that would be to prove essentially perjury -- something courts especially don't want to see from lawyers.

The second reason for caution is more complicated. Lawyer-client conversations are privileged. There are many cases where people have wanted to use somethign but once they open the door they cannot control what else walks through that-- there could be other prejudicial stuff in there you don't want out yet the court could decide -- well you opened the door. So be careful of the context.

---

Thank you, Sean, for your input. In a nutshell, my lawyer and I had a verbal payment agreement initially. Then, when I confronted her with her unethical behaviour, i.e. discussing my case with someone other than myself, she got defensive and tried to revoke that very verbal agreement. I played nice and got her to repeat it, only this time I recorded it. I figured it was only fair.

As to your second paragraph, I really have nothing to hide so she can present what she wants in court or wherever. All I want is for her to live up to our agreement and stop violating my rights.

quote:

---

Originally posted by G. Pie:

How do you know this? And who was the someone? Another lawyer in her firm? An outsider? Is the proof in the recorded conversation? If so, I'm sure the Law Society would be interested.

---

I know this because I was told by this someone. The someone is my partner's parents. It's a long story but I'll try to cut it short: Both my partner and my lawyer are of Italian descent. According to them, it's the Italian way. Therefore, just because it's in the family, she can talk freely about my case with my partner's family, which is completely absurd!

No,there is no proof of it in the recorded conversation. The only proof I have are conversations between my partner and her mother. Needless to say, my partner is loathe to put her parents in that situation, given that they are already furious with her.

However, there have been other things that my lawyer did, which I can complain about. I am seriously thinking about that right about now....

[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: CountFrouFrou ]