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Author Topic: cynicism=apathy=corruption in perpetuity
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 11:31 AM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So again, I watched a movie last night. This time it was Bulworth. It was good--entertaining, a little inspiring, and pretty refreshing (especially because Warren Beatty wrote and directed it all himself). My BF watched it back when it was new, and had a pretty strong reaction to it, and felt, as surely many viewers did that "finally, it's out in the open how crooked politics really are"...

But it's been out for 6 years, and we all know that everything Beatty's senator went off about in his delerium is true and real, and really does effect the lives of actual people. (and why is it that he had to crack up in order to do it? Only a crazy person would reveal the truth behind "democracy" in a Capitalist society) There was even some really good critical analysis of why and what happened, and how to improve these situations...and nothing has come of it.

Just like nothing came from the Enron expose, or any other individual instance of proven corruption reaching from the private sector to the public, to our government--our decision and policy makers, our providers and protectors...

So what is it? Are we all so cynical that we've cynicked ourselves out of even hoping it'll change? Have we just been downtrodden and screwed over so many times that we think there's no recourse, no way to ever do anything about it? Have we completely lost the taste for revolution, reorganization, and regeneration?

What's up with us?


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 07 October 2003 11:59 AM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, LB, I had exactly the same thoughts, not only about that movie -though I've seen it three times and had the same thoughts as those you put in your post each time- but about the fact that Stupid White Men has been on the Globe'n'Mail's and Maclean's Top Ten non-fiction lists for over a year now. This Hour Has 22 Minutes is admirably subversive. Bertolt Brecht, Charles Dickens, Gore Vidal, Noam Chomsky, Henrik Ibsen ( I'm sure the legion of better-read babblers than I could list hundreds more) have all, in their various media, warned us of what's developing in our Western cultural/political system, and we don't care.

I conclude that Art has become a powerless diversion with no influence and no role but to entertain, amuse.

I think skdadl is right when she characterizes our age ( after Northrop Frye) as satirical/ironic: we would rather laugh than cry. We enjoy feeling smug and superior that we know what's going on, but are too cool or apathetic to adopt some real values to help us fight for human dignity (ours included).
We're saturated with the smirks of knowing celebrity poseurs who tell us they're cool enough to know that you can't beat 'em, so you might as well join them, or there'll be no scraps for you at the master's table.

Hey! we know it's a scam, and we're just savvy enough to grab the big scraps while the real losers think they're gonna change things by boycotting the table.

Hee hee. Losers funny!

I wonder if it is possible to climb out of a satirical/ironic age without a precipitating cataclysm or global catatrophe.

[ 07 October 2003: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 12:22 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is it because we've been so overwhelmingly indoctrinated with the 'every man for himself, up by his own bootstraps' myth? Are we just thankful that we're better off than the other guy, so there's no sense in rocking the boat?

quote:
I conclude that Art has become a powerless diversion with no influence and no role but to entertain, amuse.

It's not just art, though, is it Sisyphus? Seems like everything from the work we do, to the things we buy, and all the things we choose to do with our spare time (what little we have when we're done scrambling for our scraps of survival), is all just distraction from the reality of our state, our government, and our impending doom.

What would or could we be doing if we weren't distracted thus?


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 October 2003 12:38 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
We enjoy feeling smug and superior that we know what's going on, but are too cool or apathetic to adopt some real values to help us fight for human dignity (ours included).
Or burnt out. That's my lame excuse for buying into the age of satire/irony. That and the head injuries sustained from repeatedly banging it against a wall. It's not like I've lost hope, or enthusiasm for change. Not at all. But I've lost energy and creativity over a period of years, for sure. Anyone else out there struggling to politically rejeuvenate?

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 07 October 2003 12:45 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those are good, BIG questions. No it's not just art, it's Communities of all types.

I think you're right that the Libertarian ideals that underpin a lot of the justifications for what I like to call "fuck you capitalism" have poisoned a lot of North American society with a romantic isolationist ideal. When Maggie Thatcher said that there is no such thing as society, I think she was hoping that she was making a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The recent Ontario election made me think about it, because I have friends who are generous, helpful people, who think the Tories were "doing a good job". These are the sorts of people (middle or lower/middle class) who give to charity, help their neighbours financially and with their time, who resent "the poor" from an ideological perspective, yet actually help people in trouble.

Their acts betray their ideology, yet they have adopted the ideology. They support their communities, yet are suspicious of Community.

This is a subtle part of my own disaffection with partisan politics.

I don't really have answers (and I mean ANY answers; certainly not THE answers) to any of these questions, just a bunch of observations that I try to cobble together now and again.


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 07 October 2003 12:45 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With you all the way, Rebecca. My usual explanation is that I've been an activist since approximately age six, and approximately thirty years later I'm just so tired. Things change, but the pace is so glacially slow it's frustrating beyond belief. You keep on rollin' that old rock up that old hill, and I swear it gets heavier every time...

I don't think self-satisfaction is the only cause of cynical apathy. In the US at least, I put a lot of it down to despair. There was quite an upswing in hopeful feeling prior to the Iraq war, as people really started to mobilize... and then the swiftness, brutality and, especially, evident inevitability of the invasion hit everyone like a crushing blow. Caring too much, in a word, hurts. Ergo...


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In the US at least, I put a lot of it down to despair. There was quite an upswing in hopeful feeling prior to the Iraq war, as people really started to mobilize... and then the swiftness, brutality and, especially, evident inevitability of the invasion hit everyone like a crushing blow. Caring too much, in a word, hurts. Ergo...

I agree with this. I think we've been made to feel hopeless and frustrated, and ultimately completely powerless to change anything. The very fact that these crimes of corruption, human rights violations, and other total atrocities are so much out in the open with no reaction, or rather with no action taken makes it feel as though 'those guys' are impenetrable and impervious and completely safe in their corruption.

We see them getting away with all this shit and look around for someone to do something about it, but there's just a bunch more of 'us' also looking around, and most of us are just shaking our heads, shrugging our shoulders, and perhaps shedding a tear or two for the hopelessness of it all. All the folks we would expect to have the power to do something turn out to be 'those guys' anyway, so they're really not interested in taking them down.

Also, I guess it doesn't help much that these days any one of us who charges forth with accusations or demands or even the least bit of real resistance or anger is shot down and trampled by 'those guys'...

Makes me wonder if we can't take them on in some other way. Maybe our strategies for activism are outdated, outmoded? Maybe we need our own campaign of shock and awe...

[ 07 October 2003: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 07 October 2003 12:59 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't mean to suggest that self-satisfaction was the only cause of apathy.
I take it as a truism that the most cynical among us are bone-tired, disillusioned former idealists.
Sometimes, we need to withdraw from the fray and focus on the the mundane details of our own individual circumstances.
Sisyphus can't stop, but there's no reason why he can't dawdle a bit on the way back down the hill.

From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 07 October 2003 01:06 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AF, I like your sisyphusian methaphor. I like to think that I'm having a bit of a rest at the bottom of the hill, leaning my back against the Big Rock having a smoke, waiting for a second wind before I try rolling the fucker back up the hill again. I don't know. Maybe there is no second wind and I'm sidelined for good. I hope not...

I can sure see why USians would be frightened into apathy or isolationism - they're under attack and they're being led by a bunch of corrupt, self-serving assholes who only know how to escallate ruinous conflict, not resolve problems. And in between them and their so-called leaders are a pack of jackals who take every opportunity to cash in on their fear and feelings of helplessness. I'm referring to CNN, NBC, Fox, the New York Times, etc.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 07 October 2003 02:17 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I realise that it's a BIG hill and a really big slippery rock, BUT, I still have faith that things can change.

Things are changing in Canada, slowly, but, this is the speed of things when one has an elected government. Only dictatorships and military coups do things swiftly. Really, Canada is doing pretty well. We have some major problems, like the threat of private healthcare, lack of affordable housing and an increasing shortage in tradespeople, but, all in all, we're doing pretty well.

It could and should be better, however. We pay sky-high taxes and should by all accounts be living in a socialist paradise, like Norway, but, our money is being wasted by corrupt folks at the top and plenty of others sucking it for all it's worth. We also lack federal infrastructure and a unified vision.

There's plenty to fight for, and we MUST encourage everyone to get involved. Voter turnout just over 50% in Canada's largest province is despicable.

After working on the Hill for a couple of years I've learned a lot of things.

1) Your Member of Parliament has no way to to represent you other than through 90 second statements that nobody listens to, and Private Member's Bills which are never passed into law.... unless your name is Svend.

2) Liberal Party politics and bureaucrats run the entire country. If you don't work your way through the party system, you will never have a voice in the House of Commons, and you will not be represented. If you don't have good bureaucrats, nothing works.

3) The most important work takes place in committees. But, the vast majority of folks have no idea what an HOC or Senate committee really is or what they do. AND, even if all sides of the House work together, listen to all kinds of experts and Joe Canadians and give input into the BEST possible legislation or reports, it can all be ignored or erased by the Prime Minister.

4) We don't actually live in a Parliamentry Democracy, we live in a Constitutional Democracy. The final say rests with the Supreme Court, not elected officials. Technically the Nothwithstanding Clause could be used, but, it never is.


Now, after seeing both sides of the issue, (I worked as a reporter for two years prior to the Hill) I realise that direct democracy has major problems, see California. However, I also realise that Canadians feel like they aren't being heard, and that time and money are wasted on duplicate studies and Royal Commissions, see Romanow et al.

There must be a way that we as Canadians can have a stronger voice in our federal government, while not falling victim to divisive referendums and the tyranny of the majority.

The first thing I would suggest doing is JOIN A PARTY. Any or all of them. Organize meetings in your riding and go to conventions. Put ideas forth and have them discussed. You can still march and throw teddy bears, but, you can effect more change from the inside.

The States? I feel very sad for that country, and wouldn't know where to start.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 02:22 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I can sure see why USians would be frightened into apathy or isolationism

But is this sort of understanding not just more of the same, when it comes to our inaction, and the perpetuity of corruption?

Yes, it's understandable, and really very logical, but doesn't that just mean that we're losing? If we can explain why we do nothing even though it's very clear that something should be done, does that change the fact that we're not doing anything?

And then I wonder if we can even blame ourselves, because in real, material terms, we really are quite powerless...

It's just really frustrating and distressing. I can't help but think there must be something that we can do to change all this bullshit, but around every corner there's another obstacle. That brick wall is always and ever just inches from the proverbial forehead, I guess.

[ 07 October 2003: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 07 October 2003 02:30 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
See above.

Join a federal and provincial party, attend city council meetings, attend school board meetings, ask that "civics" be taught to your children in school, then follow up with them by taking them along to these party meetings and councils.

Write letters to the editor, READ reports that come out of committee, TELL others about it, write to your MP, MPPs, MLAs and councillors -REGULARLY.

Join local organizations like Streamkeepers, the Boys and Girls clubs, Scouts, volunteer at shelters, organize a litter pick up day, etc etc.

There are many ways for us to be involved in Canada. We must encourage all to do these things.

If we don't participate in the teeny bit of democracy and say that we DO have, how on Earth are we to get MORE of a say?

Frankly, I don't want Joe and Sally Canadian making my decisions for me. Over 70% of them didn't know who the frigging Finance Minister was in 2001 and plenty don't even bother to vote.

IF, they were more involved and up-to-speed on what's going on and how things work, then I'd be comfortable with more involvement.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 02:48 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that's all part of it, and those are really important things to do. It would be fantastic if Canadians followed politics the way we do the various televised distractions at our fingertips. And I agree that it has to start with interested and passionate individuals changing their own lives first.

Will this kind of community involvement and political awareness address things like Paul Martin's most obvious conflict-of-interest-bordering-on-actual-criminal-activity and prevent him from becoming prime minister, though? Is it going to do anything about crooked backroom deals between politicians and bank/insurance/oil companies? Is it really going to help when they've got a welfare/healthcare/social housing reform bill on the table and none of us even get to read it, never mind vote on it or have any significant influence on the way "our" representative votes? What about the fact that we can't do anything to recall new legislations/policies if we don't like them or if they turn out to work to the detriment of an overwhelming number of us?

I guess the hopelessness has really gotten to me. I can't see any way out except to explode the works and start over from the ground up.


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
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posted 07 October 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cheer up, Lima Bean.

The thing is, on the largest, longest scales - which are what really counts - we are not losing. We are, in fact, winning quite a lot. Think back to the 1980's (if you're my age, anyhow) and compare the world now to the world then. The change is remarkable.

The nations of the world actually got together to hold themselves and each other accountable in an International Criminal Court. Yes, it's early days yet, but...! That's freaking' unheard of. And it's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the growing body of international law. The day is coming when no one, not even heads of state, will act with impunity. And it's coming on faster than ever I expected.

I grew up in the 1970's knowing that the dictators of Latin America, protected by the US, would never have to face justice. Now I see a Pinochet dragged to trial, even if he did plead senility. A US Secretary of State publically admits US involvement in Allende's overthrow. The Argentinian death-machine has been exposed, and some of its generals even facing prison terms. Henry Kissenger can't go to Brazil for fear of being "detained for questioning". Holy shite, says I. So much for impunity.

When I was growing up, it was a really good day if you got 10% of the U.S. population behind you on any leftist issue. Now the numbers are more like 30%, 40%, 50%... and the definition of 'leftist' itself has started creeping back leftward of late. We were lucky to get 300 people in DC to protest the invasion of Grenada. We had hundreds of thousands for Iraq. Maybe millions. For a place they weren't going to be drafted for, either, unlike Vietnam.

These days, the man in the street thinks unregulated free markets are not a cure-all - even if he hasn't watched what's happened to Argentina, he knows damn well his job's off and gone to Mexico, or India, or Singapore. You don't have to tell him we need universal healthcare - he's already convinced of that. That's half the job right there. Before I kvetch about the other half - actually doing something about it - I gotta step back and remember when "socialized medicine" was a curse word.

Who is it here who has the slogan, "We may not convince you, but we'll cconvince your children"? It is, I think, very true. Not all the children, but enough to dramatically change things in our own lifetimes. It's just the day-to-day changes that seem so small, and so easily rolled back. On scales of decades, the progress has been actually pretty relentless.

Maybe it's not as far as we wanted it to be, sure. But when you think about it, some of it is downright stunning. From gay-bashing to gay marriages in a generation? A united Europe??? Whoa. Sure, we're still worried about poisoning the planet, but remember - thirty years ago it seemed likely that the planet wouldn't survive long enough for such long-term problems to have any effect. We'd all be nuked before then. Still a possibility, but increasingly remote.

And ironically, even Bush in his back-assward way, may have helped that along - by seizing on the excuse of "Weapons of Mass Destruction", he's inadvertantly associated such things, in the minds of US citizens with horror and loathing. In the long run, that may make a lot of difference when it comes to the next round of treaties for control of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons.

So there's not only hope, there's visible change. That's a cheerful thought, isn't it? Every debate, march, scientific study, educational program, website, organization... creates ripples which buld up over time to reshape the way the world thinks about things, and therefore what they do about them.

It's just - if you're like me - sometimes you get sick of making bloody ripples and would like to see a serious splash for a change. Hey, you never know. The war with Iraq made waves that are still, er, waving... it may be that the backlash from that will leap forward progress dramatically, if we seize the moment.

OK, I've now used up my month's supply of optimism. And a year's worth of preachiness, for which I beg y'all's pardon.


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 07 October 2003 03:12 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Will this kind of community involvement and political awareness address things like Paul Martin's most obvious conflict-of-interest-bordering-on-actual-criminal-activity and prevent him from becoming prime minister, though?

No, but if we all started now, and raised a generation of involved citizens instead of a bunch of TV watchers, we can prevent it happening again in another 15 to 25 years.

Deocracies are hard to build from the ground up, it takes generations of work and often bloodshed. We DO have a system right now that could be used and THEN improved upon.

Actually getting into the old Chevrolet sitting in the yard, looking under the hood, driving it, and making repairs and upgrades to it is certainly a hell of a lot easier and more sensible than trying to build a new one.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 07 October 2003 03:22 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the head-shaking, dudes!

It is awfully easy to twirl myself up into a tizzy over these things. I guess the thing is to not lose all perspective.

Patience, persistence, education, and dilligence, I guess. It's getting better, you say. And I do believe it, but it's sure taking a long time.


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 07 October 2003 03:29 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Patience, Young Jedi.

Really, I do think it's getting much better. I am alarmed at some of the habits we as a society are developing, (the apathy and political ignorance) but, I'm still optimistic.

It's just that diligence, patience, education, READING, and persistence isn't very exciting.... but it certainly does pay off.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged

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