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Topic: Did America give birth to modern Socialism?
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The Libertarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3365
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posted 27 November 2002 02:01 AM
In the post WWII era history was marked by a long detente between the Marxist-Leninist USSR (or CCCP, if you prefer) commonly referred to as THE Cold War. Also inthe Post WWII era non-Soviet occupied Europe ( and i suppose Eastern Europe as well) suffered from a long economically depressive (terminology?) period wherein spending was kept low in both the private and public Sector. In the US's desire to stem the tide of Communism (granted it wasnt true ideological Communism) the US instituted the Marshal plan to aid teh ailing Economies of a war wracked Europe and continued to invest in the Military-Industrial complex in an arms race with the Soviets and in hopes of breaking thier tyrannical hold over Russia and its territorial spoils of war.The Marshall Plan...and its derived World Bank and International Monetary Fund helped to stem the advance of international soviet style communism in Western Europe. The growth of the Defense industry directly following WWII and the desire to defend European Allies from an encroaching Imperial power led to the placement of missile systems in Europe and the subsumation of soveriegn defense industries. in the US's zeal to aid its allies Europe reduced defense spending to around 1% of GDP where as the US, eager to aid its allies, was at 3% and up. This led to Europe not needing to spend money on defense from an obvioulsy expansive power. While taxes were still collected there was no large defense budget to eat it up. The continued taxation coupled with loans and grants led a glut of state held money wit nobudget to spend it on. It is my belief that this led to the development of Social programs such as CAP and others giving birth to a more benevolent form of socialism than we saw in the old USSR. Wihtout the US desire to defned its Allies, rebuild Europe, and obstruct our ideological enemy ( boy, i sound like Hitler there!) we unintentionally created a breeding grond for the spectre of socialism to rise again. And this socialism is spreading. Already the US and Canadian liberal-left parties look to Europe as models for governance and tax structure. Any ideas? Am i way off base?
From: OK, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 27 November 2002 12:50 PM
Actually, I think Libertarian is on to something here (and not just in his thinking that he sounds like Hitler).Of course there were socialist programmes well before the Cold War. Bismark was one, but there were also reasonable programmes in Scandinavia and in some of Latin America. But I do think that the US tolerated social democratic programmes as part of its attempt to win and keep allies in its struggle with Communism. That struggle began in the 1920's or 30's at the latest, and the wiser capitalists supported the New Deal as a way to combat socialist tendencies in the US itself. With the collapse of the USSR, there is now less reason to require "capitalism with a human face". Thus, following the defeat of the USSR, we began to be told that we "cannot afford" those programmes, and there was substantial retrenchment. The real struggle today is to prevent the return of Dickensian capitalism of the sort libertarians prefer.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490
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posted 27 November 2002 01:12 PM
quote: But I do think that the US tolerated social democratic programmes as part of its attempt to win and keep allies in its struggle with Communism. That struggle began in the 1920's or 30's at the latest, and the wiser capitalists supported the New Deal as a way to combat socialist tendencies in the US itself.
And it is largely true that the USA drifted somewhat into socialism (as socialist as it's ever been) through the 1950s and 1960s, and to some extent even the 1970s and 1980s, in order to ensure that not too many people saw the attraction in Communism. We may recall that even in the inflationary 1970s, Social Security and Medicare were indexed to the inflation rate (never mind what this would cost the government), and Ronald Reagan, for all his rhetoric about downsizing government, never once dared touch the "third rail" of US politics, Social Security. It has really only been since the 1990s that capitalism only has, as it did in the 1800s, to deliver the goods to them that already has a lot of them.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001
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