babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » Tinfoil time?

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Tinfoil time?
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 26 November 2002 08:04 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I happen to be one who doubts. Always have. Even when *flotsom* was little he'd often guage a man like he was some frontier gunslinger; he'd fix his flinty glare, locking onto the eyes of the mailman, whoever, searching out the lie. It could be said that I doubt even the doubts, if you get my meaning. Well, you might have already deduced the subject of this thread by it's title. That's right: Conspiracy theories.

I can think of few subjects that provoke such an negative automatic response as these so-called "conspiracy theories".

Even your friendly "FactoryJoe" feels equal to the task of myth debunking and finds no irony in his or her pronouncement that "the science on *insert scornworthy topic* is tenuous, at best" where a simple *snort* would have been more in line.

So, which conspiracy theory is the Moby Dick of conspiracy theories? No, not 'alien cover-ups'. Not JFK's assassination.

The big BIG story that seems to get all those 'nutcases' more worked up than any other is...psychotronic weapon technology.

"Psychotronics" are the alleged weapons that employ electronics to alter consciousness and behavior.

Admittedly, it seems pretty far out.

But then, why is the US army talking about it as these weapons were real?

This article is from Parameters, Spring 1998, pp. 84-92 - a US Army publication.

quote:
An entirely new arsenal of weapons, based on devices designed to introduce subliminal messages or to alter the body's psychological and data-processing capabilities, might be used to incapacitate individuals. These weapons aim to control or alter the psyche, or to attack the various sensory and data-processing systems of the human organism. In both cases, the goal is to confuse or destroy the signals that normally keep the body in equilibrium.

This article examines energy-based weapons, psychotronic weapons, and other developments designed to alter the ability of the human body to process stimuli. One consequence of this assessment is that the way we commonly use the term "information warfare" falls short when the individual soldier, not his equipment, becomes the target of attack


the mind has no firewall


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 387

posted 26 November 2002 09:04 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Subliminal suggestions have been around for some time. Anybody wonder why they can't go into a store without buying something? The theory is that subliminal messages are embedded in the music that is played. Why do TV ads always come across louder than the program? In the 60s, subliminal messages were proven to have been inserted. Who can be sure this still isn't happening?

Radio waves don't just come through radios, they are in the air around us so we may be getting messages we never hear. Electrical impulses also travel by air. What makes anyone think that governments will not use these things for their own purposes? I don't believe in becoming paranoid about these things, but it doesn't hurt to be aware that these things may be happening and think twice before acting in a manner that isn't quite your normal behaviour.


From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 26 November 2002 09:42 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why do TV ads always come across louder than the program?

That's actually illegal, but it seems to be done all the time now. "Global" used to be the worst, but I find now that the "History Channel" is by far and away the worst violator.

Double edged sword, flotsam? Wouldn't it be better to disable soldiers temporarily instead of putting holes in them?

On the other hand, maybe I said that because they've already started using these weapons?

And, thinking of that, one wonders how long, if such weapons were developed, they'd be used for "crowd control"?


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 26 November 2002 10:14 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Radio waves don't just come through radios, they are in the air around us so we may be getting messages we never hear.

Their wavelengths are too long for anything in the human body to respond to such waves.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 26 November 2002 10:23 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Getting weirder.

quote:
According to Solntsev, one computer virus capable of affecting a person's psyche is Russian Virus 666. It manifests itself in every 25th frame of a visual display, where it produces a combination of colors that allegedly put computer operators into a trance. The subconscious perception of the new pattern eventually results in arrhythmia of the heart. Other Russian computer specialists, not just Solntsev, talk openly about this "25th frame effect" and its ability to subtly manage a computer user's perceptions. The purpose of this technique is to inject a thought into the viewer's subconscious. It may remind some of the subliminal advertising controversy in the United States in the late 1950s.

US Views on "Wonder Weapons": Altering the Data-Processing Ability of the Body

What technologies have been examined by the United States that possess the potential to disrupt the data-processing capabilities of the human organism? The 7 July 1997 issue of U.S. News and World Report described several of them designed, among other things, to vibrate the insides of humans, stun or nauseate them, put them to sleep, heat them up, or knock them down with a shock wave.[9] The technologies include dazzling lasers that can force the pupils to close; acoustic or sonic frequencies that cause the hair cells in the inner ear to vibrate and cause motion sickness, vertigo, and nausea, or frequencies that resonate the internal organs causing pain and spasms; and shock waves with the potential to knock down humans or airplanes and which can be mixed with pepper spray or chemicals.[10]

With modification, these technological applications can have many uses. Acoustic weapons, for example, could be adapted for use as acoustic rifles or as acoustic fields that, once established, might protect facilities, assist in hostage rescues, control riots, or clear paths for convoys. These waves, which can penetrate buildings, offer a host of opportunities for military and law enforcement officials. Microwave weapons, by stimulating the peripheral nervous system, can heat up the body, induce epileptic-like seizures, or cause cardiac arrest. Low-frequency radiation affects the electrical activity of the brain and can cause flu-like symptoms and nausea. Other projects sought to induce or prevent sleep, or to affect the signal from the motor cortex portion of the brain, overriding voluntary muscle movements. The latter are referred to as pulse wave weapons, and the Russian government has reportedly bought over 100,000 copies of the "Black Widow" version of them.[11]



From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 26 November 2002 10:29 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it gets uglier?

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: flotsom ]


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 826

posted 27 November 2002 02:19 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Experiments with this sort of thing have been taking place for decades. I heard on the World at Six a few years ago that work is being done on a crowd comtrol device that uses.... sound waves, I think, to trigger vomiting in those it's aimed at.

On the weird things you see idea, I saw a really.... interesting thing last night on the way home. I was on my bike, at a red, across the intersection a family of 5 was using the cross walk, a sixish boy was out in front, then a corvette suddenly turned right, a collision looked imminent, and the boy fell backwards swiftly, out of the path of the car.... which promptly left the scene.

It didn't look like the boy even saw the car, the way he fell backwards, both feet out from under him, it looked like he had been yanked from behind, but the closest sibling was three paces behind.

Neat. Glad he was alright.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 27 November 2002 02:41 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This. is. not. feedback. to. rabble. content.

I swear, I'm just gonna start closing these, instead of moving them.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595

posted 27 November 2002 02:52 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's all bunk. Flying saucers, JFK conspiracy, subliminal messages.

None of these ideas bears any scrutiny. They're interesting and imaginative noodlings of people who have focussed on the anomolies that appear in every day life.

Sorry to ruin the tea party...


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Flowers By Irene
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3012

posted 27 November 2002 03:34 PM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Umm, MKULTRA is not bunk. It was real, and that was decades ago. The technology of today - who knows how far it can go. Scary.
From: "To ignore the facts, does not change the facts." -- Andy Rooney | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 27 November 2002 03:48 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Such a brave pronouncement Michael. Are you qualified to make that assessment? Did you not read the first link? Have you heard of Dr Cameron or the mind control experiments that took place at McGill under american intelligence funding? Sidney Gottleib?
From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595

posted 27 November 2002 04:02 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Are you qualified to make that assessment?

I'm sorry. No, I'm not. I withdraw my comment.

Please provide me with a link to how I can gain credible Conspiracy credentials so I can be qualified to comment.

But be warned, you Conspiracy theorists are becoming a cabal, drunk with power. You keep people out of your conspiracies to prevent us from finding out the TRUTH !


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 27 November 2002 04:08 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quoting me as:

quote:
Are you qualified to make that assessment? Did you not read the first link?

Would have made my intention clearer.

I am not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch. Perhaps you also did not read the first post of this thread.


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595

posted 27 November 2002 04:25 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Even when *flotsom* was little he'd often guage a man like he was some frontier gunslinger

Gosh. You sound like Annie Oakley !

To be honest, though, you're right. I only breezed through the article.

I agree that the military does research into strange areas ( hey, they have a tough row to hoe - to spend billions of dollars on nothing at all - so give them a break ! ) and, yes, the nature of these experiments is intriguing, beguiling, scary, etc. etc. etc.

But most of the speculation about these things is just more material for the masturbatory sci-fi/thriller/spy hobbyists.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 27 November 2002 04:48 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I happen to be one who doubts. Always have. Even when *flotsom* was little he'd often guage a man like he was some frontier gunslinger; he'd fix his flinty glare, locking onto the eyes of the mailman, whoever, searching out the lie. It could be said that I doubt even the doubts, if you get my meaning.

Well, whoever said your posts had to be as dull as, well, posts?

quote:
But most of the speculation about these things is just more material for the masturbatory sci-fi/thriller/spy hobbyists.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with the information, itself.


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595

posted 27 November 2002 04:58 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well, whoever said your posts had to be as dull as, well, posts?


No one. I love it !

quote:
But most of the speculation about these things is just more material for the masturbatory sci-fi/thriller/spy hobbyists.
------------------------------
Has nothing whatsoever to do with the information, itself.

Ok, ok. My geek self-hatred is showing.

Experimenting on people without their knowledge is bad, I agree. And the military-industrial complex is bleeding us dry and THAT'S NO CONSPIRACY THEORY !

quote:

Despite the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the breakup of the Soviet Union, the U.S. military budget is higher today than it was when Eisenhower gave his military-industrial complex speech in 1961. At more than $270 billion per year, the U.S. military budget (in constant dollars) remains near the peacetime cold war average that prevailed during the prime period of U.S.-Soviet rivalry, from roughly 1950 to 1989.


270 BILLION !


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2832

posted 27 November 2002 05:10 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't Bush just sign an agreement to increase their military budget by 370 billion?

That's just shy of half of annual global military spending.

I've linked to this info before but maybe you've not yet seen it.

what the world wants


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 27 November 2002 10:35 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
$355 billion this year, $370 billion next year.

As a percentage of the US federal budget it's well below 1960s levels, but it's above the historical average through the 1980s and 1990s of 15 to 20% of the total budget.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca