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Author Topic: Mini-Stalin, Saddam Hussein
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 29 April 2002 10:34 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The party seized control in 1968, and Saddam immediately became the real power behind his cousin Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr, the president and chairman of the new Revolutionary Command Council. Al-Ali was a member of that council. He was responsible for the north-central part of Iraq, including his home village. It was in Tikrit that he started to see Saddam's larger plan unfold. Saddam's relatives in al-Awja were throwing their newly ascendant kinsman's name around, seizing farms, ordering people off their land. That was how things worked in the villages. If a family was lucky, it produced a strongman, a patriarch, who by guile, strength, or violence accumulated riches for his clan. Saddam was now a strongman, and his family was moving to claim the spoils. This was all ancient stuff. The Baath philosophy was far more egalitarian. It emphasized working with Arabs in other countries to rebuild the entire region, sharing property and wealth, seeking a better life for all. In this political climate Saddam's family was a throwback. The local party chiefs complained bitterly, and al-Ali took their complaints to his powerful young friend. "It's a small problem," Saddam said. "These are simple people. They don't understand our larger aims. I'll take care of it." Two, three, four times al-Ali went to Saddam, because the problem didn't go away. Every time it was the same: "I'll take care of it."

It finally occurred to al-Ali that the al-Khatab family was doing exactly what Saddam wanted them to do. This seemingly modern, educated young villager was not primarily interested in helping the party achieve its idealistic aims; rather, he was using the party to help him achieve his. Suddenly al-Ali saw that the polish, the fine suits, the urbane tastes, civilized manner, and the socialist rhetoric were a pose. The real story of Saddam was right there in the tattoo on his right hand. He was a true son of Tikrit, a clever al-Khatab, and he was now much more than the patriarch of his clan.



Tales of the Tyrant

From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Riffraff
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Babbler # 2034

posted 29 April 2002 11:26 PM      Profile for Riffraff     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Demonizing Saddam Hussein is quite an entertainment business.

How many tyrans are there, let us say in the ARab world ? All to the excption perhaps of Lebanon's leader.

Why is Saddam Hussein the one to whom the western finger points ? Because unlike his brethren -Arab and Muslim leaders- he is not a "friend of the West" -or more preciesely he ceased to be one. Read not that he is no friend of the peoples of the West but no friend of imperialism, unharnessed capitalism and globalization -that is open everything in your country for privatization and ownership by Western corporations).

This boogeyman is no different than any other, but the tools of propaganda for chiefly corporate America and its spoiled child, Israel, are of course at work..


From: Ontario | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 29 April 2002 11:39 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I noticed that the newspapers are definitely pro Israel. It occurred to me that of course all the news is biased for one side or another.

There are legal crooks and illegal crooks. Somehow the legal crooks are good and the illegal bad. And the saga goes on.


From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 30 April 2002 12:26 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How did Saddam Hussein even get mixed up with the Ba'ath party if he's not a socialist?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
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Babbler # 2356

posted 30 April 2002 03:01 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
This boogeyman is no different than any other, but the tools of propaganda for chiefly corporate America and its spoiled child, Israel,
are of course at work..

You should check out the discussion here for more on this.

[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Arch Stanton ]


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 30 April 2002 04:59 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Riffraff: Are you on crack?
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2356

posted 30 April 2002 12:03 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What's the matter, clock', you don't like The Atlantic Monthly?
From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
nate
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posted 30 April 2002 08:47 PM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, yes ... Saddam Hussein ... romantic revolutionary and brave defender of the "people" against american corporate capitalism ...

I guess the fact that Hussein is "anti-American" (something that could probably be said about every major world leader) more than makes up for the fact he likes to drop poison gas on his own people, brutalizes minority Kurds, initiates invasions of sovereign nations such as Kuwait, rules his country with an iron fist and tolerates zero dissent.

Nate H.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
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posted 30 April 2002 11:30 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What's the matter, clock', you don't like The Atlantic Monthly?

Not at all. What I don't like is reflexive rhetoric which really has nothing to do with the article I posted.

The story of Saddam Hussein is more fascinating than your run-of-the-mill dictator tale.

I rather like Atlantic Monthly. After reading this month's edition, I found out that the Prophet Mohammed is, like, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 01 May 2002 09:05 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
However, on the topic of demonizing Saddam:

quote:
To Stephen Pelletiere, who was the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq throughout the Iran-Iraq War, this is highly alarming. "There is to this day the belief—and I'm not the only one who holds it—that things didn't happen in Halabja the way Goldberg wrote it," he told the Voice. "And it's an especially crucial issue right now. We say Saddam is a monster, a maniac who gassed his own people, and the world shouldn't tolerate him. But why? Because that's the last argument the U.S. has for going to war with Iraq."

Fighting Words

From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2356

posted 01 May 2002 12:02 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So Saddam and Iran (the problem with Iran is that they have no individual to focus hate propaganda upon) both bombed the Kurds.

What about the Turks?

Are there any studies on comparative genocide against the Kurds? What's the score? Who has done the most damage to the Kurds; the Turks, the Iraqis or the Iranians?

Will the Turkish government someday shift policies and instantly bring Anatolia into the axis of evil? (This is doubtful as Turkey has been very canny about foreign policy since the fiasco of the Great War)


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 01 May 2002 01:49 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People may recall that one of the elements of the drumbeat for attacking Iraq was the "fact" that world trade centre terrorist, Mohamed Atta, had been seen meeting with the head of Iraq's Secret Service in the period prior to September 11th.

As I recall, the NAtional Post in particular went Postal over this meeting, calling it the "smoking gun" etc.

Today's Washington Post reports that the fellah who met with the Iraqi Secret Service representative was not Atta. It seems that someone from the Czech secret service "recognized"
Atta's photo on September 11, FIVE months after the meeting allegedly occurred.

Now, it appears he made a mistake on identity.

And the FBI has concluded that Atta never left the US during the relevant period.

I guess we're lucky we didn't declare war based on that meeting!


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 01 May 2002 01:53 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I guess we're lucky we didn't declare war based on that meeting!

Who said we actually have to declare it now?


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 21 May 2002 06:16 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interview with the author of Tales of a Tyrant.

quote:
The hardest thing was to try to sort out the truth from fantasy. There have been a number of books written about Saddam, several of them by Iraqi expatriates, and one by the British journalists Alexander and Leslie Cockburn. But the problem with those books is that they repeat a lot of rumors about him. Given that he is such a despised figure in his own country and around the world, anything bad that's said about Saddam is repeated and written down as though it were definitely true. My hunch going in was that if I were trying to write about the intimate details of his personal life, it was going to be difficult to sort out the tall tales from the truth. The only way to try to get at the truth was by finding people who had personal relationships with him and getting them to talk about their experiences. In my reporting, I try to get first-hand stories because I have the best shot at getting reliable information that way.

From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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