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Author Topic: An old Frenchman on the National Vanity of the Americans
al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 March 2003 06:23 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Americans, in their intercourse with strangers, appear impatient of the smallest censure and insatiable of praise. The most slender eulogy is acceptable to them, the most exalted seldom contents them; they unceasingly harass you to extort praise, and if you resist their entreaties, they fall to praising themselves. It would seem as if, doubting their own merit, they wished to have it constantly exhibited before their eyes. Their vanity is not only greedy, but restless and jealous; it will grant nothing, while it demands everything, but is ready to beg and to quarrel at the same time.

Alexis de Tocqueville
Democracy in America

What's up with that, anyway?

[ 27 March 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]

[ 27 March 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 27 March 2003 06:40 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geez. They sound like Maple Leafs fans...
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 27 March 2003 11:18 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hah. I knew it.

I made a bet with myself as to who would be quoted before I clicked the link, and sure as anything it was de Tocqueville


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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posted 31 March 2003 09:18 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wouldn't pay much mind to Tocqueville anyway. That aristocrat was clinging to the ancient regime with as much strength as he could muster.

He was convinced that the African slaves loved their lot as the subjugated. He was so right!

Although Democracy in America is pretty interesting in other parts.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 31 March 2003 11:04 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I wouldn't pay much mind to Tocqueville anyway. That aristocrat was clinging to the ancient regime with as much strength as he could muster.

Actually, Tocqueville did not support the Old Regime at all.He supported the French Republic, and opposed the 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon, just as Marx did.

I do not believe that Toqueville was pro-slavery, either. My recollection is that he decried the inequality involved in slavery, and predicted that, if every there were a revolution in the US, blacks would lead it, because it did not grant them its full bounty.

I have found Tocqueville more penetrating each time I encounter him. Iam against "dissing" him on such a slender basis as that he was an aristocrat.Please desist.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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posted 01 April 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Disist granted. That was a cheap shot anyway.

I did, however, find his view on slavery extremely narrow. Tocqueville did not expound very well on what the slaves thought. He expected that if you asked them if they liked their master and they said yes, it was the truth.

Frederic Douglass picks up nicely where Tocqueville couldn't. It wasn't his fault, AdT just had tiny slavery experience.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 01 April 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, back to the Tocqueville quotation; I've found in my infrequent encounters with USians that they (yes, a generalization) interpret my criticism of any single part of their country or culture as a damning of the whole country.

Very absolutist in their views, I've found.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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posted 01 April 2003 04:46 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wouldn't a generalization be considered absolutist?

What do we do when Canadians present such opinions? Tocqueville didn't write anything on us!!


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 April 2003 09:01 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Wouldn't a generalization be considered absolutist?

*cough*

Can't argue there.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 05 April 2003 01:17 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What do we do when Canadians present such opinions? Tocqueville didn't write anything on us!!

Voltaire beat him to it.

"Quelques arpents de neige"

Ça suffit, non?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 05 April 2003 01:51 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
See also Knut Hamsun's The Cultural Life of Modern America published in 1889, for a telling, prescient visit to an america that sounds just as narrow, cloistered and xenophobic as it is today. Hamsun describes a late 19C america that sounds like it could be Fourth of July, 2003, in Dallas TX.
From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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posted 05 April 2003 07:54 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah oui. Je comprends maintenant. Malheureusement pour nous, il y a deja un Francais qui a ecrit quels-que choses sur Canada.

/French attempt.

Reference to another work is duly noted.

[ 05 April 2003: Message edited by: Puetski Murder ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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