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Research by an acclaimed US psychologist suggests that 80 per cent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings.

This finding lends scientific support to the long-standing speculation that those who shout the loudest against homosexuality have something to hide.

The research results were published in the prestigious Journal of Abnormal Psychology, with the backing of the American Psychological Association.

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[URL=http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/sundaysun/news/]

(Enter "homophobia" in search engine. Title is "Was Our Ken Telling It Straight?"

[ 06 February 2006: Message edited by: jeff house ]

Some men are so manly that the only way to prove it to each other is to indulge in overtly homoerotic displays of manliness. That's how you tell if a man is straight. If he's willing to slap the other guy on the ass butt naked. That's a sign of supreme straightness.

"How would I know if he's hot? I don't look at guys that way"

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
My favorite dumb guy expression:

"How would I know if he's hot? I don't look at guys that way"

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
That has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. It's like guys have no aesthetic sense when it comes to men, but they do to everything else.

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Speaking as a guy, I can tell you that when we don't care about something, we don't care about it. Unless they're making a huge deal about it, these guys aren't being homophobic, they're being honest.

Do those guys who say that really have an aesthetic sense about everything else? Somehow I doubt that. I sure don't. Ask them to choose between two pairs of similar women's shoes. Or floral arrangements. Or wallpaper patterns (the wall kind, not the computer kind).

Yes, there are a few - damn few - women who are so far removed from "ordinary" hotness as for me to notice they're in a different category and can say they're hot, but don't ask me to start ranking female actors, or the women in my office.

And by the same token, a few weeks ago I was out with a friend clothes shopping and he kept asking how things looked compared to other things. Like I'd know or care!

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Originally posted by RealityBites:

Speaking as a guy, I can tell you that when we don't care about something, we don't care about it. Unless they're making a huge deal about it, these guys aren't being homophobic, they're being honest.

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
Remember, these same guys are the ones who claim they are so visual they absolutely need porn.

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Zzzzzzing!

[ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: Accidental Altruist ]

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Guys just do that sometimes, go off into a mindless fugue... it they were a cow, they'd be chewing their cud. But there's nothing goin' on upstairs. And it's not just "the dumb ones", either -- I've seen almost every guy fall prey to this at one time or another, including me. (Maybe gals do this too... I dunno.)

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Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:

I always said if I could come back as anyone else it would be David Duchovney.

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And, as the comedians have noted many times, sometimes when you ask your guy "What are you thinking?" and he answers "........ nothing...." that's the truth, too. Guys just do that sometimes, go off into a mindless fugue... it they were a cow, they'd be chewing their cud. But there's nothing goin' on upstairs. And it's not just "the dumb ones", either -- I've seen almost every guy fall prey to this at one time or another, including me.

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
I'm not buying that guys> I just can't. These guys have no problem discussing the beauty of cars, computers, women, art, etc. yet seemingly have no concept of what is or is not an atractive guy - even objectively.

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If you questioned them at length they might. But "I don't know" is a lot closer to the truth which is that they don't care and aren't going to waste any thought on it.

I have no problem discussing the beauty of cars and computers, but women and art? Yeah, right!

They may not be expressing it well, and are offering up the wrong reason, but I have absolutely no problem at all believing that straight guys don't spend their days secretly ranking the attractiveness of all guys they encounter only to refuse to discuss it with women.

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Originally posted by JimmyBrogan:
If straight men can't understand why another man is hot or not, how come they have no trouble noticing another man's shortcomings in the looks department?

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There are certainly those who cannot see such shortcomings in themselves. Like the str8 guys who assume that every gay guy on Earth wants their booty, regardless of how utterly hideous they may be 'in the looks department.'

[ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
I think most men have homoerotic feelings, or at the very minimum have thought about it. What I don't get is why it's so hard for them to admit that. My favorite dumb guy expression:

"How would I know if he's hot? I don't look at guys that way"

That has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. It's like guys have no aesthetic sense when it comes to men, but they do to everything else.

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I've met straight fellas who I genuinely believe don't notice if a man is attractive or not. They might notice if he's fit, or bigger, or smaller, or whatever; but I don't think they'd notice, for instance, his jawline, or the good bone structure in his face, or the way his eyes glint...well, you get the idea.

At the same time, I've met gay fellas who seem to be clueless about the attractive features of women around them.

I agree that some of it is probably our latent homophobia, and discomfort with our own sexuality, but I also think that RB is right when he suggests that with a lot of men, there isn't a lot of time spent thinking about uninteresting issues. Like, I have absolutely no conception of what make-up looks good. In fact, if you ask me, less is more when it comes to make-up; I love the "au natural" look.

So, somebody could get a haircut, and carefully do their make-up, and so on, and I'd not notice at all.

At the same time, I tend to like talking about the aesthetics of a room, or a house; I notice physical appearances, smiles, eyes, things like that.

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Oh at least that many. I'd say homophobia is latent in at least 60% of the populations.

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I'm not sure but you can test your homophobia.
Quiz

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Originally posted by Tape_342:
I guess that's a question for the str8 fellas out there: when you're putting yourself together, are you dressing and grooming by aesthetic instinct? Or do you have to keep the 'rules' in mind: 'wait, I can't wear this.... my last girlfriend said that sport coat makes my ass look oversized'; 'okay, my hair is right... isn't it? Hmmm. Yeah, it looks like the way the barber combed it... I'll be ok.'

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I ask my partner, at which time she tells me I'm not wearing that. Then I hunt for some else to wear.

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Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:
Fascinating topic. I always said if I could come back as anyone else it would be David Duchovney.

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15. I fear homosexual persons will make sexual advances towards me.

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I guess I got into trouble for my answers on:

5. I think homosexual people should not work with children. (I don't like kids)

6. I make derogatory remarks about gay people.

9. I make derogatory remarks like "faggot" or "queer" to people I suspect are gay.

10. It does not matter to me whether my friends are gay or straight.

13. I tease and make jokes about gay people.

15. I fear homosexual persons will make sexual advances towards me. (trolls)

18. I would feel uncomfortable having a gay roommate. (small apartment)

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Originally posted by Cueball:
That is cool. The problem is I know all the right answers. I am talking about the really latent, latent stuff.

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For the record, I didn't mean in in a serious way. I posted it in sarcism then anything.

[ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: ouroboros ]

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
I'm not buying that guys> I just can't. These guys have no problem discussing the beauty of cars, computers, women, art, etc. yet seemingly have no concept of what is or is not an atractive guy - even objectively.

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I'm not sure. My partner doesn't notice the difference between a Shelby Ford and a normal Ford, even after I point out the differences. Or why Harman Kardon, Denon and Onkyo receivers are so cool looking when Sony's aren't.

I can tell if a guy is good, normal or not good looking. But there is a lot of grey area and the good and normal blend together a lot.

But boys aren't taught from a young age to look at other boys looks, but I think girls are. You don't heard many people say to their son "Doesn't Danny look cute in that dress?" but you heard people say stuff like that to their daughters a lot more.

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
I'm not buying that guys> I just can't.

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Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:
Why, AE, that would make you my boyfriend.

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Hah! I checked your profile so I get why. Well, I'm honoured. You obviously have good taste.

As for me, looks-wise, I'm about the polar opposite of cool Dave. In fact, I recently shaved the beard off (the one you see in my picture on my rabble column). I was following my father down the road of looking too much like Kenny Rogers. But my mum really likes that, even though I don't.

Heph wrote:

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Okay, AE... go to the beer store, and come back as Davey D. (Ya sure you wouldn't like to come back as David Bowie circa Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence, hey? )

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Heph, is the beer store a magical place where one can shuck the surley bonds of birth and emerge a new person, one more in line with our latent personalities, hopes and dreams? I knew the beer store held a hallowed place in Canadian lore but I didn't know about the legend either. Is it all the time or does it only happens if you buy the bottle of Molson with the golden ticket in it? I've only been on one beer store which was under the watchful eye of a Toronto cop. Maybe he was checking everyone out to see who would transfigure? My fear is I would ask for David Duchovney and get it wrong and emerge as Don Cherry.

Tape wrote:

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I guess that's a question for the str8 fellas out there: when you're putting yourself together, are you dressing and grooming by aesthetic instinct? Or do you have to keep the 'rules' in mind: 'wait, I can't wear this.... my last girlfriend said that sport coat makes my ass look oversized'; 'okay, my hair is right... isn't it? Hmmm. Yeah, it looks like the way the barber combed it... I'll be ok.'

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I've rarely found myself in that position where I was actually dressing to impress the opposite sex (if that's implied). Generally, if I can find a tie that matches, I'll wear that same tie everytime I wear that suit (maybe 1-2 times a year). For other occasions I give myself the "yechh" test - if I can look in the mirror without going "yechh" I consider myself good to go.

Generations of women relatives and friends have tried to dress me with little to show for it. I probably would be a good candidate for "Queer Eye" or "What Not to Wear" or one of those shows.

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I scored a 54, homophobic.

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Yeah, I didn't do so hot either. I suspect the test was designed by and for exclusively straight people. I think me or any of my friends for example would have a tough time with this one:

24. When I meet someone I try to find out if he/she is gay.

Why should stargazer's gender prevent her from making enciteful comments about men?

[ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

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With respect, you lack the neccesary experiences to have a valid point of view on this topic anyway.

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[ 07 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

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With respect, you lack the neccesary experiences to have a valid point of view on this topic anyway

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24 - Your score rates you as "high-grade non-homophobic."

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Thems my results! I got in trouble with the property damage.

And I agree with RB's point about shoes ... I have no idea what a good looking shoe is, or wallpaper for that matter, because I really don't care. Really. I still haven't been able to convince my wife that I'm just pretending it doesn't make a difference which ones she wears, but its true.

As far as attractiveness in men, I entirely agree that's it's completely subjective. I have no trouble admitting when I find a guy attactive, but most of the time I'm asked "Isn't he hot?" I find nothing attractive in the man, sow hat else am I supposed to say other than "If you say so".

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Originally posted by cogito ergo sum:
I'm often surprised at the guys that my female friends actually find hot. Some of them are definitely un/less attractive compared to other guys that I can see nearby, yet my friends often seem to turn their noses up at those other better looking (IMO) guys. Go figure...

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6 - Your score rates you as "high-grade non-homophobic."

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Good thing. Considering I live in probably the "gayest" neighbourhood in Canada (the West End), I'd be pretty miserable were I a homophobe.

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my "would I be more or less likely to be able to get laid by random women if I looked like that guy" algorithm

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I always said if I could come back as anyone else it would be David Duchovney.

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