There are interesting works about the process which led up to the stitching together of a number of disparate books which was then called
"The Bible". And it is quite interesting how other books were excluded, often on a fairly sexist basis.

quote:

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Was this book foreseen by Nostradamus? 11

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[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]

Many German words are stories and/or theories really. Weltschmerz just came to my mind... And Zeitgeist, what a neat term.

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]

More words: Öffentlichkeit (thanks to Habermas) Sittlichkeit (Hegel vs. Kant).

Der Blitzkrieg.

{Edited to remove an extra H}

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]

Bembo is a classic typeface -- was there an Msgr Bembo?

Diottalevi: Either an artist or an art critic, no?

Probably out of print, as it deserves to be, but weirdly fascinating for its, well, dottiness. Christ survived his crucifiction and had a son, don't you know, the direct descendents of whom have been carefully sheltered by the Templars, et al, down through the ages. And a shadowy group is even now (OK, was 20 years ago) preparing to place the latest descendent on the throne of France.

Hey, I got it from the local library, being young and susceptible to the media hype of the time. Even then, I wasn't susceptible to the actual book, though.

Edited to add:

quote:

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Pedants don't 'get' jokes, I'll have you know...

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... but we do have one of our own! Accused of pedantry, you simply respond "I don't think that's quite the right word..."

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: 'lance ]

Holy Blood/Grail is very much still in print. It's the Great Grand-daddy of the book we've all come here to ignore.

Loved that book. Holy Grail, that is. Wouldn't it be fun if it were all true. Masons, Templars, Jesus, all that... someone should make the movie.

Did I mention that I sometimes buy the Weekly World News? Anytime there's a Satan sighting, I just can't help myself.

I read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" shortly before taking on Eco's "Foucaults Pendulum", a book I promised myself to re-read sometime.

I think for those that are good sceptics, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" can be read and enjoyed as a kind of practice in how to "spot the looney". The book is well crafted, and the three card monté game the authors play with the "evidence" is fun to watch, and your experience from reading prepares you for other, less obvious huey.

And there was a Father Causabon who was an scholar of Egyptian mysteries around 1700. He made a big deal out of the then unreadable hieroglyphics, and claimed that there was secret lore passed down from Egypt to today.

And how could I have forgotten Aufhebung! (Interestingly, the past participle is aufgehoben somehow.) People translate it as Sublation, but there's much much more to it, naturlich. Like, the entire Hegel's philosophy of history perhaps...

I remembered Geisteswissenschaft (humanities) the other day. And what's the word for Law, could be Recht. And Geschichte, for History - and for Story or Narration too. Let me see if I can remember any fancy words from Max Weber... hmmm... I never knew what the original word for "disenchantment" was until just now (thanks to this on-line dictionary): die Ernuchterung. That could be the one that Weber used, but I am not sure.

Kritik der Reinen Vernunft, I don't think I'll forget *that* title. Or another one famous from Kant: Zum Ewigen Frieden. And Was ist Aufklarung, bien sur.

quote:

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A key concept in Hegel's historical approach is "sublation":

To sublate, and the sublated ... constitute one of the most important notions in philosophy. It is a fundamental determination which repeatedly occurs throughout the whole of philosophy, the meaning of which is to be clearly grasped and especially distinguished from nothing. What is sublated is not thereby reduced to nothing. ...

'To sublate' [aufhaben] has a twofold meaning in the language: on the one hand it means to preserve, to maintain, and equally it also means to cause to cease, to put an end to. Even 'to preserve' includes a negative element, namely, that something is removed from its influences, in order to preserve it. Thus what is sublated is at the same time preserved; it has only lost its immediacy but is not on that account annihilated. [The Science of Logic,
Book I, Becoming]

So, when we come across a particular idea, or social movement or tendency, etc., we see not an isolated proposition which is more or less wrong in this or that respect, but a moment of development, we see it in motion, in interconnection with others,
we see its inherent logic, its relative validity and its internal contradictions; we see it as part of history. We see ourselves as part
of history.

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I think so too.

Off to aufhebe.

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: skdadl ]

But we've neglected other languages. How about Italian. Skdadl would say corsi e ricorsi. Let's see.

Chiaroscuro.

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Lemme guess. This could be from one of your old lectures, skdadl, no?

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Are you kidding? I read just enough Hegel to learn that my mind does not work that way and there is no point in my reading Hegel. I'm sure it's important that some other people do, though.

I don't know Italian, but I love this maxim:

But when it comes to social science bafflegab, German is clearly superior. Wracking my brain for 15 seconds or more, the only appropriate word which comes to mind is "virtu".

Somehow a pirouette on a Macchiavellian term does not suggest great depth, as (we agree) abhebung necessarily does.

An excerpt:

quote:

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Pâté
escargot, soup du jour
cordon bleu, chic coiffure,
fait accompli, maison

Crème de menthe
Marcel Marceau
meringue, blancmange, Bardot
gauche, Gay Paris, garçon...

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Still laughing, 'lance.

(And may your fridge be full of coldies.)

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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admirers of ... Vico, too, may deploy such words.

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corsi e ricorsi are Vico's terms. Otherwise, I read him in English.

*I* was trying to come up with something from Machiavelli, and couldn't remember anything but the first sentence from Il Principe. Now that you mentioned virtu I remember vivere civile. (And here's the text in its entirety.) I was also trying to remember terms from Mosca and Pareto and Michels, but it seems that the translators that I read left nothing behind. I'm still looking, there must be something - other than what they recycled from Machiavelli about volpe e leone, that is.

Now here's a question for you and the others. Do you remember where this famous beginning might be from:

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Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita
mi ritrovai per una selva oscura

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And bring in some Spanish and Portuguese, folks. Or Latin and Ancient Greek if you'd like.

(I profusely apologize to the starter of this thread for sidetracking.) Edited to add: yes! Dolce far niente is a good one!

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]

quote:

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"In the middle of the journey of our life I came to myself within a dark wood where the straight way
was lost."

Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy

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Abandon hope, all ye who enter here!

(Hey, I can read Italian. I can read Italian! )

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate...

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Well, speranza is going to be hope (espere), so:

Lacerate our hopes with your entrails?

As for profound, I don't really associate it with the phallus. While some things, like a basso profundo, might regularly male, I automatically translate profound as it is in Spanish, as "deep". So some thoughts are deep, (as are vaginas on occasion, and so on) and some are superficial, ie. they pertain to the surface.

I don't speak Italian, but it stills sounds real purty.

[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:

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"Poeta, io ti richeggio per quello Dio che tu non conoscesti..."

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1. By that God Thou didst not know, I do thine aid entreat, And guidance

2. And I to him: Poet, I thee entreat,
By that same God whom thou didst never know

3. "Poet," I replied, "I beseech you by that God unknown To you"

The overall translation of Inferno I like best is the one by Robert Pinsky from the mid-90s. I have that at home, and I can type in his version of the line when I get home tonight. As fitting for a translation done by a poet, I find his translation more lyrical than others and, well, more poetic.

[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: MJ ]

I had no idea where the stich came from, but each translation that you offered sounds beautiful. And 'lance. There really should be a licensing agency for something so useless, non-applicable, impractical and non-profitable as erudition... No?

[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]