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Author Topic: breach of ethics
peppermint
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posted 23 December 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for peppermint     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure if you guys have been following the Hwang Woo-Suk case that's been going on in Korea, but it's been the main story for the past month here.

The scientist became a national hero in Korea after he cloned a dog called Snuppy. Things kept growing, and Science published an article from him outlining how he'd cloned stem cells.

There's been huge amounts of hype over this, and today, Seoul National University confirmed that the cloned stem cells described in the Science paper never existed.

This is in addition to the donation of eggs by his junior researchers, that was discovered last month.

I'm kind of interested in how you guys think this should be handled


From: Korea | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
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posted 23 December 2005 04:18 AM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Handled?
I wouldn't touch it with Waldos, in full chemical contamination gear.

From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
peppermint
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posted 23 December 2005 04:55 AM      Profile for peppermint     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was thinking in terms of a suitable punishment actuallly. I know the normal thing in the west would be to just fire the guy and let him fade into obscurity, but this is far from a normal case.

When suspicions first arose on a national news program, protests were so intense that advertisers cancelled their ads with the station, and the show had to be cancelled. There was a campaign to get this guy nominated for a Nobel prize etc.

There's a great movie plot or three in here somewhere.


From: Korea | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 23 December 2005 08:40 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds like the biological equivalent of the Bre-X scandal. The bastards who engineered that fraud, those that weren't thrown from a helicopter, are free and living in the tropics. Hwang Woo-Suk is probably eyeing property on a nice extradition-free island around Thailand, if the pattern holds.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 23 December 2005 09:44 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Peppermint, there was a short article in the G&M this week about this case, but it was inconclusive and I'm not sure I'm following all the details.

Like, eg: what would eggs from a female human have to do with cloning a dog?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kiwi_chick
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posted 23 December 2005 11:56 AM      Profile for kiwi_chick        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He will probably be executed in public.

[ 23 December 2005: Message edited by: kiwi_chick ]


From: ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
peppermint
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posted 23 December 2005 03:26 PM      Profile for peppermint     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Peppermint, there was a short article in the G&M this week about this case, but it was inconclusive and I'm not sure I'm following all the details.

Like, eg: what would eggs from a female human have to do with cloning a dog?


The guy in question claimed to have cloned a dog back in 2004, which was big news. In April of this year, he claimed to have cloned stem cells ( which is where the donated eggs come in). The cloned stem cells have been proven nonesistent and now people are wondering if that dog was really cloned.

As for the Bre-X thing, that's a valid point, though this guy played on Korean nationalism too and that's a really dangerous game.


From: Korea | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 23 December 2005 03:46 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kiwi_chick:
He will probably be executed in public.

[ 23 December 2005: Message edited by: kiwi_chick ]


Why would you think that?


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 23 December 2005 06:42 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Briguy:
Sounds like the biological equivalent of the Bre-X scandal. The bastards who engineered that fraud, those that weren't thrown from a helicopter, are free and living in the tropics. Hwang Woo-Suk is probably eyeing property on a nice extradition-free island around Thailand, if the pattern holds.

[thread drift]The only Bre-x brass left alive is John Felderhof. Michael De Guzman died in 1997 when he jumped, or was pushed, from a helicopter in Indonesia. David Walsh, the founder of the company died in 1998 of a brain aneurysm.[/thread drift]

As to the phony stem cell research, I suggest an investigation into how it was allowed to happen would be of greater value than punishing the principal, although I'm not opposed to some level of punishment.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
kiwi_chick
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posted 23 December 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for kiwi_chick        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:

Why would you think that?


Oops I thought it was North Korea.


From: ontario | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 23 December 2005 09:51 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
History repeats itself, I see. I introduce you all to Doctor Karl Illmensee. Incidentally, in 1984, Davor Solter basically set back cloning research by a decade when he unequivocally pronounced mammal cloning impossible - see here.

[ 23 December 2005: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 23 December 2005 10:00 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
it is still uncertain whether or not Illmensee did clone three mice in 1979.

Were they the famous 'Three Blind Mice?'


From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 23 December 2005 10:03 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to say I laughed at his name longer than I actually thought about the story.

What's there to do? He faked the research, it has to be thrown out, and he goes to work making Hyundais or something.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 24 December 2005 12:33 AM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No way, man: he joins the Raelians. They can ride this sort of apparent setback.
From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged

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