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Author Topic: The changing face of Canada
Babbler # 2938

posted 07 June 2003 07:49 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote

From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 4101

posted 07 June 2003 12:09 PM      Profile for Deception     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i wish Trudeau could be alive to see this
From: front lines of the revolution | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 3336

posted 07 June 2003 12:49 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Immigration is generally pretty healthy. I've been in 20 countries and, from what I've seen, Canadians are the most tolerant of other cultures and skin colours.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
Babbler # 2092

posted 07 June 2003 03:04 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I said this in another thread, but I'll say it again. The US rose to prominence with a huge influx of talented, optomistic immigrants. Canada could do the same. Especially now that our prime competition, the US itself, is shooting itself in the foot with its xenophobia. Open the flood gates, says I.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 07 June 2003 03:15 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Immigration could be a great boon to our economy.

Depite the fact that there are some problems with our immigration system now, the net economic effect had been good. THere are things that can improve the system- like setting a cap on the family re-unification program so that 1 legitimate immigrant can't bring 51 other people with them (I realize that is an extreme, but there have been a few cases like that)- then Canada will become even stronger.

From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 214

posted 08 June 2003 09:33 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems to me, though, that our immigration policies have changed since the great influx in the 60's and 70's.

No longer do we take in the huddled masses, but target wealthy or persons with special skills.

Which has the effect of not growing those skills at home.

The great fear of conservatives is that the flood gates will indeed open to the huddle masses, and the government will support them through welfare.

I find this a bit perplexing, in that welfare is one of the very few government spending things where "your money" gets injected right back into your neighborhood.

Immigrants getting their feet under them, like others on social assistance, don't have very big savings accounts. What they recieve gets spent, quite often in the stores of independant neighborhood retailers, and local landlords.

And, we can point to today at that wave of 60's and 70's immigrants, the Italians, Portuguese, Pakistani, etc, that have not just fit in, but have gone on to make solid contributions as fellow citizens.

So, yeah, I say open the flood gates too, but let's not be so selective.

By accident or design, Canada has an immigration policy that pretty much reflects the world's make up. For example, if (hypothetical numbers) the world's population is %30 Asian, then of new Canadians, %30 are Asian.

The net effect is that Canada is poised to do business anywhere in the world. We have contacts like few other nations.

From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 625

posted 08 June 2003 09:16 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Right on Tommy!

Most White Canadians born and raised here don't meet the criteria to immigrate to Canada.

THere are things that can improve the system- like setting a cap on the family re-unification program so that 1 legitimate immigrant can't bring 51 other people with them (I realize that is an extreme, but there have been a few cases like that)-

Really? Well then, sir, I'd like you to prove it. Because since 1994, our government has been moving away from family reunification, and minister after minister has moved to make the process even more difficult than it already is. The current criteria for family reunification excludes most siblings, for heavan's sake!

On top of all this, we've still got a head tax on immigrants entering the country. The refugee process has no appeal board, despite the fact that a year ago, minister Denis Coderre promissed the Canadian Council for Refugees, at their 2002 spring consultation, to implement one by now. Instead of living up to a simple commitment in line with the Geneva convention, he's reneged for fear of becoming too Liberal for Washington's taste. Canada's system deports asylum seekers without any means for them to appeal a negative ruling, sending them back to likely poverty and possible persecution.

While globalization continues, borders become less of an issue for goods and trade, but more of an issue for poor would-be immigrants and refugees. You've heard the demonization of the many who've tried to come to Canada "illegally" on boats commissioned by snakes, risking life and limb just to come to Canada and the United States. When they're caught, they're locked up like common criminals. I remember with the case of the Fujian passengers, the media made it seem as though they were using Canada as a route to the US, or that we were "the cheaper alternative" - as though Canadians should be offended. On top of it, they were portrayed as "queue jumpers" when they likely wouldn't have qualified for either immigration or refugee status. Why? Because our refugee determination policy ignores economic oppression, and if you're not rich with good English or French, you're not qualified to immigrate.

Let's be realistic here. Sure, it's a good idea for immigrants to know one of the official languages- but should it really be necessary? It isn't necessarily necessary for them, let's face it. Our local University is becoming renowned for a program that brings in international students to teach them english. Why is a university in the middle of nowhere able to do this? Because similar programs in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal just don't work, because it's not all that hard to get around in Cantonese or Mandarin if you're in these cities. So if we're all so tolerant and open minded, why is it required that a Chinese immigrant speak fluent English just to have the opportunity for the "privilege" of living here? Other than to not inconvenience Mr. White by subjecting him to - gasp! - either a strong accent or a foreign language, that's to say (Horror of horrors!).

Now consider that there are between 20 000 and 200 000 people in Canada living without status. I mentioned this in the forum about the Algerians that were brutalized by the power-hungry Ottawa Police. People without status are those who've come here, and filed a claim which has not been ruled on, an application(s) was turned down, or no claim has been made because of fear, misinformation, or a lack of assistance and resources. Also sometimes it's the result of a sponsorship or work permit arrangement which has broken down. Many come here on work permits, student or visitors visas, and decide to stay, but their documents have expired. If they try to make claims, many risk being deported, again to poverty and possible persecution. In Canada, they live without medical coverage, without social and citizenship rights. Many become exploited workers, as their bosses hold the threat of deportation over their heads. Indeed, much of the Ontario agricultural and construction idustries rely on non-status workers. If we live in such a just country, why does the government not regularize non-status immigrants so that they can finally be treated like human beings? It's not a new idea, and it doesn't pose a security risk.

At the recent CCR consultation, Bloc MP Madelaine Dalphond-Guiral made an important observation. The waves of immigration that built this country - from the turn of the century, to Trudeau's generation - were not the "best and brightest." They were the poor, ther persecuted, the risk-takers. The very people excluded from our system today. The people with diplomas stayed at home. We can't continue with this elitist Mulroney-Chrétien-Martin immigration policy, nor our newly reformed "none is too many" refugee policy.

From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 3838

posted 09 June 2003 02:14 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, agreed. Before my great-grandfather moved to Canada a hundred years ago, he was working as a janitor in Windsor, England. In fact, every branch of my family tree leads back ultimately to the English and/or Scottish poor & working classes. Had today's immigration rules been in effect back then, not a one of them would have been able to come here. (Which means, I suppose, that I would never have existed! )
From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 2999

posted 09 June 2003 03:06 AM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed to me. I lift the lamp beside the golden door."

I had a poster in university. Sometimes a refugee brings more than their belongings -- Einstein was a refugee. (of course that was a bit of a stretch, but it makes the point)

From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 2116

posted 09 June 2003 03:43 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard

Lou Reed "Dirty Boulevard"

From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 3787

posted 18 June 2003 11:09 PM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
let me try to bring a bit of balance. We should not think that there are only upsides to bringing in Immigrants.

Look what immigrants did to the aboriginal people. We only have to look in our own back yard, but we also see the problems it created in the Middle East or look to the former New Guinea, now part of Indonesia, or South America, Taiwan, just to mention a few.

Another aspect that I found troubling is, that often those people that immigrate are people sorely needed in their own country.

From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Babbler # 2938

posted 19 June 2003 11:21 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An outside view. Writer uses gay marriage issue as a springboard for discussion on how Canada has changed:

From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged

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