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Scientists believe a small population of migrants from Germany, Holland and Denmark established a segregated society when they arrived in England.

The researchers think the incomers changed the local gene pool by using their economic advantage to out-breed the native population.

The team tells a Royal Society journal that this may explain the abundance of Germanic genes in England today.

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Originally posted by Doug:
Which just goes to show how concepts of race change over time, since today most people would consider Celts (Britons) and Anglo-Saxons to be part of the same race.
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Originally posted by Doug:
Which just goes to show how concepts of race change over time, since today most people would consider Celts (Britons) and Anglo-Saxons to be part of the same race.

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I suppose they are. In fact, the entire 'race' idea in humans is completely arbitrary: scientifically, we're all one race.

The celts (ie britons) and germans (ie anglo-saxons) were two or the indo-european tribes which erupted from somewhere in central asia. They're vaguely related to each other, but not closely.

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Originally posted by S1m0n:

During the time of the saxon invasions, the native britons experienced the invaders as blonde giants.

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Originally posted by S1m0n:

I suppose they are. In fact, the entire 'race' idea in humans is completely arbitrary: scientifically, we're all one race.

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Originally posted by Doug:

You're confusing it with the Viking invaders a wee bit later on, who were the blonde giants.

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Originally posted by Yst:

The idea that dozens of kingdoms and tribes and family lines share a common interest due to shared genetic material strikes me as nonsensically foreign to the Anglo-Saxon notion of identity.

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And I believe the Celtic gene pool is widespread. They originated in N. India and spread out across the Mediterranean into Italy, N. Africa, Spain and British Isles. I believe they are the finer featured of us compared to the broad-featured Anglo-Saxon descendants. Nobody's pure anything anymore, we can be sure of that.

[ 19 July 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by S1m0n:

The Vikings and Saxons were closely related, being the north and west branches of the germanic people, respectively.

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I was told that true Vikings were from either Denmark or Norway, the original seafaring Vikings. I think there are some Norwegian names that almost sound German when pronounced but are spelled differently. But I imagine the German's could have had an adventuresome streak with some access to beach front property. Russian's are supposed to be a mix of Swedish Vikings and Mongols. Some relatives of mine sailed from Norway to South Yorkshire England about 500 years ago and have owned anywhere from three to five market garden-farms ever since, and there was no sacking or looting necessary.

[ 19 July 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

s1mon - I've never heard of the theory of the Germans being of Central Asian origin. Same goes for the British Celts.

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We believe that they also prevented the native British genes getting into the Anglo-Saxon population by restricting intermarriage in a system of apartheid that left the country culturally and genetically Germanised.

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"This is exactly what we see today - a population of largely Germanic genetic origin, speaking a principally German language."[/quote]

They must know about the Norman(Norse men) conquest in 1066 and English language being displaced for a couple of centuries, surely.

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And the region of Northumbria and Yorkshire Dales still bear a sizable number of locals with striking physical similarities - fair to Nordic blonde hair and blue eyes ie. Norwegian, Norwegian-Irish and Danish Vikings. They still eat Danish back bacon today in my family's town and where some of the orginal Norwegian place names are still used. Maltby and Stamford are more Anglo than Saxon.

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Interesting point, my father was adopted, but his pre-adoption name was "Osbourne," which is a name that has it's origins in Old Norse. Although, he didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes, but red hair (changed to brown) and blue eyes, which sounds like a Norse trait, but my experience in the study of genetic expression amongst European cultural groups is rather limited.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
They must know about the Norman(Norse men) conquest in 1066 and English language being displaced for a couple of centuries, surely.

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The other name for "Norse" is "North Germanic".

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Yes, Odin. There are a fair number of red-headed people in Scotland and Ireland, more than any place else in the world. There are some people in Ireland with Spanish-looking features(celtic I imagine), and the South of England you see some with what I think must be certain Mediterranean looks to them.

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Originally posted by Papal Bull:

I don't remember where I read this, but wasn't there a large group of Spainish that became part of the Irish population following the defeat of the Armada?

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Originally posted by Papal Bull:
s1mon - I've never heard of the theory of the Germans being of Central Asian origin.

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Originally posted by VanLuke:

The German language does belong to the Indo-European family, does it not?

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I've read something similar. Any group of people who blow on bagpipes have some ties to the Celts somewhere along the line, including the Roman's, and I imagine Spaniards as well who played bagpipes going into battle. I've listened to people from Wales speaking in a sing-song manner and I thought I was listening to Pakistani's for a moment.

DNA shows Scots and Irish should look to Spain for their ancestry

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Originally posted by Fidel:

I've read something similar. Any group of people who blow on bagpipes have some ties to the Celts somewhere along the line, including the Roman's, and I imagine Spaniards as well who played bagpipes going into battle. I've listened to people from Wales speaking in a sing-song manner and I thought I was listening to Pakistani's for a moment.

DNA shows Scots and Irish should look to Spain for their ancestry

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That there are a lot of Celts in Spain (Celta Vigo and Galician as an official language, etc) doesn't surprise me at all but that

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Originally posted by S1m0n:

The other name for "Norse" is "North Germanic".

The scandinavaians, the anglo-saxons, the germans and (now extict) Goths are the four branches of the Germanic peoples.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
I think the Saxons arrived in England more out of necessity than as conquerors. They were trying to avoid being overrun by the Hun's. The Saxon's were considered barbaric by Roman's, but at least they cooked their meat. The Hun's weren't bothered with barbequeing.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
[QB]

I've read something similar.

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It was a rhetorical question.

There is a very interesting dictionary by Langenscheidt called Dictionary of Indo-European Languages that I looked at three decades ago when I was a student. (I love languages)

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Originally posted by arborman:

Perhaps, but later on we discovered goulash, which makes up for a lot.

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Never had a Hungarian goulash. I've eaten the typical Irish stew and Cajun dishes with roux though. Yum!

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Originally posted by Boarsbreath:
Hey, forget about RACIAL cateories and mixes (notice how easy it is to talk as if once everyone was purely something...surely ancient Europeans-to-be were just as "mixed" on the steppes as they've become on the peninsula?)

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Originally posted by Papal Bull:

s1mon - I've never heard of the theory of the Germans being of Central Asian origin. Same goes for the British Celts.

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Originally posted by S1m0n:

Look up the indo-europeans. It's what people are talking about when they say "caucasian".

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I think you're confusing linguistics with heredity.

'Indo-European' refers to a language group that encompasses almost every European language (exceptions are Basque, Finnish, Hungarian, and a few minor ones in Russia), Iranian/Persian, and various central and south Asian languages including Sanskrit and its descendants.