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Author Topic: How to learn gardening from scratch
500_Apples
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posted 03 October 2008 01:38 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So I moved into a new place recently with a massive backyard, massive by the standards of what I'm used to. I thought it might be nice to grow a few things for kicks, and a bit of food could be good too once/if hyperinflation strikes.

I'm not sure what doesn't take years to grow... I assume herbs... maybe some plants/fruits though I doubt it.

So a few questions:

1) Any recommended easy how to guides?
2) Is there anything that needs to be done before the winter? I'm in columbus, ohio; we get snow here, though maybe half as much as what I'm used to.
3) Random tidbits?


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 03 October 2008 02:23 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to have cousins in Columbus, Ohio, and visited there quite often in the 60's and 70's.


Random tidbits:

From experience, if you intend to plant herbs, think of them as invasive weeds. Common Thyme, if left to go to seed will become quite a garden pest. So can mint, but this can be avoided if it is planted in a container. Mint spreads by rhisome. Be wary of any plant that spreads by rhisome. Sage is easily contained, and it's harvestable throughout the year, and the flowers are attractive. And garlic is more flavourful fresh from the garden-- though it takes two seasons before you can harvest it. But you can plant it late into the season.

Growing vegetables for economic reasons might actually not give you any cost benefit in an urban setting. A better way might be to learn more about food preservation, and take advantage of low prices at harvest times.

Of course, you cannot put a price on absolutely fresh stuff you grow yourself.

Economically, a herb garden might show a better cost benefit analysis, if you actually use them alot.

An easy way to brighten up a backyard is to throw wild flower mixes here and there. The time to do that is soon.

It's also the prime time to do weeding, if you disdain the use of chemicals and do it by hand.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 03 October 2008 02:35 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
1) Any recommended easy how to guides?

Any gardening centre will have gardening guides either free or at very low cost. I've been to Columbus, Ohio several times, and it's very hot there in the summer, so make sure you find out what growing zone you are in (I suspect it might be Zome 6 or higher). Get a guide suitable for your area.

Anytime you order from Vesys US you will get a small gardening guide - not very useful, but it's a start. And, almost everything on the Veseys website is prefaced with how to grow that item.


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 03 October 2008 02:42 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hot and humid, much like where I am, but if memory serves, worse.
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Boom Boom
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posted 03 October 2008 02:49 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, very humid. I spent a weekend at the estate of the tire baron in Columbus, when they had the annual summer festival. I think I lost almost ten pounds that weekend. I can look up the info on this if you're interested - I brought back lots of souvenirs.
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ElizaQ
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posted 03 October 2008 02:55 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you want something simple and easy check out the book, Square Foot Gardening or just look it up online. You don't need massive amounts of space to grow just a little food. This book makes the whole thing really, really easy as it lays out the planting plans and times step by step.

I'd also look up "No dig gardening" in google.

I'm a no dig gardener and I'd recommend looking into those techniques. For instance this fall you can pick out the places you want for your beds and lay down some sort of smothering material. Weed barrier, carpet or plastic. I get sheets of it free from the local lumber yard. Most just throw out the large wrappers that the lumber comes in and more then happy for you to take it because it cuts down on their disposal costs.

What happens is any grass or weeds are simply smothered and decompose into the soil adding to the organic matter, which is what you want anyways. Plus it doesn't disrupt the soil structure as much and can give you a bit of a head start on building your soil.

Then in the spring you pull up the material and like magic you have plain soil to work with and no sod to dig through. It saves a lot on what can be backbreaking work digging new beds. Then it depends on what kind of soil you have on how much loosening up you'll have to do to plant as well as other ammendments you might need.


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 03 October 2008 03:04 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rebecca West does most of the gardening around the house, and she's done wonders. She uses newspaper to smother grass and such, then puts topsoil over top. The newspaper eliminates all the grass and weeds, and slowly breaks down-- but as it does, helps with moisture retention.

I would double check to make sure the newspaper is printed with biodegradable inks. I'm not sure if that's industry standard now or not.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 03 October 2008 03:12 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm learning through practice and experimenting. One of the things I've noticed is that composting is really slow here, because the climate isn't warm enough - at least, I think that's the reason. I only had half as much compost this spring as I expected.

A friend has a huge tiller, so he tilled my garden last year and this. However, I'm hoping to buy the small Mantis tiller, so I can till the inside of the greenhouse, and some smaller gardens I have, that the big tiller can not get into.

I've learned that most folks here use seaweed for fertilizer, which is free - and I had a great garden this year after covering it with seaweed last fall.

There's a local peat moss supply on the island, tons of it, all free, but it's a lot work to dig up by hand - the mossy ground is too soft to get a vehicle or power equipment in, so after digging up the peat moss you need, you then have to wheelbarrow it about 300 yards to your vehicle. A lot of work!

There's no cost benefit to all this gardening for me - it's a labour of love, and something to do in my retirement. As I mentioned in another thread, I give about 60% of my produce away to friends and neighbours for all the help they give me in the year.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 03 October 2008 03:46 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've heard of using seaweed as fertilizer, but wondered about accumulated salt. Do you let it get rained on first, to wash it Boom Boom?

A yard in an established urban area of Columbus should have a good number of hardwoods that people have planted over the years. Composting leaves in that climate would garner quick results. If that is being started from scratch, one might buy some innoculant from the garden or hardware store. It's bacteria that speeds the breakdown, particularly if you follow the usual technique and stagger the brown leaves with green material, if one has any.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 03 October 2008 04:35 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, any salt gets washed away quickly. Folks here have been using seaweed for fertilizer for decades.
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bagkitty
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posted 03 October 2008 05:01 PM      Profile for bagkitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What the others have said about mint... wickedly invasive be careful.

You might consider planting some Bee Balm (Bergamot -- monarda didyma), it is a hardy perennial with bright blooms, attracts pollinators to your garden, and its leaves (fresh or dried) can be used to make tea. (Note, bergamot is also the name of a citrus fruit that gives Earl Grey tea its flavour, Bee Balm is a separate plant). Nastursiums are also useful (flowers are edible and brighten up a salad, slight peppery taste) -- they are not perennial, but produce substantial seeds that you can use the following spring.

As for tidbits... if you are harvesting seeds from any annuals (vegetables or flowers), they are best stored in a cool dark place... like a refrigerator. A word of warning, whole produce items (especially apples) give off gases which can inhibit germination of seeds so make certain if you are storing seeds in your fridge to keep them in a totally airtight container, preferably glass. Don't store your seeds in the freezer.

[ 03 October 2008: Message edited by: bagkitty ]


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500_Apples
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posted 05 October 2008 09:20 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks !
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Boom Boom
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posted 05 October 2008 10:47 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Veseys says about Bee Balm: Perennial - Zones 4-10. Also known as Bergamot. Prefers a sunny location or in part-day shade in a fertile soil that holds moisture well.

I'm in Zone 3a, but I'll try growing it anyway. I have just enough space for a new plant variety.


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bagkitty
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posted 05 October 2008 11:42 AM      Profile for bagkitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Go for the Bee Balm, most varieties are hardy in Zone 3. Just make certain there is snow cover on it to insulate it from winds over the winter (shovel more snow on it if the cover starts getting patchy). Also, make certain not to plant it too close together, it is susceptible to powdery mildew if the air can't circulate well during the growing season, while it will grow in partial shade, does best in full sun (which also reduces the chances of powdery mildew).
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Boom Boom
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posted 05 October 2008 02:33 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks - but no problem with snow cover here!
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ebodyknows
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posted 05 October 2008 04:41 PM      Profile for ebodyknows   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fruit trees might take a bit of time to start producing but that is not a reason to not plant them. Thinking about the environment isn't helped by a gratification now kind of mentality.

I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has benefited a lot from the efforts of apricot/pear/apple/service berry/ mullberry planters of yesterday this summer. I've been harvesting urban fruit through http://www.notfarfromthetree.org. I discovered even a fairly small tree that the current owners don't really give any attention to can yield an incredible amount of food. Typically one tree provided a bounty to be shared between home owners an entire team of volunteers and donations to 3rd parties. Fruit trees are awesome.

Second, while there is a lot of talk warning about invasive plants it might be another strategy to use the quick growing wide spreading low maintenance qualities of certain plants to your advantage. If your not worried about growing a wide varierty of things in neatly kept boundries why not let something go wild and reap the benefits of its prolificness. I'd suggest amaranth as a plant to look into.

Third, how about opening up the space to the community? Maybe there are more experienced gardners around you who are looking for a place to grow. I find gardening with others pleasing as a social activity plus everyone benefits from each others knowledge and skill base.

Check this out for inspiration: http://www.sharingbackyards.com/browse/Vancouver,BC&welcome_box=3

[ 05 October 2008: Message edited by: ebodyknows ]


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Boom Boom
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posted 05 October 2008 07:33 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of our Lower North Shore communities, Chevery, (and maybe others as well) has an excellent community garden program, and has seniors involved as well. I'm going to suggest we try a community gardening program here in Kegaska as well.
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al-Qa'bong
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posted 05 October 2008 07:34 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I broke a new backyard a few years back. The first thing I did was to get out my spade and start digging. I turned over the patch I wanted to garden the fall before planting. In the spring I hauled in two half-ton loads of manure and spread it over everywhere.

I pretty well proceeded as I would have normally done from there.

If I were in your position I'd put in some potatoes, peas, green beans, lettuce, tomatoes and zucchini. There are usually never-fail veggies so you will probably have decent production in the first year.

You can grow herbs any old place, including planters, so don't use up garden space with them, unless you're growing basil. I devote quite a bit of the garden to my basil, but I'm mad about pesto.


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SwimmingLee
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posted 06 October 2008 12:02 PM      Profile for SwimmingLee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
2 of the most educational things i've done, gardening wise -

* took a class in composting at the local junior college. A combination of theoretical work & field work & tour of a commercial facility that processes 300 tons a day of yard waste.
* joined a community garden. The garden in San Francisco was started on a one acre lot with sand & ice-plant as a starting point, in about 1970. They started out by trucking in finished compost & had fertile soil in 3 years. Now the soil is primo, helped along by earthworms & snails.


From: LASIK-FLap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 06 October 2008 12:05 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a composter that is basically a black plastic cube, and it's a very slow composter. Veseys now sell a cylindrical composter mounted on bearings and the entire thing rotates - as do the contents - when you give it a spin, and composting is much faster than the traditional stationary composters. I'd love to get one, and keep the old one as well.
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ebodyknows
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posted 06 October 2008 08:51 PM      Profile for ebodyknows   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and if we are talking urban gardening without much space then worms in box(es) under the sink can do some impressive work.

http://www.yougrowgirl.com/garden/vermicomposting.php


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SwimmingLee
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posted 07 October 2008 08:17 AM      Profile for SwimmingLee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Earthworms (and the red worms used in Vermiculture) are very impressive to me. There's not many animals that can convert dirt into a form of protein that is edible by humans.

With cows, the dirt is a food source for a plant that is a food source for an animal that is a food source for some human beings.

Or, for human vegetarians, the dirt is a food source for plants, grains & legumes, which - given enough water and energy in the form of sunshine - become a food source for humans.

Yet, the lowly worm, without any additional energy inputs, is somehow able to convert dirt into protein. Admittedly, not many of us would jump at the chance to eat "pesto sauteed earthworms" - but that's more of a cultural thing. Some of us are willing to pay big bucks for the near equivalent in the form of escargot.

[ 07 October 2008: Message edited by: SwimmingLee ]


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ebodyknows
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posted 07 October 2008 08:36 AM      Profile for ebodyknows   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SwimmingLee:
"pesto sauteed earthworms" - but that's more of a cultural thing.

You don't happen to have a recipe do you?


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2008 01:42 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you can eat them raw, enjoy shiny spandex, then you can likely get a job with Vince McMahon on WWE....

Seems to me gardners spend alot of time and effort on composting.

I used to, until one day I realized that all I want to happen is for stuff to rot outside. which, it will do.

I put it in a pile and leave it alone, now. The only thing I add is patience.


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Boom Boom
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posted 07 October 2008 03:54 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
I put it in a pile and leave it alone, now. The only thing I add is patience.


That invites mice, rats, crows, ravens, and other nasties.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2008 04:08 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, I should have qualified that. I don't put kitchen waste in that compost pile. It's just for leaves (not that many since I got the mulching mower) and stuff I cut down in late fall, and spent potting soil etc.
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Boom Boom
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posted 07 October 2008 04:18 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's mulch better. My composter takes everything except animal matter and grease, but mostly vegetable peelings (from today's 50 pounds of carrots for example) along with all the stuff I left in the garden. No leaves here, but lots of other stuff.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2008 04:39 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've never quite got the hang of composting the day to day kitchen waste. I'd like to put things like today's sweet potato peelings (Rebecca West made sweet potato soup tonight, with ginger, and garum masala. Yum) on the back garden, but it tends to bring the local skunk into the yard more often if I do that.

Although, I do have remedies for skunk spray, as Spike our cat got sprayed earlier this summer, but it's a hassle I can do without.

Never had too much problems with vermin. Skunks aren't that bad-- unless you have an adventurous cat, or a dog. (Zoetheevilandsataniccatfromthedeepestpitsofhell is our other cat, but she and skunks get along splendidly)

Mice, well... as long as they stay outside, I don't have a problem with them. And, they stay outside. Yellow Jackets have been a problem here, but I've learned a few tricks in controlling them over the years. I've never seen a politically incorrect rat in all my years in this house, but we have the politically correct kind-- squirrels. They are increadible pests, to be sure. There are ways to discourage them, but other than killing them there is no sure way of stopping them from damaging a garden.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 October 2008 05:30 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:

Seems to me gardners spend alot of time and effort on composting.

I put it in a pile and leave it alone, now. The only thing I add is patience.


I just throw stuff on the surface of the garden then dig it in. Everything disappears in two weeks. Worms love the spots where I dig rotten stuff in.


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Boom Boom
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posted 07 October 2008 07:22 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I bought a plastic compost bin last year; I throw stuff in it, wait until the following spring, then empty the contents on my garden. Hardly much of an effort I'd say.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
SwimmingLee
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posted 08 October 2008 12:39 PM      Profile for SwimmingLee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ebodyknows:
You don't happen to have a recipe do you?

The one time I actually did eat earthworms, I followed Mary Poppins' advice and washed them down with a spoonful of sugar (well, actually, i used honey).


From: LASIK-FLap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
bagkitty
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posted 08 October 2008 12:55 PM      Profile for bagkitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Recipes here. Apparently the trick is to cook the worms and turn them into a protein flour.
From: Calgary | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged

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