Author
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Topic: weather modification
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 03 July 2005 02:14 AM
Any babblers here trained in atmospheric physics? Air traffic control? Aerial spraying?It would be nice to garner some observations and opinions on the topic of chemtrails/contrails as they relate to weather modification. There are numerous sites on the Web that monitor and discuss this phenomenon, but many veer toward the wacky, which generally gives the whole topic the dismissive label of 'conspiracy theory'. I would be interested in informed discussions on this. Given that weather modification does exist (google it), I am curious to know who else notices that the skies - anywhere, not just Vancouver, but even Manitoba now - are never clear anymore (not for more than a day anyway), and that the 'contrails' we see lingering for hours and spreading into cirrus-like cloud cover are formed by aircraft that are not generally departing from major airports, and that fly in patterns (parallel lines, large arcs, and criss-cross) that don't make a lot of sense either recreationally or transportationally. Not only that, but it's extremely rare to find clouds of a single kind in the skies anymore. There is always the presence, even on what are supposed to be fair weather days with clear blue skies and fluffy cumulus clouds, of the stringy, wispy clouds that look asymmetrical and unrelated to whatever the real weather is doing. As if there is always some low pressure zone moving in, and sure enough, there always seems to be. We already know the contrail theory (that these are just unfortunate, but normal patterns of airplane engine emissions). This theory has never been able to explain why an airplane departing from an airport and ascending to a particular altitude will not leave a contrail, when one flying overhead (from - where? god only knows), minutes before, at the same altitude, will. Nor does it explain why some contrails will have clean breaks in their engine plumes, like a knife has cut it. Nor does it explain the sometimes outrageous flight patterns that these contrails belies There are a lot of theories as to what "chem-trails" are, the closest in plausibility and to my own observations are that it has something to do with cloud and weather control. If you don't believe me, (and I would hope I'm merely being paranoid, but paranoia alone does not seem to be able to explain this) just start checking out the skies on clear days, wherever you are, and see how long the sky stays clear, see what kinds of trails certain aircraft are leaving, see what normal contrails look like and do (ie; dissipate) and watch what the abnormal ones do over a few hours.
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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ephemeral
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8881
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posted 03 July 2005 08:54 AM
ooh, i love this topic. although, i know next to nothing about contrails to contribute anything useful to this thread. i am interested in seeing what everyone else has to say.for sure, i watch the skies. i observe the trails left behind by aeroplanes all the time. they look light and fluffy just like clouds, instead of grey and toxic like fumes coming out of cars. edit: what are 'normal' contrails, and what are 'abnormal' contrails? all the ones i've seen gradually disappear. [ 03 July 2005: Message edited by: ephemeral ]
From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005
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Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787
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posted 04 July 2005 12:25 AM
My understanding is that water vapour can often remain as tiny water droplets in clean air even when the temperature drops far below the freezing point of water. When now an airplane flies through this supercooled water vapour the particles that come from the plane will aid in the formation of ice cristals. I have seen it a few times in the Arctic that the airport was clear before a plane would land or take off and be fog bound after a plane landed or had taken off. I have even done it with a skidoo, turn a few wide circles, when the right weather conditions exist, and you can create your own fog bank. I have lived off and on for the last 30 years in central Ontario and cannot say that the weather has changed that much as far as cloud cover is concerned. The sun often seems more intence, but that could be because of airpolution , which seems to have increased a lot. I used to work for Environment Canada as a weather observer many years ago.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 04 July 2005 04:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by Bubbles: I used to work for Environment Canada as a weather observer many years ago.
Hmm, you might be a good one to talk to then. As for the scientific info on contrails, yes, it all makes sense. What doesn't make sense is the patterns some of this air traffic leaves in the skies at odd times: grid (?!)(what could possibly cause air traffic to move in grid formations?), criss cross, parallel lines, and frequently, if not usually, NOT originating from the vicinity of airports. Patterns not resembling those of commercial flights, particularly because the proximity in time and distance between one trail to another seems to be too dangerous for it to be common practice. In the country I have sometimes seen a plane travel in steep arc from the ground (not the troposphere) to a very high altitude for some distance, then descend quite rapidly again, leaving a persistent contrail in its wake - onbe that lingers or spreads. This can be over water or over land. Secondly, has jet traffic really increased that much in the last ten years? Seems people were using airplanes as much in the 70's and 80's as they have been lately. The onus is on those of us who are concerned to get photographic or video evidence of this, which I started to do last summer.
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787
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posted 06 July 2005 01:13 AM
Parallel lines are not that hard to explain. If you have planes aproach an airport at , let us say 5 minute intervals, then the upper winds will shift the contrail before the next plane comes in along that same route. And if the contrail will persist for some time then you can see a few running parallel.Also the upper winds can be very different at different altitudes. I used to release upper-air radiosondes (weather balloons) and I have seen balloons that were carried 200km away from the weather station only to be blown right back by winds at higher altutude. An other complication can be caused by several layers of saturated moist air interspersed with layers of drier air. Posibly causing interruptions in a contrail. We used to have to report contrails in our hourly weather report, so I suspect that if there was an increase in the number of contrails then one should be able to find that our by comparing current contrail frequency with past frequency. In the past the planes were smaller, now fewer planes carry more pasengers, so the flight frequency might not be all that different.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 07 July 2005 07:44 PM
Thanks, Bubbles. I would genuinely be happy to learn that there is nothing sinister going on. If I have more time, I might try to find some of the wackier contrail pictures out there (on the Web), and see if there are convincing explanations for them. The problem is, there could always be a reasonable explanation for them, and to try to otherwise makes one look like a kook.Regarding Forum Observer's National Weather Service link: quote: Contrails can be found over most of the planet. Now that jet plane traffic, both civilian and military, can be at anyplace over the globe at anytime, contrails are becoming more and more common.....
A paranoiac might draw attention to the words "civilian AND military"... could this not also be used to strengthen my argument? If weather modification experiments were being conducted by by militaries or secret branches of gov't, wouldn't the National Weather Service be very interested in disspelling myths about 'chemtrails'? ... (ie; why would we necessarily trust this source?)
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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jas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9529
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posted 08 July 2005 08:26 AM
Saw a news item (CBC?) a few weeks ago about the melting of the polar ice caps, and the interest there is now in this new accessibility to Arctic oil and mineral reserves.We know HAARP can be applied to detect underground reserves, can it be used to melt ice caps too? Some random selections on HAARP, while we're on the subject. Not necessarily the best ones, I was just fishing around... "....1945: Atomic bomb tests begin 40,000 electromagnetic pulses to follow. 1952: W.O. Schumann identifies 7.83 hertz resonant frequency of the earth. 1958: Van Allen radiation belts discovered (zones of charged particles trapped in earths magnetic field) 2,000+ miles up. Violently disrupted in the same year. 1958: Project Argus, U.S. Navy explodes 3 nuclear bombs in Van Allen belt. 1958: White House advisor on weather modification says Defense Dept. studying ways to manipulate charges "of earth and sky, and so affect the weather" 1960: Series of weather disasters begin. 1961?: Copper needles dumped into ionosphere as "telecommunications shield". 1961: Scientists propose artificial ion cloud experiments. In 1960's the dumping of chemicals (barium powder etc.) from satellites/rockets began. 1961-62: Soviets and USA blast many EMPs in atmosphere, 300 megatons of nuclear devices deplete ozone layer by about 4%. 1962: Launch of Canadian satellites & start of stimulating plasma resonances by antennas within the space plasma.6...." http://www.2012.com.au/HAARP.html "As known in plasma physics, the characteristics of a plasma can be altered by adding energy to the charged particles or by ionizing or exciting additional particles to increase the density of the plasma. One way to do this is by heating the plasma which can be accomplished in different ways, e.g., ohmic, magnetic compression, shock waves, magnetic pumping, electron cyclotron resonance, and the like. ...Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device." (Excerpts from original HAARP technology patent) http://www.bariumblues.com/haarp_patent.htm "World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that 'US military scientists are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth's atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods.' Already in the 1970s, former National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski had foreseen in his book "Between Two Ages" that: Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised... [T]echniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm." And finally from an Air Force study : "US aerospace forces to 'own the weather' by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies to war-fighting applications. From enhancing friendly operations or disrupting those of the enemy via small-scale tailoring of natural weather patterns to complete dominance of global communications and counterspace control, weather-modification offers the war fighter a wide-range of possible options to defeat or coerce an adversary... In the United States, weather-modification will likely become a part of national security policy with both domestic and international applications. Our government will pursue such a policy, depending on its interests, at various levels." http://batr.org/gulag/010103.html
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005
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forum observer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7605
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posted 08 July 2005 12:06 PM
I mean sure, if your seeing conspiracy theories at work, you tend to focus on what we are capable of doing, and all of a sudden you think "enviromental terrorism."You have got to read Michael Crichtons new book then and the State of Fear. How terrorism had moved to the skies(climate) in the attempt to oversee battle warfair that had always taken place on a two dimensinal grid. Amercians captialize on this now, with Airpower, disruption of commuciations and now....starving the country? This might be getting out of hand? All in all, interesting speculations and questions raised. Blackline Phenomena So what is it that could change things ahead of the plane, and leave a trail behind it?? Some warp drive ship maybe? Okay, based on the same principle anyway? Can punch a hole in the atmosphere? There are several HF transmitters located throughout the world which conduct research similar to that proposed by HAARP. However, no facility, located either in the U.S. or elsewhere, has the transmitting capability needed to address the broad range of research goals which HAARP proposes to study. The most capable HF transmitters currently operating are located in Russia and Norway and have effective radiated powers (ERP) of roughly one billion watts (1 gigawatt). One gigawatt of ERP represents an important threshold power level, allowing significant radio wave generation and analysis of key ionospheric phenomena. The HAARP facility is designed to have an ERP above one gigawatt. This would elevate the United States to owning and operating the world's most capable ionospheric research instrument.
The "Faraday Cage" is always a interesting analogy for me. In reading about diamagnetic properties of quartz, looking at this as a disturbance in the orientation of the field lines, I couldn't help but wonder about the analogistic behaviors of the human mind in it's applicability, assigned to different venues. A chaldni plate becomes interesting in this regard as well, if you understand my comparison Flying grid patterns? Haarp lines in Alaska? I think I should write a science fiction book? I mean think about it. If you can punch a hole how would it look? It's applying what you learn and using it to see situations in different ways? Some are not capable of doing this, and are stagnated to certain frames of references. Getting Around The Coriolis Force
[ 08 July 2005: Message edited by: forum observer ]
From: It is appropriate that plectics refers to entanglement or the lack thereof, | Registered: Dec 2004
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forum observer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7605
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posted 08 July 2005 01:24 PM
Some are indeed intrigued by the mysticism brought to view about Leys lines(I have a historical perspective as well). But if you really think about it, and apply the skeptic to this, you have to take this and dialogue it to a deeper understanding. There are not enough people here with the knoweldge to do this unfortunately, and it all seems like a foreign language. So they label you right away as direahia mouth and that sort of thing without really understanding how pervasive a ideology had been built. Even when it applies to other areas, and their areas of expertise "seemingly." Who is going to bring it together? Disjoined facts, that on first glance make no sense? John Briggs link I gave, supports this view of Bohm, and of course, we all like to think we can help to make this possible. And we do, each in our own way by breaking the gap in the brain's field, to allow new information to pour in? Another analogy of course but new ideas are sort of like that and initiate all kinds of new neuron path developements
From: It is appropriate that plectics refers to entanglement or the lack thereof, | Registered: Dec 2004
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forum observer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7605
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posted 09 July 2005 03:33 PM
Thanks for acknowledging, however confusing this contribution I make is Would this help?
Because of the work to understand general relativity you cannot but help go through these processes to understand the completed work, not just in a geometrical undestanding, but to engage this in our real world too.
I have worked to express this in a greater context, and this material presented, is just one aspect of a larger picture that can be used to see your issue in a different light. A long time ago I read about Tesla and one of the long standing ideas that was triggered in my mind was the oscillation that can be created. For instance the idea of miss stepping soldiers who cross a bridge? Why is this? This sets up the question about zero point. The quantum harmonic oscillator, and the basis of this determination held to all things expressed. So you learn to see differently, and incorporate all of Faraday, Maxwell, and Einstein into a larger picture? Satellite measure with laser application from ground based versus Grace sateliitle measures helps you to think about what has been encompassed in Einstein's review. This can be taken further. Thales of Miletus gives you a common base to work from, to see time variable measures in a new light, as well in a global perspective. That's what happens when you look at this issue you present in the light I am offering. Those particle people understand their role in this picture. At least, some of them do WE just need them to work in our everydasy world and some of them do. Again Pierre Auger experiment is another version of the particle theorist format, yet he deals realistically with what they can do in experimental processes just on another pallete. If you include gravity in that picture, there is a new issue here to consider. Another time maybe in this aspect. [ 09 July 2005: Message edited by: forum observer ]
From: It is appropriate that plectics refers to entanglement or the lack thereof, | Registered: Dec 2004
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Bubbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3787
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posted 17 July 2005 01:27 AM
jas, her is an excerpt from a little study that seems to backup my memory about having more contrails in winter. I would have included the web site, but for some reasom Babble systems seems to have trouble digesting that bit of data.".......over the continental United States. During both years, persistent contrails are most prevalent in the winter and early spring and are seen least often during the summer. They co-occur with cirrus clouds 85% of the time. The annual mean persistent contrail frequencies in unobscured skies dropped from 0.152 during 1993–94 to 0.124 in 1998–99 despite a rise in air traffic. Mean hourly contrail frequencies reflect the pattern of commercial air traffic, with a rapid increase from sunrise to midmorning followed by a very gradual decrease during the remaining daylight hours. Although highly......" It was from a two year study done by the weather service in the USA, I believe.
From: somewhere | Registered: Feb 2003
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