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Author Topic: If I could hack . . .
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 29 August 2003 01:43 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The recent virus/worm attack has me wondering why the nerds who manufacture these things don't have any political motives. Why send out random attacks when there are so many real targets. So I have been thinking about what I would do if I could hack.

For a start, I'd hack into the White House and find out just exactly the President knew about Osama Bin Laden's intentions during the week prior to 9/11/2001.

And I'd hack into Bush's fortune and steal enough to provide healthy pensions for the relatives of all those he executed while Governor of Texas.

And I'd hack into CNN and FOX and broadcast the rest of the news; the stuff they don't want Americans to see.

And I'd hack into Lockheed and make it very difficult for them to manufacture all those weapons.

And I'd hack into the drug companies and reduce their exorbitant prices.

This could be a very long list.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 29 August 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Read up on 128-bit encryption. While 56-bit encryption (the previous standard) was hacked in about 3 months by 30,000 computers working in parallel, it's been estimated that to hack into a document that's been encrypted with 128-bit encryption would take longer than the current age of the universe.

And it's safe to assume that anything of any real value or importance such as you describe is probably encrypted.

(We now return you to the fantasy already in progress... )


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2836

posted 29 August 2003 02:47 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps the term you are looking for is hacktivism. Lots has been written on the topic, and a number of attempts applied.

Often, computers with very sensitive data are very limited in their network connectivity. But, there are other things.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
spatrioter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2299

posted 29 August 2003 02:50 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I'd send a worm into the computer of my number one enemy (who thinks I'm his friend, so it would be easy to do) -- I'd then do nasty things.

Hmm... Maybe I should call up my computer nerd friends tonight.


From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Foxer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4251

posted 29 August 2003 02:51 PM      Profile for Foxer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why don't you just break into those places and beat their systems up with a base ball bat? It's easier and just about as legal and ethical
From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3674

posted 29 August 2003 02:52 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hacktivismo is an interesting group to check out.

they developed software to break down state-run censorship in china.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
kuba walda
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3134

posted 29 August 2003 02:56 PM      Profile for kuba walda        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would hack into my Student Loan loan file and stamp paid in full.
From: the garden | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 29 August 2003 03:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd just put an Aircare qualification on my car and save myself the $24. It passed last year, anyway!
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 30 August 2003 12:07 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. Magoo is right: for me this is fantasy. I just like to dream big. I don't think the 128-bit encryption is as much of an obstacle as it looks like. Most invasions go in through inadvertant holes and backdoors, left open by busy employees with sloppy habits. I used to have a back door into Microsoft's download databank; which meant that I didn't have to register and log in every time I needed a patch. Not a big security breach as they go, however there are always back doors. If there weren't, the employees would never get anything done.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 30 August 2003 12:34 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Want to know why the targets are random? Its easier that way. Those self-proclaimed MaStor HaXoRs who think they are big are either too stupid or too lazy, probably both, to figure out how to actually hack into something challenging. More than likely, they just spread it via email. Worms like that are not hard to make compared to what it would take to get past all the US gov't compter security systems.
From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 30 August 2003 06:07 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gir Draxon, I agree with you. These things generally turn out to be juvenile pranks. The latest one was done by an 18 year old. For some idiot reason, most of the worms attack Microsoft, which I don't understand. Just what has MS done to warrant it? Even though I use Linux, I still think that MS has done a lot of good for the home computer user; it just doesn't deserve the attacks.

However, there are some really bad dudes out there who deserve everything that can be hurled at them. And, because I'm basically non-violent, I think along the line of frustrating them. A worm that would shut off military spy satellites appeals to me much more than bombs and missiles.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 31 August 2003 12:36 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Virii as weapons? Thats a good idea Cougyr. Although I would be surprised if the US military didn't already have a library of worms in case they have to fight countries using post-soviet era technology.

Why microsoft? Because the security holes are relatively easy to exploit. Although I give them credit for stepping up their efforts lately. But Win95 computers at one time were easy pickings for "hackers".

I don't like calling teen pranksters who write worms "hackers" because that implies that they have skills that I don't have now and couldn't aquire in a couple months if I had enough motivation and of course that I lose all my morals.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 31 August 2003 01:03 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why microsoft? Because the security holes are relatively easy to exploit.

Don't ignore the numbers. If you want to send a worm out into the world to infect a large number of computers, you'd better make it target the operating system most people use, right? Not much point writing a BEOS-specific worm.

There's also a great deal of resentment towards Microsoft and Bill Gates. He's pretty rich after all, so he must be a bad person, right? People seem to prefer to target the most successful: Coke, McDonalds, Nike, Microsoft... good news for whoever is in second place, I guess.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 31 August 2003 12:20 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kuba walda:
I would hack into my Student Loan loan file and stamp paid in full.

Yes!!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 31 August 2003 12:24 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I read a really interesting article in Harvard Business Review a couple of weeks ago (not sure which issue - they have them at work), and it was about how computer hackers breach corporate security these days more through confidence tricks than through coding. They do it by getting unwitting employees to divulge passwords to them while pretending to be their bosses' bosses, that kind of thing. It was so interesting - the kind of confidence and "suaveness" you'd need to pull that kind of thing off isn't what you'd normally consider to be the stereotypical computer nerd's hacking tools, you know?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 31 August 2003 01:40 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, you hit the problem on the head. It's just too easy to get passwords. These days we have passwords and pin numbers for just about everything. I'can't remember them all. So what I do is list them all on a card that I keep under my keyboard. Stupid I agree, but the alternative is going back to using cash and snail mail. Hey, I have trouble remembering my password to get onto Babble.

Gir Draxon, I don't like calling those guys "hackers" either, but don't have a better term.

Yes, I realise that using MS Windows is the best way to spread the virus/worm, but why MS as the target? There are much better targets.

BTW, my wife's Windows 95 is now too old to be infected by these new worms.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 31 August 2003 01:57 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cougyr, if you apply all the patches, Win95 is indeed pretty darn-all secure. Using Mozilla as the browser and keeping IE3 around as a keepsake means you don't get any of that IE4+ BS integrating itself into the OS (though a quick launch bar is handy as hell) so everything's swifter.

Michelle, you may be interested to know that hackers use the term "social engineering" for the confidence tricks pulled to get information. So when you say you "social-engineered" a password it means you sweet-talked or conned someone into giving it up


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
batz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3824

posted 12 September 2003 11:56 AM      Profile for batz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All of those wishes you might have if you could hack assume that being able to control machines is a way to control people.

Even if you could hack a bank (it's only about as difficult as robbing one) and transfer away someones fortunes, they are insured, they have more where that came from, and if you piss them off enough, they will come after you.

The recent spate of internet worms has crippled the very networks you talk about, but the organizations and systems persist.

Hacktivism isn't really an effective tool unless you broaden its definition to include things like stealing a draft of WTO negotiating documents from a car, leaking evidence of corruption, things that real journalists do every day.

There are lots of people with both the political leanings and skill to do all the things you describe above, but when it comes down to it, doing them wouldn't make a difference.

"Cyberterrorism" is a ridiculous buzzword that has been bandied about over the last 6 years or so. It has alot in common with hacktivism, not because activism is anything like terrorism, but because of the abstracted "cyber" component.

First, the notion of cyberterrorism undermines the seriousness and grief of anyone who has lost someone to a bomber.

Second, the real risk of "cyberterror" is null, as for $10,000, the cost of someone with real hacking skills for a couple of weeks work, there is ample evidence that the money is more effectively spent on plane tickets and box cutters. It doesn't stand up to the cost/benefit analysis when deciding to commit horrors on that scale.

Similarly with cracking banks, you can inconvenience some bank IT and fraud department employees, risk some disproportionate consequences for what might, if you are lucky, amount to your enemies credit card being declined at a restaraunt.

People may use machines to affect change, but changing machines does very little to affect people.

It should be conspicuous that you never hear activists saying, "If only we had locksmiths, then we would be invincible!".

Good luck anyway


From: elsewhere | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged

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