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Author Topic: Brilliant Compensation
prince
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Babbler # 1341

posted 10 December 2002 05:45 PM      Profile for prince     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Check it out.

This will make you say Wow.


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 10 December 2002 06:47 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, for pete's sake. Do you have to flog this multilevel marketing stuff?

I knew you were up to something with that 500 bucks a month BS.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 10 December 2002 06:52 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To be honest, I assumed prince was drawing our attention to the presentation technology which was neat.

The content though was a different matter. How to "work the system" instead of how to create a system that works.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
prince
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1341

posted 10 December 2002 07:58 PM      Profile for prince     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dr Conway

I was expecting a more educated response to the video presentation. Especially from someone whose interest is economics. I doubt you even bothered to listen to the whole presentation.

I will reserve explanation of my motives or my "up to something" for the future. Assuming of course I have any agenda at all.

But I will say that this video has more options for the people of Canada than "We will tax the hell out of the bastards."


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 11 December 2002 04:04 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha Ha! That was hysterical. Sorry Prince, I'm sure you're sincere in your enthusiasm but the world doesn't need more pyramid schemes. If you truly believe in the opportunities, Amway is waiting for your call. After all, it does work for some (a slim minority).

I love their term for profiting from the labour of others: leverage. But don't worry, it's not unfair because you can profit from others' labour beneath you and they can do the same beneath them. One big happy family of exploitation!

The problem with this and all pyramid schemes (including capitalism itself) is the first point they bring up. Number one: a huge and expanding market. When you are lucky enough to come across a huge and expanding market, which is quite rare, it doesn't stay huge and expanding for long. Nothing just keeps growing and growing. There is an ebb in every tide. So what happens to this network of agents when the ebb comes? Why, the bottom rungs are all majorly shafted, of course. This is a common occurence in many markets.

The perfect example is Enron, where they faked numbers to keep the boom going, leading to a spectacular shafting in the end. This was just an exaggerated version of capitalism at work.

Of course, the shafting cycle has been significantly moderated by the rise of unions, who protect their workers from spurious dismissals (or at least, ought to) and require companies to think beyond the next financial statement, since they are limited in how capriciously they can hire and fire.

Not so with network marketing. They try to make it sound as if they they are providing limitless opportunity by making everyone a "broker", but in fact they are just making it easy for them to cut you loose when the expansion for a particular business deal runs out. They practically admit that a stable market is no good for them because then their pyramid structure becomes "unfair" again, since there is no way for the bottom rungs to draw in new agents under them.

This is the essence of the "capitalism as piracy" model. These people ARE the problem. Find where there's money to be made. swoop in for the expansion period. hire nobody, but draw in "free agents". When the expansion period ends, pull out (collapsing everything on the not-really-underlings, who no longer have a way to make money). Then do it all over again somewhere else.

If the prospect of an economy full of quickly rising and folding enterprises manipulated by hit-and-run capitalists doesn't excite you, then welcome to the club. A stable economy is all about stable enterprises, not economic chaos. When I need a good or service, I shouldn't have to hunt down whatever flash-in-the-pan venture-capital firm is providing it this month. Who will vouch for their quality? Where is the accountability?

Of course, for people like the presenters, the system really does work. Loaded with connections and money, they will always be at the top of any pyramid. They'll make their fortunes, regardless of the consequences to the consumers or the people sucked into their schemes.

If you really want to be successful, Prince, I suggest you start thinking of other measures of success besides becoming a modern-day aristocrat. The people who are actually at the top just use these desires to rob and exploit you. Join with your hard-working brothers and sisters who actually do some good in this world producing things people need and work for a world with no aristocrats at all.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 11 December 2002 08:38 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, but Jacob, then Amway wouldn't pull in any suckers at all

(Incidentally, if you google for "Amway scam", you get a million and one pages about the misfeasances and malfeasances of Amway, and the interesting common denominator is the incredibly open exploitation of personal relationships and personal time that Amway requires of all of its people. The other interesting common denominator is just how much Amway represents the absolute worst features of capitalism run amok. Grow, grow, grow is the mantra. Nothing is to be left standing in the way of this growth - not personal time, not your marriage, not your kids, not even you. You are regularly told in the Amway cult that if you're not a success, it's because you are a failure. You have not worked hard enough, or shown the plan (STP) enough times, or bought enough BV or PV (Business Volume, Personal Volume), or whatever. It is never ever countenanced that Amway is deliberately set up, again in an exaggerated distorted form of capitalism, so that the odds of success simply are way too low. The Amway system is designed from top to bottom to be rigged against about 98% of all new entrants. Only a vanishing few ever "Go Diamond". The same principle applies to any multi-level marketing setup.)

In conclusion, the odds of hitting the jackpot are actually better if you take all the money Amway wants you to put on BV and PV and the tapes and the tools, and put all that whack of money into slot machines.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
prince
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Babbler # 1341

posted 11 December 2002 01:06 PM      Profile for prince     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This what I got out of the Brilliant Compensation video.

Firstly, the presentation gave us some insight into possible choices for future career paths, either as employees or business owners. The first three items were huge and expanding markets, unique and consumable products, timing (specifically future trends). These three, IMHO, cannot be separated all three must be in place in order to choose a viable path forward.

Secondly, it is very difficult to work and not have your efforts leveraged by someone or some corporation or other entity. If my efforts are being leveraged, then it is better that the entity leveraging my effort, has my best interest at heart. I am sure that you all agree that if you have a job you are being leveraged. Corporations do not have their employees best interest at heart, hence the need for unions and other organizations. We live in a capitalist country; some of you want to change that. This presentation is based upon capitalist ideals; I make no apology for that. It is what it is.

Thirdly, the presenters used the analogy of real estate agents and brokers. Without saying it, they have given the agent a qualification. Not every one can do your job and not everyone can be a real estate agent. So they are only talking about people who are qualified to perform the work as an agent. This fact cannot be ignored. Only qualified agents can participate in the business. When you were hired to do your job, someone deemed you qualified.

Fourthly, agents work for brokers. You work for your employer. Does your employer allow you to become a broker? No way! Do they expect you to train new employees? Yes, of course. Do you have the ability to leverage off your trainee's efforts? No, this leverage is only for the employer.

The fifth concept is the ability to have agents become brokers. This is the MLM or network marketing plan. However, the presentation also has some key points that must be in place to make this plan work. Again I will say, that the agent must first be qualified as an agent before entering this plan. In order for brokers to attract agents, the broker must be able to educate and empower the agents; firstly as agents and secondly as brokers.


Does Amway meet the criteria? No way, Amway is a bust on every single point made in the presentation. Is it any wonder that they have such a horrible reputation?

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: prince ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
sheep
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Babbler # 2119

posted 11 December 2002 01:12 PM      Profile for sheep     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not one of those shady pyramid schemes...it's based on the trapezoid!
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 11 December 2002 07:47 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, thank god I can integrate the volume of an irregular trapezoid.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bluto
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Babbler # 1308

posted 12 December 2002 01:19 AM      Profile for Bluto     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tim "Sales"... do you think that's his real name? Who's his partner again? Bill Enterprise? Jim Marketer?? Dick Swindle???
From: Left Coast | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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Babbler # 2832

posted 12 December 2002 01:46 AM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Will Success.
From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged

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