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Islamophobia is not a uniquely British disease: across Europe, liberals openly express prejudice against Muslims. Do new pogroms beckon? Ziauddin Sardar reports from Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and France.

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The hardest part is trying to come up with a viable solution. It can't be merely "voluntarist" anti-racism as in the SOS-racisme campaigns of the 1980s.

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He could have added North Americans to his list of Islamophobics.

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I think North America, and specifically Canada, is the one place it would not happen.

After the September 11 attacks, there was a major opinion poll done internationally about what people thought of various issues such as security, immigration, multiculturalism, coexistence of different religions. I'd have to track it down but I distinctly remember the major results.

In most Western countries (France, Germany, Netherlands etc.), the number of people against any further immigration and expressing hostility to muticulturalism increased dramatically. Canada was the only country in the entire survey where the number of people who favoured maintaining high immigration levels increased and where support for multiculturalim policies increased. The majority of Canadians also expressed support for better safeguards for civil liberties for Muslim citizens as a way of making sure that any necessary anti-terrorism measures did not go overboard and target innocent people.

Breaking Faith

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Breaking faith

By Tom Sandborn-contributing writer

On a mild, damp evening in late October, the Muslim faithful are gathered in Vancouver's Masjid ul-Haqq, an East Side mosque, for prayers celebrating the holy month of Ramadan. Upstairs in the converted Jehovah's Witness church building on Welwyn Street, Muslim men and boys from around the world stand shoulder to shoulder in rows on the broad green and tan stripes of the room's carpet. They face an alcove framed in marble facing, the only rich note in the room's otherwise austere appearance. They kneel, prostrate themselves, touch the floor with their foreheads and stand reverently again as the ancient Koranic suras are chanted.

A young man in a striped, hooded robe leads the prayers tonight. His rich, resonant baritone rises and falls in the ancient liturgical music that has sounded for nearly 14 centuries wherever the faithful gather to pray. Occasionally, his voice falters for a beat, and a deep, quiet voice from among the worshippers takes up the verse and leads the young man through the passage.

The guiding voice comes from an imposing figure in long, flowing African robes. He is Imam Fode Drame, a Senegalese scholar and cleric, the mosque's imam, or prayer leader, since January 2001.

Timeless and moving, even for a visiting journalist with no faith whatsoever, the serene tone of the Ramadan prayer service belies the fact that the worshipers and their imam are key figures in a storm of religious controversy.

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[ 02 December 2005: Message edited by: Peech ]

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
The majority of Canadians also expressed support for better safeguards for civil liberties for Muslim citizens as a way of making sure that any necessary anti-terrorism measures did not go overboard and target innocent people.

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Besides, government and the media are usually pretty skilled at all of the sudden making people think they want something that they never wanted before (ie, "overboard" anti-terrorism measures). I'm not saying there's really a danger of a new holocaust (the article might have done without that title, I agree). But there is a danger of a new Japanese-internment-type situation. In fact, Michelle Malkin wrote a book explicitly defending Roosevelt's internment policies and advocating their use in the "war on terror" today. Admittedly, she was premature: The US has not yet moved beyond the stage in which the government needs to camouflage such measures with fancy-sounding names like "material witness warrants." But who knows how far off that day might or might not be?

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Any tensions in Canada have pitted rigthwing Muslims against liberal and leftwing Muslims and their allies, such as in the sharia tribunal case.

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Originally posted by Carter:
That's a rather reductionist description of the Sharia tribunal issue, don't you think? In fact, wasn't the whole point of the New Statesman article that Islamophobia often tends to be expressed in precisely such "liberal" terms? Such as, "well, I have nothing against Muslims as long as they walk, talk, and dress exactly like us tolerant Europeans... it's the right-wing, religious ones who wear funny headscarves and build those unsightly Mosques that I want to deport."

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I wasn't aware of Religious courts, but once the discussion of them started, I could not believe that in a socalled modern society such a thing would exist. It is bad enough we let religious people run schools, but a court system based on religious beliefs, That is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. None of the religions represented is known for it's pregressive views, and most of their religious views shouldn't have any force in law. Legal matters should be handled by governments. And things like support and child custody should never be decided by a religious court.

[ 03 December 2005: Message edited by: Ichy Smith ]

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"Imam Fode is a man of immense erudition, wisdom and compassion," she said. "He is a remarkable mentor for young Muslims. Many of my students pray at Masjid ul-Haqq and study with the imam, and he steers them toward knowledge and compassion, urging them to embrace their tradition while reaching out to others. Imam Fode is deeply traditional, deeply rooted in classical Islamic jurisprudence, philology and exegesis. At the same time he is very progressive in his courageous interfaith work. I only hope this trouble can be resolved soon without creating polarization," she said.

The Courier asked Drame about his supporters' speculation that his troubles stem from racism within the BCMA leadership or from unease

about his encouragement of Muslim women to study and attend the mosque. Looking weary and sad, sipping mint tea in the modest stucco cottage behind Masjid ul-Haqq last week, Drame spoke carefully.

"I would not rule out racism as a contributing factor in this situation, but other factors, I think, supersede-factors like doctrinal differences," he said. "The leadership of the BCMA is inclined toward Wahhabi teachings, and that is a major factor. The BCMA has received Saudi money in the past, and with that money comes pressure to support Wahhabi teachings." (Wahhabi or Salafist Islam is a "back to basics" fundamentalist current within Islam based on the teachings of Muhammad Ibn Abd al Wahhab, an Arab religious reformer from the 18th century.)

"Racism is not open in this situation, but it is present," he added. "I have had Association leaders say to me that they would prefer that the imam be from Pakistan or India, and at least one leader in the Association, I am told, refuses to refer to me by name. He will only say 'the black imam' when he speaks of me." Drame would not identify the Association leader who made the comment.

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[ 03 December 2005: Message edited by: Peech ]

*Anti-Muslim pogroms in India have claimed thousands of lives -- 3,000 Muslims were murdered in a single incident (in Gujarat, in 1992).

*Thousands of Muslim men and boys were murdered in Bosnia, thousands of women were raped.

*Israel continues to murder civilians, destroy homes, and seize land in a classic ethnic cleansing pattern.

While Muslim extremists have done and are doing many terrible things, and Arab nationalists, who are mostly Muslim, are commiting genocide in Darfur, mass killings of Muslims, mass rapes, and ethnic cleansing of Muslims are not speculative future scernerios; they have occured and are occuring today.

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Originally posted by rsfarrell:
I have always found it interesting that while people tend to identify Islam as "religion most likely to massacre unbelievers" the experience of the last twenty years is sort of the opposite:

*Anti-Muslim pogroms in India have claimed thousands of lives -- 3,000 Muslims were murdered in a single incident (in Gujarat, in 1992).

*Thousands of Muslim men and boys were murdered in Bosnia, thousands of women were raped.

*Israel continues to murder civilians, destroy homes, and seize land in a classic ethnic cleansing pattern.

While Muslim extremists have done and are doing many terrible things, and Arab nationalists, who are mostly Muslim, are commiting genocide in Darfur, mass killings of Muslims, mass rapes, and ethnic cleansing of Muslims are not speculative future scernerios; they have occured and are occuring today.

It's to be hoped that tolerence of these acts elsewhere in the world does not indicate a willingness to carry them out in Europe and America, but it is reasonable to be vigilant. If 6,000 Muslim men and boys can be put to death at the doorstep of Europe, under its soliders' eyes, what might not happen?

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Most people who have been exposed to the faith discover very quickly that the Muslim faith is one of love and charity.

The real message that has to go out at this time, is that any religion is capable of being perverted to someone's desires and greed. We must teaching acceptance, and demand tolerance, otherwise we leave ourselves open to another tragedy like the slaughter at Srebencia.

The christian church, has been as guilty, if not more so of the kinds atrocities being attributed to a handfull of islamic extremists. One only has to look to Ireland for more recent such events.

Perhaps a suggestion. Some here cringe at the very idea of religion. I some times do myself. But it is inescapable that religion plays a huge part in many lives. I noticed recently on Toronto news, members of a mosque there were handing out food to the needy during the celebration of Id-al-Fitr (spelling?).

Muslims immigrating to the Netherlands are among the most socially conservative.

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Ethnic Dutch are among the most socially libeal people in the world.
Muslims immigrating to the Netherlands are among the most socially conservative.

Of course there'd be problems.

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Originally posted by jeff house:

Muslims immigrating to the Netherlands often come from Indonesia, which was a Dutch colony. I wonder
whether anyone cared about the conflict of values when the Dutch imposed their mores on that alien society.

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Why are Babble threads so prone to these whacky red herrings?

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Originally posted by Yst:

Why are Babble threads so prone to these whacky red herrings?

Yes, colonialism was bad. We're pretty clear on that. There's not much debate surrounding the topic at present. So piping in to declare that colonialism was bad in a discussion about present day Dutch domestic politics contributes precisely nothing to the discourse. It's the progressive equivalent of "won't somebody please think of the chilren!" Even if it was open to debate it would contribute absolutely nothing.

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Much as I admire the Simpsons reference, (although to be complete, it should include an illustration:

"Won't somebody please think of the children?")

. . . but it is relevant to point out that a lot of the immigration to Europe is backwash from their former colonies. It puts a slightly different spin on the relentless Muslim horde ravishing the cultural innocence of Europe.

[ 04 December 2005: Message edited by: rsfarrell ]

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Originally posted by lagatta:
I don't like any form of religious fundamentalism. Tolerance of freedom of conscience does not mean an equivalency between progressive and reactionary currents found in all communities and faith groups.

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Well said Lagatta. I'd like to see it on a T shirt but there's too many words.

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Arab nationalists, who are mostly Muslim, are commiting genocide in Darfur,

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Originally posted by Boarsbreath:
A small point, re this from rsfarrell:

You can't tell the difference betwen the "Arabs" and the "black Africans" in Darfur by looking at them; it's misleading (on the part of our media) to talk about the situation as though it were Arabs and Bantu. And everyone there is Muslim, victims too.

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Aye, Sudan is a right bleeding mess now. The AU for some reason thought they could make a go at peacekeeping without armoured support (I mean light armoured support). I do not think there is a single armed entity there that is supporting of the idea of peace (aside from the peacekeepers from the AU).

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Originally posted by Reason:

Numbers of AU peacekeepers in Sudan are going up, and now they have armoured support in the form of old refurbished Canadian Grizzlies (APCs). They will now have the mobility necessary to move about and try to instill some order in chaos (which describes everything outside of Khartum).

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Godspeed. So my guns in this world, so many angry men, but just where you could use them in a good cause, and it's like getting blood from a stone [insert predictable Yeats quote].

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Originally posted by Free Slave:
Islamophobia: unease or fear of Muslims based only on a large number of Islamic people laying waste to a nation with mind-boggling levels of crime, violence, attack on police, theft, burning of cars and homes.

Someone should tell the police in France who are trying to stop widespread Muslim rioting that they are suffering from Islamophobia, that they should put down their riot shields and embrace the clubs and molotov cocktails with open arms, lest France forgets history and a Holocaust of Muslims begins.

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Hmmm, me thinks that your understanding is lacking... Along with your compassion. Comparing the youths, and others in the ghettos of France with Islamic terrorists will not win you much points here.

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Originally posted by Reason:
Hmmm, me thinks that your understanding is lacking... Along with your compassion. Comparing the youths, and others in the ghettos of France with Islamic terrorists will not win you much points here.

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Originally posted by Makwa:
Dag. Soon they're gonna send FBI infiltrators into NDN meetings, like they did at the country wide caravan on Ottawa my Uncle helped to organize in 1974. Dam' terr'rists under every bush. Bush. Get it?

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hehe...

Thanks, needed that chuckle.

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Originally posted by lagatta:
However, you've confused Muslim or Islamic and ISLAMIST - the latter term refers to the political use of Islam, usually in a fundamentalist direction.

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Well, I'm never usually one to haggle over word meanings, but dictionary.com says "Islamist" can describe any one of 1.3 billion believers or followers of Islam.

For example, I think that would necessarily include certain Islamists in Afghanistan who were recipients of CIA military aid in the 1980's and who eventually brought down the Soviet-backed PDPA government about two years after the Soviets packed up and left. Did the CIA and US Dept. of Agriculture exploit and create a monstor of this most violent branch of Islamic fundamentalism, militant-Islam ?.

Maps have long depicted an expansionary faith, with successive dynasties threatening to overwhelm the frontiers of Europe from the battle of Tours to Vienna. Similarly, Indian textbooks are being rewritten to emphasize the enormous vandalism and depredations that ostensibly Islamic invaders wrought over Northern India over the same period.

Now, the fear of poltical Islam organizing all the non-white oppressed masses in the long-expected North-South showdown is being stoked to propel Europe's rightward shift (in both new and old Europe -- this I feel is the subtext to their willing participation in Bush's Wars).

For all its faults, the film Kingdom of Heaven actually on the balance helped in correcting the views on the Crusades, where Christian crusaders actually committed a hell of a lot more atrocities (like eating people, murdering Jews, and causing general mayhem) than their Muslim counterparts. That the conquistadors of the Americas were veterans of the Christian reconquest of Spain by Isabel and Ferdinand in the late 1400s, also should point to how colonialism intersects with this old story.

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I put to you that the United States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most saleable commodity is self love. It's a winner. Listen to all American presidents on television say the words, 'the American people', as in the sentence, 'I say to the American people it is time to pray and to defend the rights of the American people and I ask the American people to trust their president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American people.'

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[ 08 December 2005: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]

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Originally posted by ceti:
Thus our task must be to overcome both the economic determinism of capitalism and the civilizational wars brought about by dueling fundamentalisms and nationalisms.

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Yes. And I after reading some comments near the top about North America being immune to this sort of thing, we should remember that occasionally it was western-based nationals who have profited from war in Asia and Europe. It's easy to cast apersions at billions of people who live on top of one another while our own country, rich in natural wealth and living space, is set aside and held back for the benefit of foreign-based corporate marauders. I lived through the ice storm of 1998 in Ottawa. I saw how Canadian's can turn ugly when faced with the teensiest bit of inconvenience. People had their home power generators stolen, and the newspapers were filled with misdirected animosity. And to make matters worse, the city had contracted-out highway maintenance and the highway outta town sometimes got sanded on time for rush hour. On my drive to Arnprior every a.m., a minimum of 13 cars slid off the road and into the ditch. Foreigners would have thought we were kidding with all the bitching and carry on at the time.

And look at what successive autocratic Liberal governments have gotten away with in this country for 75 of the last 100 years. Canadian's wouldn't say "shit" if they had a mouthful. Imagine if we were faced with a Hitler or an out of control shadow government like our southern neighbors have had to endure. Canadian's wouldn't know whether to shit or get drunk and watch the fuckin hockey game.

[ 08 December 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]