Author
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Topic: How would you live if you had only a year to live?
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3912
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posted 19 May 2003 09:07 PM
How would you live if you had absolutely nothing to lose? If you knew for a fact that you would die in a year? Healthy till then and then it is over? What would be important during that year and what would become irrelevant? One of my own fantasies is the following: While we have a time-span of an unspecified length ahead of us, we play-act a lot, try to hide our deepest feelings from most of the world. We try to belong, to be accepted, not to stand out too much. We are resigned to the belief that the obvious solutions are all impractical and all we can ever hope for is tiny incremental improvements that never challenge the basic assumptions. And since most of us live like that, most of the time, nothing really ever changes. In detail – yes, in essence – no. If I had only a year to live, I would throw caution to the wind and live without worry and fear. I would speak my mind all the time, I would let everyone know exactly how I feel, what I think makes sense, what I think is stupid and cowardly, hypocritical and self-defeating, I would not be intimidated into silence. Not because I would change anything or anyone, I am a lot more realistic than believing in miracles. But because it is such a pleasure to stand up for what I believe in, to call things by their proper names, to indulge in maximum sanity. I was born in an age that may prove to be the twilight of humanity. Even if there is a new dawn somewhere ahead of us, and somehow mankind overcomes its self-destructive obsessions, I will be long gone before that happens. So, if I had only one year, I would want to live it as if I lived in that far-away, hypothetical utopia that I will never see. Not being religious, I have to believe in the ‘here and now’, and I won’t be denied a taste of real freedom and real sanity. And, since I made this decision many years ago, ever since then I have been living as if I had only one year left. It works for me and this make-belief freedom is the most glorious experience I have ever had. So, lets entertain each other with our fantasies of how we would live if we had only one year left. [ 20 May 2003: Message edited by: Francis Mont ]
From: "The right crowd" | Registered: Mar 2003
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3912
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posted 20 May 2003 06:33 PM
If I had only a year to live, I would want to make the most of it. Not more, even much more, of the same, but something quite different. I would spend it on something money can not buy. This would be the last chance for me, of this unique and wondrous opportunity we call life, so I would be very careful to spend it on doing what I always longed to do and never could: love my fellow human beings.And, since the world would not change to indulge my last wish, it would have to be a fantasy – not on “Fantasy Island”, but inside my own head. And what can beat the ultimate fantasy of living in a world where you can look up, not down; imagine the best possible and not the possible best; admire instead of pity; love instead of fear and hate? So, I would imagine me a human world, which is just and compassionate; free and loving; tolerant and beautiful. Then I would go out of my way to tell everyone about this world, how it is only up to us, how it is here for the taking and how much happier we all could be. Of course no one would take it seriously and some would think I was a fool and some would call me a dreamer. But I would go around, with stars in my eyes, telling of this world and, who knows, maybe some would call it a beautiful dream. Then I would die, knowing that I have done everything I could to live up to my potential. And this is the most I could have hoped for to do with the opportunity I was given. [ 20 May 2003: Message edited by: Francis Mont ]
From: "The right crowd" | Registered: Mar 2003
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 24 May 2003 09:55 PM
I think that lagatta and Trisha are being the realists here.Most people who learn that they have a more or less precise time left to live are not feeling all that well for the rest of it. That's the hard truth. And most people are still too entangled in the lives they used to lead simply to drop everything, climb on a plane, and escape to a romantic fade-out on a Greek island. Most of us, when we learn that we are dying, learn also to cut the crap and turn to those next to us. When you are dying, there is nothing left to do but love the ones you're with. And most of the dying get to that understanding much faster than any of the people who fuss over them.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 24 May 2003 10:43 PM
But that doesn't happen to anyone, and I think it is important that young persons, especially, grasp that it does not happen to anyone.The lucky ones walk into a laundry truck one day, right after they've had lunch with the guy who tells them they're getting the Nobel Prize. Or they have that unusual kind of stroke or heart attack that puts them in a coma at once, three days max, they never know, lucky lucky. Or maybe somebody shoots you. Well, unlikely, but not out of the question. But if you're like most of us, you will be sick when you die, as Woody Allen said. And the sickness itself is instructive. Wisdom comes from facing that, I feel. I seriously doubt that Francis wanted fantasies of the pure-escape kind that I, eg, often have. Francis, I suspect, wanted what Francis always wants. But for you, clersal, I will do a fantasy. But let me think first. I have a few different scenarios to sort through.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3912
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posted 25 May 2003 09:59 PM
My hope for the thread was a discussion on what is really, really important in life for different people. The fantasy of having only one (healthy) year left was a device to help us focus on this question. To illustrate this, I will copy in part of a letter I recently wrote to a much younger friend of mine. Here it is: “I was thinking about our discussion regarding choices and prices and what a bitch it is that we can’t have everything we want. A few lucky devils in the world have it their own way, all the time (and I suspect they still pay some price for it), most of us have to pick and choose, and when we pick something, we have to give up something else for it. I hesitated a lot before venturing a comment on this issue, because we all have to find our own way and our own trade-offs. However, for what it’s worth, I would like to mention the greatest mistake and regret I have identified in my own life. Whether knowing this means anything to you, beyond a curiosity about me, is highly suspect, but here it is anyway. My greatest regret in life is the mistake of buying into the “American Dream”. What I didn’t know, until my middle forties, was how little possessions mean for happiness. It is nice to have a nice house and nice things to go with it, but the price one has to pay for these things, in sacrificed dreams, is exorbitant. The jobs we hate, the travel and the worries that go with it, the lack of time we would need to pursue our interests, the people we have to put up with, the house in the crowded city we need, to be able to commute to the job we hate, the pretence of not despising some of our fellow workers and managers, these all take their toll and very little of our life energies is left over for what we really want. By the time I figured this out for myself, I had wasted so much time and so much energy, that it was actually too late for many of the dreams I used to have and could have reached, had I been smart enough to know what all my true options were and brave enough to be unconventional. I don’t mean to say I regret the time and energy I spent living up to my responsibilities toward my partner and our family – those had priority over everything else. But, even with this constraint, I could have lived a lot smarter and a lot happier than I did. Now I am trying to make up for lost time, with a vengeance. Please don’t be offended about this letter, the last thing in my mind is trying to give you advice on how to live your life. I only wanted to tell you one particular perspective, without the slightest hint that it might apply to you in any way. If nothing else, accept it as the musings of an aging ‘hippy’ whose greatest regret in life is not becoming one decades before he aged.”
From: "The right crowd" | Registered: Mar 2003
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 25 May 2003 11:52 PM
Agree about material possessions, houses and above all cars (hate cars) but someone focused only on his or her spouse and children (if any) could soon become very dull for that spouse. That was what happened to a lot of women in the postwar generation before the new wave of women's liberation. The male opposite number was the Man in the Grey Flannel Suit, though in many more cases it would have been the Man with a relatively well paying assembly-line job - though don't dare question what they are assembling. Another question - what is this thing against "crowded" cities? Hell, we don't live in Hong Kong or Calcutta. There aren't any really crowded cities in Canada or Québec, our main problem is sprawl and a lack of sufficient density for folks to live carfree. Certainly agree with you about human values being the essential, but the above are just a few examples of the ideological filter through which you seem to be viewing same (based not on your life but only on your last post).
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3912
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posted 27 May 2003 11:56 AM
Actually, I advocate self-sufficient local economies all over the country, centered around villages. In my utopia you don’t have cars at all. You walk or use your horse and buggy. Very low tech. People know and respect each other in their communities and the communities know, respect and trade with each other. There is no TV or computer games either. People learn skills in arts and entertain each other. They tell stories, play music, do crafts, put on charades and perform at the local barn-theatre. They read a lot, learn a lot of science and are very inventive coming up with ecological and non-destructive ways to provide for their basic needs. Their basic needs do not include ATV-s and jet-boats but they do include clean air, water, food, warm and comfortable houses and clothes. They have a good local health clinic where they concentrate on prevention by advocating healthy diet and lifestyle. If they get sick, they get the best medical care love and experience can provide. No miracle cures and heroic operations, but generally a lot higher level of health, due to the healthy, stress-free life style. There are no schools either, in the sense we understand. Children are not shut away into institutions, but are taught useful skills, right alongside the adults, who will take the trouble to educate them both by instruction and good example. There are no jails either, antisocial members of the community have repeated warnings, leading to expulsion for the incorrigibles. Life is so incredibly simple -- for health and happiness we need only one percent of the resources we are using. The other 99% is used to make us miserable. I wanted this on record, just in case anyone else jumps to conclusions about what I advocate. [ 27 May 2003: Message edited by: Francis Mont ]
From: "The right crowd" | Registered: Mar 2003
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 27 May 2003 12:43 PM
quote: There are no jails either, antisocial members of the community have repeated warnings, leading to expulsion for the incorrigibles.
Wherupon they gather together outside your community, then come back and rape and kill you in your sleep. (Why wouldn't they? You kicked them out.)
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 27 May 2003 01:40 PM
No offense meant, Francis. Your utopia sounds interesting, but without some real way of dealing with rapists, murderers, etc., it will soon become theirs.I find that most utopias (including "Anarchy") seem to believe that once there's no Capitalism/Ernie Eves/"The Man" that somehow criminals will be so touched that they'll turn their swords into plowshares. I really doubt this, is all.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402
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posted 27 May 2003 06:52 PM
quote: Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:Wherupon they gather together outside your community, then come back and rape and kill you in your sleep. (Why wouldn't they? You kicked them out.)
You speak of criminals as if they were a seperate species, inevitable and numerous. Well see, in a sane and decent society - it doesn't even need to be utopian; just a functional democracy - you don't have a lot of disaffected, angry, violent people. You don't mistreat and twist people in the first place. You catch behavioral problems early and correct them before someone becomes a rapist or killer. Is it time to start another thread on various utopian visions? I'll bet a week's wages that none of them is impossible to achieve, if we wanted to.
From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3912
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posted 27 May 2003 07:09 PM
quote: Originally posted by nonesuch: I'll bet a week's wages that none of them is impossible to achieve, if we wanted to.
A very big 'if'. Who is 'we'? How do we start 'wanting'? How much is a week's wages? Apart from these quibbles, I agree with you, nonesuch. Criminals are made, not born. If the 'misbehaver' is taken behind the barn early enough, by a few of his peers, and explained in a no-nonsense-way what is and what isn't acceptable, and then let go home where he is treated with love and respect by his family and community, very few would persist. And I still don't see a roadmap from here to there - and there may not be one due to a possibly irreparable damage we have done to our world. The self-destructive elements in our species may have reached critical mass -- the 'human-condition-disease' may have become terminal. [ 27 May 2003: Message edited by: Francis Mont ]
From: "The right crowd" | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076
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posted 28 May 2003 09:57 AM
I'd take that bet nonesuch. In light of all-to-human attributes like envy, greed, ambition and the lust for power, I would expect that any utopian situation would soon devolve into a power struggle between a few alpha types with the bulk of the citizenry at their mercy. Unless the utopia was founded by a group of such like- thinking people that dissension would be impossible? Probably be a pretty small utopia.Concerning the criminal question, while I appreciate the concept of woodshedding a few youthful miscreants, I also would think that there are enough, due in part to the attributes above, more then enough husbands who would beat their wives (and vice-versa Magoo!!!), light-fingered types who just love to steal, and general trouble-makers, kids who like to break windows, joy-ride, and tip cows. Not to mention the sadists and others who just, for whatever reason love to harm. [ 28 May 2003: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 May 2003 10:42 AM
quote: You speak of criminals as if they were a seperate species, inevitable and numerous.
Well they certainly aren't a separate species, but they are unlike us in that they don't necessarily want what everyone else does. Certainly I can't count on the fact that my utopia will also be theirs, and therefore we'll all be happy as clams together. I do, however, think that they are inevitable. As humans we've tried pretty much every available way of governing ourselves; has crime ever disappeared? Do you really want to get rid of police and prisons to find out that they haven't? That a pedophile or sadist is born?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 May 2003 11:16 AM
Why would I assume that pedophilia (as an example) is "learned"? From whom? Why don't we all learn it then?Nope, I'm going on the assumption that pedophilia, sadism, etc., are something one is born with, like schizophrenia is, or bipolar disorder is. And at any rate, I'm certainly not willing to gamble my life that it's NOT.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076
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posted 28 May 2003 11:46 AM
quote: Boys who are highly aggressive have significantly lower levels of a stress hormone in their saliva, which might indicate a possible biological basis of antisocial behaviour.“Keith McBurnett, of the University of Chicago, and colleagues studied 38 boys aged 7 to 12 who had a history of behaviour problems. The researchers took saliva samples twice over a four year period to measure the amount of the stress hormone cortisol. “Boys with a proclivity towards violence had significantly lower levels of cortisol, the researchers say in the January issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry. “Cortisol is normally released in response to fear, such as fear of punishment for misbehaviour. Low levels, the researchers say, may indicate the boys do not fear the possible consequences of their actions.” There would appear to be a possibility of a significant link between the observations of this University of Chicago research team and Hafer's observations. The findings in both cases concern anomalies in the saliva of groups of children. It is a well-recognized feature of ADD behaviour that children do not appear to fear the consequences of their actions and do not exercise the usual degree of self-restraint. Hafer claimed many years ago that people affected by phosphate would be at significantly greater risk of delinquent, violent and criminal behaviour.
Now I'll be the first to admit that learned and environmental issues play a huge role in the development of criminals. I just can't imagine that everycriminal that has ever existed is simply the result of this. Its imposssible considering the range of behavious common to the human race. And considering what we don't know about biology and genetics is it possible that perhaps the occasional b&e artist is just someone with that compulsion? Is it somewhat likely? Are all of you that convinced that every criminal act ever perpetuated has been the result of learned bahaviour? Now, to paraphrase Francis in his inimitable style, would others at least consider this with an open mind that it may, in fact, be possible in rare instances?
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 May 2003 12:19 PM
quote: but sure as hell tells you that the people were not born evil or deviant.
Strictly speaking a pedophile is probably just born with the potential to prefer children as sexual objects. It's us, as a society, that decided this was "evil". Likewise, a sadist or sociopath is simply born to torture, or derive joy from seeing pain, or to not care about the effects of one's actions on others. Again, this isn't "evil", any more than a cat mauling a mouse is, until we label it so. For what it's worth, I do believe a utopia, however defined, would probably change the crime rate by an order of magnitude or more, but that there's no particular arrangement of society that would a) make the crime rate 0%, and therefore b) make prisons and police obsolete. Sorry anarchists: we'll always need cops. Fewer ones? Better ones? Maybe. But none would be a recipe for disaster.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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