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Author Topic: Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin
Snuckles
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posted 16 December 2005 11:21 AM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 16, 2005; Page A01

Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's greatest sources of strife.

The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races.

Leaders of the study, at Penn State University, warned against interpreting the finding as a discovery of "the race gene." Race is a vaguely defined biological, social and political concept, they noted, and skin color is only part of what race is -- and is not.

In fact, several scientists said, the new work shows just how small a biological difference is reflected by skin color. The newly found mutation involves a change of just one letter of DNA code out of the 3.1 billion letters in the human genome -- the complete instructions for making a human being.


Read it here.

Also see Zebrafish Researchers Hook Gene for Human Skin Color


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 December 2005 04:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I always wondered how this happened. It was my notion that somewhere along the line, the people who moved up north probably found their chances of success being like that of the polar bear's - that whiter skin tended to blend in better with snow and so the lighter extremes of the skin color spectrum tended to be reproductively favored.

A chance mutation probably accelerated this process though.


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solarpower
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posted 16 December 2005 04:16 PM      Profile for solarpower   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fascinating.
It's got me thinking though about which came first.
Cows don't have to worry about being brown or having black and white patches, etc.
But people have this weird 'you're different, get away from me' attitude.
So in musing, what if...the mutation started to take place first and that led to people migrating because of persecution. Wouldn't be the first time of a mass exodus for that reason.

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DrConway
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posted 16 December 2005 05:05 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It has been my speculation that the visual recognition "system" in the brain that filters responses to other objects or beings works on a "how close to self is it" basis.

The problem is that this "like self" filter is probably not sufficiently generous enough to accommodate skin color very well. So family is obviously "like self", your immediate community is "like self", but less so, and so on. Then people of different color appear to be "not like self", and this was probably the first primitive basis for racism. The modern advancements on the subject simply attempt to put an intellectual veneer over what is fundamentally an instinct that should have been bred out of humanity tens of thousands of years ago.

I said it better over here, I think.

[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: DrConway ]


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F.
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posted 16 December 2005 05:13 PM      Profile for F.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe next they will discover the tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of helmet hair.
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arborman
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posted 16 December 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My understanding is that it has been pretty straightforward in evolutionary terms for a long time.

White skin was more likely to survive to reproduction, in Eurasia, at some point in history. Whether that happened in Europe or further east is not clear. I know my ancestors (Hungarians) - nominally 'white' - migrated west from Asia about 1500 years ago). They weren't the first or the last wave of migrants from the East - who knows what they looked like when they came?

All this is somewhat beside the point, where racism is concerned. Racists have never depended on rationality or scientific evidence to support their views (though they have twisted both in the past). No doubt this time will be no different.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 16 December 2005 06:45 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So if I understand this correctly, Stephen Harper is some kind of disease or mutation that might be eventually cured through stem cell research?
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Boarsbreath
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posted 16 December 2005 07:16 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, light skin for the vitamin D from sunlight, dark skin to keep out the extra UV...only, and I know how slight a difference can be and still matter over the generations, but honestly, having a light skin in the tropics really doesn't seem to hurt much. And after all the SE Asians (incl descendants in Madagascar) seem to cope just fine.

My theory, which is mine *ahem*, is that it's easier to locate skin parasites on light skin. The colder your environment is, the more this matters -- you live in dank furs and huddled in small spaces. That might give a slight physical edge.

But the main thing, as suggested above, is sexual selection. Light skin is a peacock tail.

(And Stephen Harper is just a hopeful monster.)


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jeff house
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posted 16 December 2005 07:39 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Light skin is a peacock tail.

How do you figure that? I thought dark skin was the peacock tail.

Actually, I do think darker skin helps in the tropics. I spent time in Nicaragua and Colombia, and those with lighter skins appear to age more quickly.

I wonder about melanomas, too. My sense, based upon a few cases only, is that light-skinned people get them more easily in the tropics.


It might not be such a huge big deal now, but maybe it was before treatment was possible.


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Fidel
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posted 16 December 2005 09:41 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that's true about light skinned people being at highest risk for non-melanoma skin cancer(melanoma is the most serious skin cancer) Melanomas can be the result of certain kinds of skin blemishes present at birth/congenital.

What is not dependent on skin colour, apparently, is damage or suppression of human immune system due to a component of sunlight spectrum - ultra-violet B wavelengths and are also thought to be responsible for increased incidence of blindness among cattle and sheep in Argentina over the past 20 years. High altititude ozone protects living things from harmful UV radiation. Keep that in mind as commercialism puts large holes in and weakens the effect of our natural shield. (And no, tinfoil hats will not protect right-wingers from imaginary Martian laser beams)


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
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posted 16 December 2005 10:24 PM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is helmet hair?
Why selection for white skin?
It COULD be some daft cultural thing that they had going on as they emigrated north. About 15 years ago, there was a bit of an outcry because a factory was making mercury soap. (Quite a big outcry actually).
Mercury soap is terribly unhealthy but one thing it does is bleach the skin. It got exported to the ivory coast or ghana where the very beautiful black girls aparently think they are too black.
So, perhaps just to be different and to stand out from the crowd, they apply bleaching soap to their skin.
Perhaps it was something like that started the whole white thing. The glorification of defective genes!

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Fidel
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posted 16 December 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the whole light versus dark thing was made evident when someone harnessed the flame of fire. We suddenly realized that it was sabre-toothed cats the size of cows that were carrying our people off and stashing them in the crooks of trees. Therefore:

Light and warmth = good
Dark and cold = bad


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Boarsbreath
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posted 17 December 2005 09:34 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Light skin as the peacock tail because the original was surely black, we then being in or near the tropics and black being so common in Africa. Sexual selection for it for no particular reason, just that it's different. *eye-popping smiley * Maybe it happened in Europe especially because of the presence for so long of Neanderthals -- we liked our mates to be as un-Neanderthal as possible!

(That paler = better almost everywhere would be interesting, but it's too hard to filter out the unrelated status of Europeans after the Age of Discovery, since it's only from then we can have any real idea what was favoured in Africa or Americas. Asia, yes, but that's just 2 large samples.)

And you bet, the association of black with bad is just black with dark, which of course represents bad. No reason ever to say "black" with such a meaning; just substitute dark.

Except...Black Irish. That's too precious.


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 December 2005 03:15 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
I always wondered how this happened. It was my notion that somewhere along the line, the people who moved up north probably found their chances of success being like that of the polar bear's - that whiter skin tended to blend in better with snow and so the lighter extremes of the skin color spectrum tended to be reproductively favored.

A chance mutation probably accelerated this process though.


I believe the selection pressure mostly had to do with rickets. Skin with less melanin blocks less sun from lower layers of skin making with the vitamin D, or something. If you're in latitudes where the sun's wimpy enough that light skin doesn't cause mucho sunburn problems etc., then it's a net benefit.
I suspect that in Northern Europe, even stone age folks wore clothes of some sort, so camouflage wouldn't be all that big an issue.

I don't buy the peacock tail thing. Selection pressures don't need to be that big to have a major cumulative effect, and at the same time it seems pretty clear that as soon as differing populations start to mix, they get together and have kids, so I don't see how sexual selection is supposed to work.
I think people are underestimating the difficulties of life back when. Somewhat less vitamin deficiency could certainly make the difference between surviving the winter and not surviving the winter.
On the other end, you don't even need skin cancer to explain selection pressures. Just at the simple level of vulnerability to bad sunburn and heatstroke, if you have no choice but to keep on gathering or hunting until you're ready to drop, then the light skinned person is either ready to drop quicker (and hence gets less food) or, if they insist on being stubborn about it because starvation's staring them in the face, may simply drop dead. My wife nearly died of sunburn and heat stroke one time in *Vancouver* when she was a teenager. I'm sure it can't be that tough to do so in many parts of Africa.

[ 18 December 2005: Message edited by: Rufus Polson ]


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Serendipity
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posted 18 December 2005 03:33 AM      Profile for Serendipity     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's right, it wasn't the snow that did it. Melanin reduces Vitamin D synthesis, which is fine if you live in a sunny area, but when people entered Europe it would have been a serious disadvantage.


Edited: (RP beat me to it)

[ 18 December 2005: Message edited by: Serendipity ]


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DrConway
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posted 18 December 2005 01:45 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah-HA. Where's an "enlightenment" smilie when you need one?
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fern hill
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posted 18 December 2005 02:03 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's a class element in light vs dark skin that probably would cross cultures. Darker skin would mean you're outside labouring. Lighter skin not. Women in Egyptian art are usally lighter-skinned, presumably because the menfolk were outside hunting and warring, while the women stayed inside.

Someone will no doubt supply the name that escapes me here. During the First World War, a British general (?) was driving by a pond of some sort that the enlisted men were bathing in. He said, apparently sincerely, 'Who knew the lower classes had such white skin?'


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Boarsbreath
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posted 18 December 2005 11:07 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes! Marking the reversal in class polarity of light skin in Europe -- with industrialisation, work meant white, not dark. So suntanning arose among the leisured classes.

Nowadays, it seems to me it's reversing again, as upper-class types worried about melanomas avoid the tan. (Cf smoking.)


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
ex-hippy
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posted 19 December 2005 02:42 PM      Profile for ex-hippy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
These are very interesting speculations but they do not answer the more profound question of why men have nipples. I think it is for piercing so we can hang things from them.
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CHCMD
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posted 19 December 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for CHCMD   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, man-nipples, what's that about? Is it just human males that have nipples? I was wondering about that 'cause my male Beagle doesn't have any nipples . . . type nipples too many times and it starts to look really weird - and I haven't smoked any dope yet today . . .
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Reality. Bites.
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posted 19 December 2005 03:14 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CHCMD:
Is it just human males that have nipples? I was wondering about that 'cause my male Beagle doesn't have any nipples

Unless he's some kind of mutant freak he does. Male dog nipples aren't very prominent though, and you might not be able to find them except on quite a short-haired dog, but he's got the same six you and I do.


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'topherscompy
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posted 19 December 2005 06:23 PM      Profile for 'topherscompy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
nipples were quite obviously placed on men, by god, to inspire the creation of that most delicious candy - milk duds.
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Timetrvlr
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posted 19 December 2005 07:47 PM      Profile for Timetrvlr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dunno, I assumed that my ancestors that left Africa 85,000 years ago were very black. I'm pretty sure that my ancestors that went north up the fertile crescent 56.000 years ago were at least fairly dark. I'm pretty sure that my ancestors that lived in Europe 45,000 years ago were pretty light, they had to be to survive. It was cold as hell, there wasn't much sunlight so we had to soak up all we could to produce vitamin D as efficiently as possible. If we had access to seal and whale as the Inuit do, we might have got enough vitamin D from our diet, but we didn't. I think I'm white because of natural selection. Does that sound reasonable?


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Fidel
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posted 19 December 2005 09:24 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I watched a documentary on Leakey Junior, so I'm an expert on everything now.

I remember R.L. Jr suggesting that at one time, Northern Europe and Scandinavia were likely much warmer and sunnier than now. Our black ancestors likely figured out big game migratory patterns and followed herds northward. And small groups settled north for the longrun as lost ties with the south in favour of an abundance of meat. There would have been feasts and famines, malnutrition etc with some hair colours turning red. African children's hair will often turn red when suffering from qwashiorker stage of malnutrition. It produced a more robust group of Nordics who are thought to have mixed with earlier Innuits and relatively recently?, Swedish wikings mixing with Mongols and Steppe people with the result - Russians.

Scientists have discovered that minute changes in rat/hamster nostril openings occur as a response to cold air. They've speculated that the skin colour and certain nordic physical features could have occurred over the course of a couple of hundred thousand years easily.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 20 December 2005 06:11 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sure. Only, not the hair: that's getting it backward (Lamarckian, I think they say). Changes to the body due to environment do not normally (ie unless they extend to the germ cells) affect what that body passes on in DNA. You can't acquire red hair from your ancestors' poor protein intake.

Which does bring up the problem of European hair: in all the world, Europeans are the only types with a variety of hair colour. (Not counting albinism, but noting the occasional blond Melanesian.) Why on earth is that?

It seems we're slowly moving into an age where questions that look like racial questions, but really are just genetic ones, like that, can be investigated. I hope some answers come up in the next 20 or 30 years, because I'm sure looking forward to them.


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Southlander
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posted 21 December 2005 06:40 PM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Hair colour.
When people migrated North and the skin faded to allow more vitamen D to be absorbed, then the colour in their hair and eyes would also fade. Just like the skin on their bellies and butts faded, even though it probably wasn't exposed to as much sun.
Very pale people have fair hair and blue eyes. (Blue eyes also let more light in, and are more prone to sun damage and cateracts).
Olive skin people have darker skin, eyes and hair.
Red hair is another thing again. I think it may have been around for a very long time, adding desirable hints of colour and healthy shine to black hair. When you fade the black, you can see the red, that was there all along.
Red hair could equate to the peacock tail?

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Southlander
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posted 21 December 2005 06:43 PM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Skin colour can't now be under single gene control, cos if so there would be only at most three shades of colour, assuming incomplete dominance. (vis the red, pink and white roses of fifth form biology)

Spelling!

[ 21 December 2005: Message edited by: Southlander ]


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Fidel
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posted 21 December 2005 10:18 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boarsbreath:

Which does bring up the problem of European hair: in all the world, Europeans are the only types with a variety of hair colour. (Not counting albinism, but noting the occasional blond Melanesian.) Why on earth is that?

There are polygenic models for blonde hair, apparently, but no one has actually been able to gene type the encoding for blonde hair - typing exists for red and brown, according to something I read. (Don't call me on it bc I enjoy a superficial understanding of this subject in vague generalities)

This person discusses a possible explanation for red hair. Is it because there was no selection against gene mutations for red hair among northern Celtic tribes ?. (But I thought Celts extended from India to Mediterannean(including Italy and Spain) N Africa and British Isles?)

[ 22 December 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]


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