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Author Topic: Global Government
Lima Bean
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posted 11 October 2002 03:38 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, the UN is sort of a start, the international court for war crimes is sort of a start, even globalized economy is sort of a start...

What would global government look like? How would it work? What would its responsibilities and powers be?

I think it's already something we need. This world is as much a unit as any one country is, isn't it?

brainstorm, anyone?


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Terry Johnson
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posted 11 October 2002 04:44 PM      Profile for Terry Johnson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We won't have global government until Europeans and North Americans are ready to accept that whatever political party is favoured by a majority in China and India will most likely command a majority in any world parliament.
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Lima Bean
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posted 11 October 2002 04:45 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're assuming some structure for the government--what is it? Are you confident it would be a party democracy similar to ours?
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satana
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posted 11 October 2002 05:40 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How about the USA?
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Lima Bean
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posted 11 October 2002 06:41 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
uh??

What about it? Obviously, (to me, anyway) a global government would necessarily involve every nation on the globe. Even the USA.

Otherwise what's the point?


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Heather
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posted 11 October 2002 08:28 PM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Global government today includes: The IMF (International Monetary Fund) & WB (World Bank)who unfortunately represent the richest (nevermind countries) corporations.

Since Big Corporations were not able to reduce labour costs in the industrialized countries, they moved their companies to the third world for cheap labour. Yep, our jobs were taken from us so the products could be made in these countries where people are oppressed and if they dare complain, be beaten, fired, or killed. If a whole group starts to complain, the company would move to a more "friendly" country like Mexico.

What happens to these products after they are made? Well, we foolishly buy them at an unbelievably marked up price!

The IMF & WB determine whether developing countries get access to aid money- As part of the loan agreements, the countries are subjected to structural adjustmen programs where countries have to open their trade barriers so foreign corporations could come in, wipe out the existing ones, set up massive sweat shops (in Jamaica: among others, Hanes & Tommy Hilfiger) and literally take over the country.

WB helps by giving loans to build roads, dams, etc. for these constructions. It's really quite sickening.

Edited to add Corporate Watch and say that I've seen IMF's videos & sites as well as opposing views (video: Life and Debt) so I could compare and contrast. The IMF and WB haven't been able to convince me that their world economic strategy is working.

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Anuri ]


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DrConway
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posted 11 October 2002 09:21 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A global government, if set up today, would be hopelessly slanted in favor of big corporations since the existing infrastructure which would be cobbled together to make one arises out of the IMF, World Bank, and likely a government set up on the first-past-the-post system, which would ensure that getting a candidate elected would only require polarizing about half to a quarter of the electorate in any district.

Then after that it would be a simple matter to bribe - I mean, give contributions - these people to keep them voting for a wrong-assed worldwide tax system that penalizes labor and befriends capital.

If I sound unduly pessimistic, sorry. I just cannot realistically believe in a global government that would do any good unless and until momentum builds for a global government with these features:

  • A proportional-representation electoral structure
  • A central bank which is committed to not manipulating interest rates to increase unemployment in favor of inflation control at all costs
  • A worldwide currency or a return to fixed exchange rates, either of which is compatible with controls over capital flows between regions of the world
  • A tax system that heavily taxes wealth and lightly taxes labor
  • Consistent regulation of corporations, big and small, and
  • Sole control over the nuclear weapons stockpiles of the world.

Of course, this laundry list would give somebody like Dick Cheney a lot of hives.


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satana
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posted 12 October 2002 09:35 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Global government could look a lot like the USA. It would work the way it works in Washington. Its responsibilities will be to its own. Its powers overwhelming.
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Heather
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posted 12 October 2002 09:40 AM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
check this out UN Pushes Global Tax Schemes - a challenge to US hegemony.

Would love to hear some opinions.


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Lima Bean
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posted 14 October 2002 11:48 AM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I suppose I have to agree with the points made by the pessimists out there. It is very unlikely that a global government could come out of the political and economic climate of the day, and that if it did it would be horribly corrupt....that may well be true.

I like DrConway's list, though, and that's the sort of thing I was hoping for when I put up the first post. I figure if we can't even imagine how a GOOD, useful global gov't would work and what it would do, then we'll really never get one.

So thanks for the list, DrConway.

In my imagination, the new gov't would take the place of the IMF and the WB and the two, as we know them, would disappear to be replaced by something more fair and more beneficial to more people.

In my imagination, the global government's primary role and purpose would be to minimize disparity and work towards security and self-sufficiency where possible, perhaps symbiosis where necessary...

I've no mind for the technicalities or details of politics, though, just idealism and hope...

(That's why I asked for a brainstorm of ideas!)


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nonsuch
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posted 14 October 2002 01:17 PM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In my imagination, the global government's primary role and purpose would be to minimize disparity and work towards security and self-sufficiency where possible, perhaps symbiosis where necessary...

Imagination is a necessary starting point. Unfortunately, there isn't much of it in the higher circles of power.

Like, where would you find people who a) want to minimize disparity and also b) have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the political and economic clout to do it? Then, c) What army is available to enforce any rule they made?
Same problem as with the UN: those that have the most could make global government work - but they'd rather prevent it from working.

So, the thing can't possibly happen until there is something like parity among the participating nations. Chicken/egg situation.

What i can imagine - just barely - is economic globalization (which is going on already) slowly destroying the various political structures and frontiers that exist now, (which they are doing) and then itself breaking down (which it must, sooner or later), and leaving the field open for new political structures.
This will be a very difficult, messy, and painful process. Messily and painfully is the only way humans seem to make major changes.

Afterward, i can imagine regions - rather than nation-states - building new economies and political systems. These, in turn, will form alliances and trade-agreement - both rather more fluid, casual and flexible than they are now. Eventually, the smartest leaders will see the advantage of a world-wide regulating body. They'll make up the rules as circumstances demand. It won't be like any models we can set up now: their requirements and perspective will be different in a hundred years' time.


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Wide Eyes
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posted 14 October 2002 01:54 PM      Profile for Wide Eyes        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When thinking about what a global government would look like, we need to figure out what a global nation would be. The way Globalization is going (from my limited POV) is that corporations will replace nations. It's already happening. Laws are enacted to protect the interests of corporations over that of the citizens and the environment. Take Kyoto agreement and Alberta's oil and gas industry for example.

But perhaps with all the scandals and corruption coming out from the heads of huge multi-nationals maybe globalization is not as certain as it once was...perhaps I'm being too opimistic.


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satana
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posted 14 October 2002 07:55 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess the difficulty in imagining a "good" global government is because I've never seen any real examples of "good" governemnet of any form.

A government's primary role would naturally be its own security and self-sufficiancy. It would work towards minimizing disparity only if necessary.

One major problem I have with DrC's list is "representation". Who or what would a global government represent, and how would it go about doing that?

Idealism:
I would like to see a country where power is independent of money or weapons.

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: satana ]


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Heather
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posted 14 October 2002 11:19 PM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As Aristotle said, "Politics is about the struggle between the rich and the poor".

"WHO GETS WHAT?"
The enormity of the wealth of some people is overwhelming. In 1997, the three richest individuals in the world had assets that exceeded the combined GDP of the 48 least-developed countries. The 15 richest individuals had assets that exceeded the total GDP of sub-Saharan Africa. The richest 32 people had wealth that exceeded the total GDP of South Asia. The richest 84 had assets that exceeded the GDP of China.
In Summary, the richest 225 individuals in the world had a combined wealth of over one trillion dollars - equal to the total annual income of almost half of the world's poorest people, or almost 2.5 billion individuals. Is this distribution of wealth reasonable? desiragle? reformable?

-Above is a quote from: An Introduction to Political Science, comparative and world politics - fourth edition by Robert J. Jackson and Doreen Jackson.

Here's another one-
Question: What is the difference between Zambia and Goldman Sachs?

Answer: One is an African country that makes 2.2 billion a year and shares it among 25 million people. The other is an investment bank that makes 2.6 billion...and shares it among 161 people.

- Is it even possible for us little babblers to reverse this trend? We certainly have our work cut out and where to begin...


edited to correct typos!

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: Anuri ]


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Zatamon
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posted 14 October 2002 11:26 PM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Anuri: - Is it even possible for us little babblers to reverse this trend? We certainly have our work cut out and where to begin...
Where to begin?

Simple.

Stop buying their shit. Stop giving them your money. Stop supporting them. It would be an excellent start for "little babblers"


From: where hope for 'hope' is contemplated | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Heather
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posted 14 October 2002 11:38 PM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Stop buying their shit.

Zatamon, I agree with you there but I don't believe it is that simple anymore.

In a documentary I watched on NAFTA, (I can't remember what it is now- i'll ask my husbaned when he gets back from walking the dog) these big corporations are buying out the small ones and keeping the small family business name.

How do we weed or sift them out? Would love some tips.

Also, due to less restrictions on imports, mulitnational business' tend to kill local business because they are cheaper to buy from.


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Zatamon
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posted 14 October 2002 11:57 PM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anuri, I can give you a lot of tips if you are seriously interested. I have been living a life-style, for some time now, as non-destructive as I could make it. It has been very important to me to cut down on my contributing to, and benefiting from, evil -- so I made the effort to find alternative solutions. However, it would be a major thread drift here, so let me know (maybe by private mail) if you wish to know more.
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Heather
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posted 15 October 2002 12:13 AM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Zatamon, I that would be great if you could share your tips - send me e-mails.

We are getting rid of our car as of November (by choice- going to be a real adjustment)and using the transit sytem. As much as we can, will buy from local family farms- even if it costs a little more, we will be able to swing it by getting rid of that damn polluting car!


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Zatamon
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posted 15 October 2002 12:16 AM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No problem, Anuri, will do it tomorrow (I am going to sleep now). Talk to you later.
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DrConway
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posted 15 October 2002 05:59 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The question of how good the representation would be in a worldwide government will have a lot to do with the granularity of the chamber.

By that, I mean that if we had a legislature with 6000 representatives, that's 1 representative per million people.

With only 600, that jumps to 1 rep per 10 million.

A first-past-the-post setup in this environment would bias the legislature heavily in favor of the urban centers of the world, and require, as I said, polarizing only about a third to a quarter of the electorate in each district because of the way it works.

By contrast, a mixed-member proportionality setup like Germany's would allow for a goodish chunk of the legislators to be picked from lists which EVERYBODY in the world would get to vote on. Thus, regional interests are balanced by a clearer picture of how the world's electorate actually breaks down in terms of political preference.

We could increase the granularity (increase the goodness of representation) by adding in an upper chamber, elected on some kind of other basis.


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TommyPaineatWork
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posted 15 October 2002 06:07 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It would just be a lot easier to declare me president dictator of the world for life.

Then, who knows, after I die it could be your turn.


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Michelle
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posted 15 October 2002 10:23 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Zatamon, I think you should start a new thread PUBLICLY and talk about it. It's true that we've had voluntary simplicity discussions before, but I think it would be great to have one again. Some of us need lots of encouragement.
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Sisyphus
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posted 15 October 2002 10:37 AM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my Utopia, the World Government would be largely absent from day-today life, authority for most things having been devolved to very local levels (councils perhaps), representing people who depend on the same local infrastructure.

This would correspond roughly to municipal authority. Taxes would be collected under various levels of authority, ending with taxes to support programs administered (at the highest level) on a roughly continental level. These would include health, environment, education, domestic trade arbitration etc.

A portion of all higher level taxes would go to the Global Organization which would have a military drawn from different regions as a function of population. I believe a compulsory service period, combined with insuring basic literacy, would be a good idea for reasons best left to a separate thread. The military would be responsible for global peacekeeping, disaster response and organizing delivery of humanitarian aid.

The GO would also act as World Bank, IMF, enforcer of environmental regulations. It's membership would be drawn from elections organized in a fair manner. What this would be, I have no idea.

The amount of bureaucracy required to maintain this system would insure that no one would ever have utter the words "Would you like fries with that ?" again .

Also, we will all be nice to each other and share and be productive and realize our innate potential .


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Lima Bean
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posted 15 October 2002 10:58 AM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Go Sisyphus Go!!
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Zatamon
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posted 15 October 2002 11:49 AM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Michelle: Zatamon, I think you should start a new thread PUBLICLY and talk about it. It's true that we've had voluntary simplicity discussions before, but I think it would be great to have one again. Some of us need lots of encouragement.
Michelle, I will gladly do it if there is enough interest. Last time I focused on the 'why' (ethical) part of it and it did not go over very well. This time I will focus on the 'how' (practical) part with tips, methods and suggestions for alternative resources.

I will try to make it as comprehensive as I can, so it will take me a few days to put it together.

Anuri, I hope you don't mind waiting for a couple of days.


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Lima Bean
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posted 15 October 2002 11:53 AM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm waiting too, Zatamon!!
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Zatamon
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posted 15 October 2002 12:28 PM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lima Bean, what you wrote in the "Don't buy the shit..." thread suggests that you will be a major contributor to the proposed new thread. I am sure I can learn a lot of useful stuff from you and many other Babblers. I have started putting the document together and will post it as soon as I am ready.
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Heather
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posted 15 October 2002 01:06 PM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Anuri, I hope you don't mind waiting for a couple of days.


Not at all. I look forward to it.


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Sisyphus
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posted 15 October 2002 01:38 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Zatamon, I too will wait with anticipa.....tion .
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satana
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posted 15 October 2002 03:39 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm also looking forward to your document, Zatamon.

I still don't like the idea of a global "government". Instead, I'de prefer a decentralized global federation of communities, based on respect and cooperation.

In my Utopia, energy and resources are inexhaustable. Everything is free. Everybody can do whatever they want and be whoever they want to be.


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Zatamon
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posted 15 October 2002 03:45 PM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, satana, I am working on it right now. BTW, I know this thread is about world government, but you mentioned Utopia and I thought I would suggest that the document I promised could be the blueprint of a practical and personal Utopia. It works for me.

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Zatamon ]


From: where hope for 'hope' is contemplated | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 15 October 2002 04:10 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree satana. A global government that works would tread as lightly as possible.

But I sense a lot of "cart-before-the-horse" thinking here. As the Doctor said, any attempt to replicate our governing structure on a global level will just lead to the same corruption and misery, but further entrenched. Before we can have a just and egalitarian federalism of nations, we can't avoid the messy business of putting our houses in order.

I feel as though people are hoping that a global government can "rise above" all our current problems, and this top-down thinking is exactly the wrong approach. We have to create effective, democratic structures here on the ground level, and let the effect trickle up.

Work to reform your community, your city or town, then your province, and then your country. Only after all this work is done (will you even live to see it? Who knows.) will Canada be one small fraction of a international global unity that is ready to create a just global system.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but it isn't any good to fool yourself with shortcuts. The hard work has to be done on the small level and spread outwards.

Of course, nobody actually said the things I'm reacting against, so perhaps I'm misinterpreting. In any case, I just wanted to get that off my chest.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
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posted 16 October 2002 02:24 AM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I still don't like the idea of a global "government". Instead, I'de prefer a decentralized global federation of communities, based on respect and cooperation.

YESSS!

quote:
In my Utopia, energy and resources are inexhaustable. Everything is free. Everybody can do whatever they want and be whoever they want to be.

Energy is inexhaustible and free: the wind blows, the sun shines, oceans ebb and flow, rivers move, chickens shit, banana-peels decompose - all of that can be used, indefinitely, without interfering with the processes. More: we already have the knowledge to make these processes work for us. Why don't we?

Resources are also inexhaustible - if we decide to leave some things alone and use only the ones that are quickly, easily replaced. We know how - we just need a reason to do it. How about: because it's a lot cheaper?

We can't do it, because... nobody would make a big profit.

Jacob 2-2 and Sisyphus, right on the money, as usual.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: nonesuch ]


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