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» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » The Stanford Prison Study redux.

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Author Topic: The Stanford Prison Study redux.
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 08 May 2002 10:14 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A researcher in Britain has revisited the Standford Prison Experiment and devised his own variation of it. And befitting our modern, sophisticated times, it's being televised on the BBC.
The Experiment

The researchers think that the conclusions of the 1971 experiment are wrong. They point out that the guards did not start acting brutally until they were prodded by the researchers and they wonder if the intervention itself was the source of the tyranny as opposed to the inherent human nature whereby people in position of power are automatically corrupted by it.

The British researchers dwell on group identity and found in their experiment that the prisoners actually took control away from the guards. They go on to argue that people inherently need structure and in the absence of a power structure, they will tolerate tyranny. Tyranny, in essence, arises from a power vacuum. The trick, then, is to impose controls on power and to make them work responsibly.

Revolutionary paradigm shifting stuff!

Read the Guardians take on the experiment in a dismissive, cynical tone.

Listen to a CBC radio clip where the British researcher explains the experiment and his conclusions (starts at 24:00:00 and goes for 10 minutes).


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 08 May 2002 10:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought the Stanford Prison Experiment was one of those things they teach you about in research methodology classes as a classic you-can't-do-this-because-it-breaches- just-about-every-ethical-guideline-there-is example...
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 08 May 2002 10:34 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if you listened to the clip, you would have heard that the experimenters put in place some stringent controls and would not, under any circumstances, tolerate violence. They even had guards and a committee of psychologists empowered to stop the experiment at any time if they thought things got out of hand.

It's not like they were wiring the brains of the participants or something.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 08 May 2002 10:47 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, Clockwork, I didn't listen to the clip. I read the entire experiment instead. If you're going to be ugly about it then I'll leave you to it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 08 May 2002 10:52 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Argh! Joke! Joke! Joke!

Sorry. You're right, my tone sounds a bit cross.

Again, I profusely apologize.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 08 May 2002 10:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I'll think about forgiveness if you...hmm. Can't think of anything good. Never mind then.

Seriously though, I have a few problems with this. I'm not sure what they're trying to prove here - they've got so many interfering safeguards in here that it would surprise me if any of the results were meaningful. I had to laugh when they said they were only using men so that they could compare it with the first study, when they're changing just about everything else about the first study to make it ethically sound as well? Warning them that this behaviour and that behaviour won't be tolerated - well yes, that's good ethically, but then they're also affecting the behaviour that's going to happen. It's not like this experiment is going to tell us anything about what people in this situation would act like naturally since it's been padded beyond recognition.

I agree with the Guardian article. There's a lot more sensation than science involved in this one. A ratings grab.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 08 May 2002 11:25 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Seriously though, I have a few problems with this. I'm not sure what they're trying to prove here - they've got so many interfering safeguards in here that it would surprise me if any of the results were meaningful.

Well, if I understand this right, the safe guards may actually be apart of the conclusions in the experiment. The researchers are asserting that tyranny is not a forgone conclusion in any power structure. They are saying that if there is a control upon power, and here is where the researchers tie in democratic structures, then any tyrannical tendencies can be constrained.

I don't agree with the Guardians language, but I understand the point. You can't tell me that if today's TV execs where around for the original experiment that they wouldn't want to put it on TV.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 08 May 2002 11:49 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't listen to the clip either. I would have to download an update on Real Player which would take an hour. Bugger that.

The minute that some one is chosen for Guard and the other Prisoner, already there is a connotation, that one is good, right and the other bad, done something wrong.

We act as we would normally as it really is a normal situation that occurs between Boss and Worker. A Boss is considered better as he makes more money and is respected for it. A Prisoner is anti establishment.

I think that we all talk about making social changes in the world but we generally go with the easiest. We really do slip into roles that we have been assigned to. Whether it is an experiment or not.


From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 09 May 2002 12:36 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I should point out here that the CBC clip has most of the juicy informetion. As the BBC program hasn't been aired yet, there is a lack material on the net about this.

Anyway, I'd respond to your post clersal, but I gotta go to sleep.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 09 May 2002 12:46 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is the juicy information worth the hour it takes to download?
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 10 May 2002 10:24 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
They point out that the guards did not start acting brutally until they were prodded by the researchers and they wonder if the intervention itself was the source of the tyranny as opposed to the inherent human nature whereby people in position of power are automatically corrupted by it.

Well, the thing about the real world is that there might be plenty of people to intervene in similar ways. This experiment, and perhaps Milgram's obedience experiment, may show that people are readily manipulated into doing horrible things. Which is still not a reassuring finding.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 10 May 2002 10:39 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Without having read the links too closely, I seem to recall that Zimbardo himself admitted after that he had become totally over involved in the whole business, and had lost all perspective.

He related that in the midst of the experiment a colleague innocently asked him about what he was using as a control group. His reaction was something like "here I am with a basement full of bad guys, and some bleeding heart academic type is asking me about control groups".

Zimbardo was fun, but he doesn't hold a candle to Stanley Milgram when it comes to "never try this at home folks" psych experiments.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 10 May 2002 10:58 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The whole think is scary. What we are capable of is horrendous.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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