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Author Topic: First Darwin, then Copernicus
B_Nichol
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posted 24 June 2005 05:45 PM      Profile for B_Nichol   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Win! Win! Win! "...$1,000 to the first person who can prove that the earth revolves around the sun."

Dated May 7, 2002, apparently this prize is still up for grabs.

"CAI will be the sole judge of whether you have successfully proven your case. But since CAI (Catholic Apologetics International) is built on its reputation of honesty and truthfulness, rest assured that if you do indeed prove your case, you will be rewarded the money."

However, "...science has no irrefutable proof that the earth revolves around the sun, and this, in my opinion, demands a literal interpretation of the Geocentric passages in Scripture."

Good luck with your entry!

The Geocentrism Challenge


From: North-central-Southern Alberta | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 24 June 2005 05:58 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
WTF? "The heliocentric parallax, Doppler-shift and stellar aberration observations prove unquestionably that the Earth itself moves back and forth around the sun." The moving Earth.

quod erat demonstradum.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 24 June 2005 06:02 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"science has no irrefutable proof that the earth revolves around the sun, and this, in my opinion, demands a literal interpretation of the Geocentric passages in Scripture."

These people are just slippery.

First of all, let's assume that science cannot prove the earth moves around the sun. That in itself would provide NO evidence in favour of "a literal interpretation" of scripture.

It would prove only that a specific hypothesis remains unproven.

I don't think I'll be spending much time on logicians such as these.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 24 June 2005 06:02 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why doesn't CAI just prove to us that the Sun revolves the Earth using the same criteria they're asking in this challenge?

Anyway, I always thought CAI was just really subtle and involved satire. I could be wrong though, I haven't read enough of their stuff.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
B_Nichol
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posted 24 June 2005 06:23 PM      Profile for B_Nichol   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Anyway, I always thought CAI was just really subtle and involved satire.

I thought the same, but I can't see any evidence of satire... they appear to be quite serious.

From: North-central-Southern Alberta | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 24 June 2005 09:05 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trust me, CAI are deadly serious.

Their apparent self-satire is entirely unintentional.

Edit: And I just realized that their "Geocentrism Challenge" is a misnomer; it should be called "Heliocentrism Challenge".

What a bunch of clowns!

[ 24 June 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 24 June 2005 09:42 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
I don't think I'll be spending much time on logicians such as these.

You asked for it!

A Lesson in Logic, from Monty Python


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 24 June 2005 10:18 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm, you'd think the Vatican Observatory would have sent them a proof by now. On the other hand, maybe the Vatican Observatory, and other good scientists, have better things to do than play logic games with these folks.
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 24 June 2005 10:45 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wouldn't that guy who was on MIR for like two years be able to prove it?
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bobolink
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posted 24 June 2005 11:57 PM      Profile for Bobolink   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, this was proved by Galileo. He observed that Venus and Mercury have phases while Mars, Jupiter and Saturn do not. The only geometry that makes this possible is that the 6 known planets (of Galileo's time) orbit the Sun on roughly the same plane and the Earth is the third planet from the Sun while Mercury and Venus are the first and second planets respectively closer to the sun. In writing up his observation, Galileo remarked that this proved the Copernican model. It would be up to Johann Kepler to calculate the precise orbits (elipses) and Sir Isaac Newton to figure out why they are elipses (law of universal gravitation).

[ 30 June 2005: Message edited by: Bobolink ]


From: Stirling, ON | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 25 June 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My entry:

Dear Geocentrically Challenged people:

I know you must be very busy, since you Catholic Apologetics have so much to apologize for, so I'll make this brief.

Also, since you obviously don't accept such things as evidence or the scientific method, I will frame my argument in terms you will readily understand and embrace:

The image of the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to me in an oil stain on my driveway yesterday and she told me that the Earth actually does revolve around the Sun.

Q.E.D.

Oh, and she said Mother Teresa says hey!

Please send my money in Canadian funds, as I do not expect ever again to have an opportunity to spend money in your wonderful country.

M. Spector

P.S. May I suggest you get a dictionary and look up "effect" and "affect". Learn the difference.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 25 June 2005 02:03 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Bobolink: Galileo ... observed that Venus and Mercury have phases while Mars, Jupiter and Saturn do not. The only geometry that makes this possible is that the 6 known planets (of Galileo's time) orbit the Sun on roughly the same plane and the Earth is the third planet from the Sun while Mercury and Venus are the first and second planets respectively closer to the sun. In witing up his observation, Galileo remarked that this proved the Copernican model. It would be up to Johann Kepler to calculate the precise orbits (elipses) and Sir Issac Newton to figure out why they are elipses (law of universal gravitaion).

Well done, Bobolink. I would just add that Tycho Brahe deserves credit for collecting much of the data that Kepler made use of. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants and "Bravo!" to them all.

Tycho Brahe


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 25 June 2005 03:16 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Wouldn't that guy who was on MIR for like two years be able to prove it?

As I remember it, it was six months, rather than the scheduled two, but I've always had a lot of sympathy for that guy.

Imagine the radio conversation on Jan. 1, 1992:

MIR: OK, comrades, I'm supposed to come back in two weeks. Where's that Vostok to pick me up?

GROUND CONTROL: We can't bring you back in two weeks. We've just run out of money, and the landing site is now in another country. You'll just have to hang on until we get to you.

And quit calling us "comrades"! That was last year!


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ryguy
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posted 27 June 2005 12:49 PM      Profile for Ryguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:

Well done, Bobolink. I would just add that Tycho Brahe deserves credit for collecting much of the data that Kepler made use of. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants and "Bravo!" to them all.

Tycho Brahe



Didn't you read the challenge, you're not allowed to argue from authority, you've got to derive your proof from personal observation and first principles apparently.


From: Calgary (under a rock) | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Policywonk
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posted 27 June 2005 09:34 PM      Profile for Policywonk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Technically the Earth and the Sun rovolve around a common point, which is deep within the Sun given the huge discrepancy in mass between them.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bobolink
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posted 28 June 2005 06:26 PM      Profile for Bobolink   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ryguy:


Didn't you read the challenge, you're not allowed to argue from authority, you've got to derive your proof from personal observation and first principles apparently.


Actually, a 4" reflector telescope available in astronomy stores has far superior optics than Galileo's telescopes. You can do this proof from personal observation.


From: Stirling, ON | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Serendipity
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posted 24 September 2005 01:18 AM      Profile for Serendipity     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guys, CAI is a comedy site.
From: montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
retread
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posted 24 September 2005 02:07 AM      Profile for retread     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Definitely a comedy site.

[possibly erroneous pedantic mode]
Its been awhile since I did physics, but if I recall correctly (big if - open to correction from any physics types) with the advent of general relativity there is no fixed reference point ... all motion is relative. The simplest description of the relative motion of the earth and sun is to say they revolve about the center of mass, but strictly speaking any point can be taken (though the math gets harder). Its not incorrect to say the sun revolves around the earth - its one of an infinite number of ways of describing the motion. You just get messy equations ... really unbelievably messy if you want to describe the path of all the planets.
[/possibly erroneous pendatic mode]


From: flatlands | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 24 September 2005 03:12 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Serendipity:
Guys, CAI is a comedy site.
Not intentionally, it isn't.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 25 September 2005 12:48 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Iam offering a prize to anyone who can conclusively prove CAI is a comedy/satire site.

Since arguements from authority are not allowed, statements from the site operators will not be considered conclusive.

The winning prize will be a free pass to troll the dark side for two days, on the forum of your choice.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 25 September 2005 09:14 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 30 September 2005: Message edited by: Southlander ]


From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 25 September 2005 09:19 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maestro:
Iam offering a prize to anyone who can conclusively prove CAI is a comedy/satire site.

Since arguements from authority are not allowed, statements from the site operators will not be considered conclusive.

The winning prize will be a free pass to troll the dark side for two days, on the forum of your choice.



thnaks for making me laugh


From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 25 September 2005 09:35 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Southlander:

thnaks for making me laugh


they are definitly being satirical. the sun must go around the earth, just go outside any sunny day and look up. (I defy anyone to prove we're moving through space, perhaps space is just spinning and moving around us?)


From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
venus_man
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posted 25 September 2005 12:04 PM      Profile for venus_man        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Question : If sun revolves around the Earth-then Earth is a centre of the Solar System or we’ll have to have multiple Suns? Earths day and that on Mars or Pluto are different, so then sun runs around the Earth in 24 hours and then what? The thing is that Sun needs to serve and constantly communicate (in its own manner)with multiple entities and therefore its more logical that each planet revolves around Sun on their own pace.

quote:
Originally posted by Policywonk:
Technically the Earth and the Sun rovolve around a common point, which is deep within the Sun given the huge discrepancy in mass between them.

Our Solar System lies 30,000 light years from the galactic center, around which it rotates. It’s like, very roughly, a complex organization. You have a director, managers, coordinators and employees performing varieties of functions. So, the department manager cannot ‘revolve’ around one employee, but rather all department employees have to ‘revolve’ around the manager so he/she will have an equal attention to them all. But space is more like a family because planets originated out of the stellar dust that resulted from the formation of the Sun.


From: outer space | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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