Author
|
Topic: Height and Intelligence Correlate?
|
500_Apples
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12684
|
posted 03 September 2006 06:28 AM
quote: Short End Tall people earn more because they're smarter. By Joel Waldfogel Posted Friday, Sept. 1, 2006, at 1:36 PM ET In the late 1970s, Randy Newman scored a hit with a song containing the lyric, "Short people got no reason to live." The line was supposed to be satire, but outraged diminutive listeners didn't see it that way. Boy, are they going to be mad at a couple of economists now.It is well-documented that short people earn less money than tall people do. To be clear, pay does not vary lock step by height. If your friend is taller than you are, then it's nearly a coin toss whether she earns more. But if you compare two large groups of people who are similar in every respect but height, the average pay for the taller group will be higher. Each additional inch of height adds roughly 2 percent to average annual earnings, for both men and women. So, if the average heights of our hypothetical groups were 6 feet and 5 feet 7 inches, the average pay difference between them would be 10 percent. But why? One possibility is height discrimination in favor of the tall. A second involves adolescence. A few years ago, Nicola Persico and Andrew Postlewaite of the University of Pennsylvania and Dan Silverman of the University of Michigan discovered that adult earnings are more sharply related to height at age 16 than to adult height—suggesting, scarily, that the high-school social order determined the adult economic order. For boys at least, height at 16 affects things like social and athletic success—scoring chicks and baskets or, as the authors put it, "participation in clubs and athletics." And maybe those things affect later earning power.
Slate.com link That's a very surprising link. I wonder if they'll see it in follow-up studies... must be a pretty weak correlation though because it doesn't already exist as a stereotype.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938
|
posted 03 September 2006 09:59 AM
(Apologies to 500 for the thread trift) quote: Originally posted by Comicbook Guy: The Japanese are smart and short. I don't think this study is very accurate.
CBG, I would like to suggest to you, not with my moderator hat on, but as a contributor to babble, to ponder and consider what it means to post here about mainstream racist stereotypes such as "The Japanese are smart." This remark, counted with your other comment about understanding why people may have hatred towards Muslims, is problematic at the very least, and is in fact repeating and reasserting racist stereotypes, even if that's not what you intended. As a progressive board, there is little interest here in reading mainstream notions of race, gender, etc, as we already know them. A gajillion other sites repeat that offensive material ad nauseum. We know the issues and try, instead, to have intelligent, critical and deconstructive conversations about them. Simply repeating mainstream opinions is not doing any of that. If you aren't sure what I'm talking about, check out some of the older threads in the anti-racism forum.
From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1275
|
posted 05 September 2006 02:21 PM
quote: A few years ago, Nicola Persico and Andrew Postlewaite of the University of Pennsylvania and Dan Silverman of the University of Michigan discovered that adult earnings are more sharply related to height at age 16 than to adult height—suggesting, scarily, that the high-school social order determined the adult economic order.
I find this very interesting, as I acheived my current height (a very average 5'10") by the age of 16, and was 5'8" entering high school. I was taller-than average for that brief period between 14 and 16, but had many of my cohort pass me in height by graduation. Yet for many years, I was the one to score the good summer jobs, while friends languished. For me, as least, the study holds true.That said, small stature can be genetic, but can also be caused by nutritional and environmental factors. Any such 'stunting' could clearly also be causal to reduced intellectual capabilities, so it would only make sense that this correlation would exist.
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Noise
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12603
|
posted 06 September 2006 03:08 PM
quote: Noise, the reference to "scoring chicks" was from the author of the article, not the author of the research paper.
Doesn't matter who said, I just thought it's a sad reflection when thats the best measure of success he could come up with for a 16 YO male Theres alot of big jumps they are making within this article however, one of the bigger ones is coresponding intelligence directly to pay. That aside... I wonder if they could include family origins and wealth into the study? Does wealth and IQ correlate? Does Height and Wealth somehow correlate? If so, are we seeing wealth = higher intelligence... Just translated through hieght? Likely the entire relation is much more complicated... nourishment at a young age tranlsates to hieght and intelligence (in which case, hieght and intellect correlate as didtated by nourishment?). Heh, maybe it does biologically correlate. Larger/taller people make the bigger leaders (stand out?) and it's the leaders that require a higher intellect? (wow, thats reaching ^^).
From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Noise
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12603
|
posted 07 September 2006 08:59 AM
Summer, that was my first take too... read further down the article: quote: Before you blast Case and Paxson with angry e-mails, let's look at their method. With detailed data from the United Kingdom, they followed two groups of kids, one born in 1958 and the other in 1970, through to adulthood. Every few years, the government collected information about height, weight, intelligence, educational experience, and, during adulthood, pay. Based on these data, Case and Paxton document once again that taller people earn more. Then they note that from an early age, height is related to intelligence. Even at age 5, a variety of intelligence measures—based on conceptual maturity, visual-motor coordination, and vocabulary—are higher on average for taller kids.This sets up the study's major finding. While height, on its own, bears a strong relation to pay, when adult height is included along with measures of childhood intelligence in pay analyses, it no longer does the explanatory work on its own. Height appears to matter, when intelligence is not included, because taller people are, on average, smarter.
I dislike the correlation between intelligence and pay as well... But I think they went further than pay with the study. added: Beh, perhaps I should read the study and not some guys opinion on the study ^^ [ 07 September 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]
From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Naci_Sey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12445
|
posted 07 September 2006 11:33 AM
The following article may be relevant to the original topic. quote: Morbid obesity in toddlers linked to lower IQ Last Updated Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:51:25 EDT CBC NewsExcess weight may take a toll on young, developing brains, say researchers who found a link between morbid obesity in toddlers and lower IQ scores later in life... "We're postulating that early-onset morbid obesity and these metabolic, biochemical problems can also lead to cognitive impairment," said Dr. Daniel Driscoll, a professor of pediatric genetics at the University of Florida. Driscoll and his colleagues studied 18 children and adults with early-onset morbid obesity — those who weighed at least 150 per cent of their ideal body weight before age four — to two other groups. The study, in the August issue of the Journal of Pediatrics, found the second group of 19 children and adults had Prader-Willi syndrome — a genetic disorder that causes people to eat non-stop and become morbidly obese at a young age if not supervised. A group of 24 normal-weight siblings who shared the same genetic and socio-economic background as the research subjects acted as controls. Children and teens who were obese as toddlers for no known genetic reason fared almost as poorly on IQ tests (average score of 78) as people with Prader-Willi (average score of 63)... "Their control siblings were 106," Driscoll said...
Full article Poor nutrition affects development, period. The powers-that-be, who bow to the gods of productivity and non-stop economic growth, should be concerned about the findings in this study. While they spend millions of dollars on programs telling people to exercise and eat their fruit and veggies, they ignore the fact that families in poverty - who already know what's good for them and what's not - cannot heed the advice. The result is that the greatest incidence of obesity in children occurs in families in poverty. The powers-that-be are going to have to take their blinkers off. Our children are our future. As more of them live in poverty, at home and globally, the future of humankind looks increasingly bleak.
From: BC | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Brian White
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8013
|
posted 07 September 2006 06:02 PM
Well, the pre famine irish were among the tallest people in europe and post famine they were the shortest. The dutch were among the shortest at the turn of the century (very poor) and now are pretty much the tallest. So, is it all about nutrition? I dont think it is genetic that when I was growing up to be 6ft 1" and a giant back in ireland everyone else were "short people". Now, 20 years later, the young people there are way way taller on average. So smarter too? Also, IBM used to have a height requirement for salesmen. If you were short, you didnt sell or earn any commission, regardless of how good you were. the same went for the irish police and english police. Again that skewed things against short people. If short people arent allowed to be high earning computer sales men or high earning cops, then how can they possibly compete (as a group) with the tall guys. And sports too. Any short basketballers? or rugby players now? And these are high earners too. I think it is BS. And if I thought really hard, i could think of a short smart person i know, so there! at least one Still thinking. OOPS well, i will try again later. YUP
From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465
|
posted 07 September 2006 11:33 PM
From an Animal genetics point of view. Cross bred animals (parents from different gene pools) are taller, better milkers (breast is best), healthier, better able to withstand disease, more fertile, and smarter (better able to get through fences, avoid dogs, keep mothered-up, avoid drenching etc). This would explain the height of the Irish (Scottish, Nortic and Spanish influence -black Irish, and red heads), and the skill of the All Blacks (NZ).
From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|