babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » Lenin's legacy

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Lenin's legacy
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 24 July 2002 01:39 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seize the day: Lenin's legacy

quote:
In 1917, fighting against the tide of Bolshevik opinion, Lenin claimed that there is no 'proper time' for revolution, simply emerging opportunities which must be seized. Slavoj Zizek argues that the left today needs Lenin's lessons more than ever.

From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 24 July 2002 02:39 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The article kind of meanders a bit; I'm afraid I'm not sure I get the point the author wanted to make. (It doesn't help that I'm not familiar with either Marxist or Hegelian dialectics)
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 24 July 2002 11:11 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, unfortunately it is very poorly and opaquely written. But if you can wade through it, he says a lot of interesting, indeed surprising things -- for example, Lenin was against economism?!
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 24 July 2002 12:03 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
At least it's not something like "Lenin's Guide to Management".
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 24 July 2002 12:35 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't find the article so badly written or difficult. Of course, it has its own vocabulary, which is mostly Lenin's. "Economism", for example,
refers to the idea that economic conditions, by themselves, will cause the proletariat to become revolutionary. Lenin, of course, argued that this would never occur, that revolutionary consciousness had to be brought to the working classes "from without", meaning from a party of professional revolutionaries.

I think the main point is that leftists shouldn't just wait around to make a revolution...they should leap at it, cause it by the force of their convictions and acts. I think that this, in fact was Lenin's biggest historical achievement; in the face of social democrats waiting for history
to move in their direction, he "telescoped the dialectic".

It is an open question whether doing so forced Soviet Socialism into a 70 year cul-de-sac, though. I am not competent to address that question.

I very much dislike what Zizek has to say about "authenticity" though. This is a buzzword from existentialism, but here twisted somewhat. While existentialists like the "authentic", nazis always liked "the primitive". Zizek's suggestion that violence and tanks in the streets are "authentic" could be used by any tyrant, from Pinochet to Stalin to the next guy, tomorrow.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 24 July 2002 12:41 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I fully agree with your last point, Jeff. I was going to write a longer post about the whole article, maybe tomorrow when I have time.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 July 2002 12:48 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Voluntarism: doctrines of the will; ie: the notion that it's enough to will or want a revolution to make one, that one can "telescope the revolution": good Marxists are supposed to have learned from Marx that this is a fallacy. Trotsky reflected on this problem -- unfortunately, not well enough.

There is no direction and no solace here, I fear but I believe.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 24 July 2002 04:43 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interestingly, in Slovenia Zizek is active in a centrist political party...
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
london
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2909

posted 27 July 2002 09:01 PM      Profile for london     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lenin was a crock; no difference between him and a CEO of uber-monopoly in a state-capitalist system, which in fact that’s exactly what the "Soviet" (Lenin also virtually destroyed these; democratic workers councils, after using them to gain power) Union was, aside from some rhetoric, although some of it is the same ("trust us, we the will serve the publics best interests"). We have him and others to blame for the misconception of socialism as it originally mean - workers ownership, and democracy, to a uber-mononpoly state capitalism controlled by the intelligentsia, for the "common good”. Absolutly no difference between Lenin and if a board of CEO’s directly controlled society.
From: United States of the North American Empire | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 29 July 2002 10:56 AM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A shorter comment on Lenin in Critical Inquiry
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 29 July 2002 02:48 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Carrère d'Encausse makes it clear that the Stalinist state apparatus grew out of the NEP compromise. If the state was to step back and make room for the market, private property and so on, it had to achieve a tighter control of society so that the gains of the revolution would not be endangered by the emerging new classes. A capitalist economic infrastructure was to be counterbalanced by a socialist political and ideological superstructure.

So Stalinism was made possible, even inevitable, by the vestiges of capitalism in society? I don't believe it for a minute.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 29 July 2002 05:53 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, not like Stalinism wasn't a result of one man's paranoia and desire for absolute power or anything...
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 29 July 2002 06:51 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I think (to paraphrase the old line about war and generals) that Stalinism was too important to be ascribed merely to Stalin.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca