quote:

---

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion. Sometimes you have to slap it to make it work properly, just like the Tardis (Doctor Who, incidentally, would definitely use a PC). PCs have charm; Macs ooze pretension. When I sit down to use a Mac, the first thing I think is, "I hate Macs", and then I think, "Why has this rubbish aspirational ornament only got one mouse button?" Losing that second mouse button feels like losing a limb. If the ads were really honest, Webb would be standing there with one arm, struggling to open a packet of peanuts while Mitchell effortlessly tore his apart with both hands. But then, if the ads were really honest, Webb would be dressed in unbelievably po-faced avant-garde clothing with a gigantic glowing apple on his back. And instead of conducting a proper conversation, he would be repeatedly congratulating himself for looking so cool, and banging on about how he was going to use his new laptop to write a novel, without ever getting round to doing it, like a mediocre idiot.

---

I freely admit that I'm posting this in order to troll Wayne. Well, and because I think it's funny. And because I thought it might make for an interesting conversation.

P.S. I also freely admit to stealing this link from a babbler's facebook account. I won't say whose because he posts under an alias here and using his real name on facebook.

[ 17 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

What you want to do is "share my winter photos with my pals" or "edit this video of my wedding" or "write a letter to my Dad" or "listen to music on my MP3 player". You know, the stuff that folks who don't wear a lot of concert t-shirts after the age of 15 like to do on computers.

Actually most people don't want to use computers. They want a photo editing appliance or a music listening appliance. They want their computers to be invisible, the way a toaster is. It just makes toast. It doesn't expect you to know how to configure a rheostat.

PCs do. They are designed by people who like to dick around with computers for people they force to dick around with computers. If you like the smell of long chain esters wafting from an open case, God speed with a PC. If you just want to get real world things done, pick another operating system.

I use a computer to print pictures, not so I can configure printer drivers. I use a computer to make videos not to make videocards work with my software. If I wanted to fart around with electronics in my spare time I would have bought a 1000 projects in one kit from The Source.

And, if I wanted to deal with an operating system full of arcane error messages and gussied up with a cheap plastic version of OSX user interface, I would have bought Vista and then wished I could retrograde back to XP, like a lot of Windows users.

2. Identify the software that best meets those needs.

3. Identify the hardware that best runs that software.

quote:

---

Originally posted by farnival:
just like Windows!

---

pogge, your's and wayne's posts combined sum things up very nicely.

in the print trade, i started using Unix based workstations that came on the scene in the late '80s, pre-Pagemaker/Quark/Photoshop being commercially viable. we then combined Mac production machines, PC Rips running scaled down versions of the big workstation Unix OS, with pagination and final assembly on the larger machines. All the while using first Unix based, then Windows NT servers. As the Macs became more robust on a memory/storage level, the big Unix machines were phased out, and all production and pagination moved to the Macs. We kept 2 PCs at the shop for the occasional home designer who went big and didn't upgrade, but since the entire design and pre-press industry is Mac baased, not very practical or lucrative. Our frontline downloading/email machines MUST be Mac O/S if only from a basic virus threat level. There isn't one on the Mac O/S.

at home, i do what wayne described. i use my flowerpot style 2002 G4 Mac running Tiger o/s for serving my music wirelessly and flawlessly to my stereos all over the house, and surfing the net and checking email. simple. i could dial it us as a full print production machine but why when i have nice machines at work? anyone that comes over with their laptops connect to my router with the password. no drivers to download or silly errors. simple.

ETA to add the smiley face:

[ 17 December 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

[ 18 December 2007: Message edited by: The Wizard of Socialism ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wayne MacPhail:
[QB]Computers should be invisible. Not invisible in the "What the hell is holding up the picture of your kids, Jim?" kind of way, invisible in that they should just get out of your way and let you do what you want to do. And, most often what you want to do is not "update my virus profile" or "authorize access" or "install a service pack" or decode "error message 34c23f".

---

I've used a similar line of reasoning m'self, but as a musician, I put it this way to most PC zealots who like to run on about the "illiteracy" of Mac users:

Do you own any music CDs, DVDs, albums, MP3s, etc? When you use that music, do you want to think about all the technological stuff that went into producing that music - sound engineering/mastering, recording techniques, equalisation, compression, etc.? What about the instruments themselves, do you know anything about how an electric guitar and amplifier works? What strings does the guitar player use? How big is that bass drum and what sort of heads did they use, how were they tensioned and did they use any dampening? Did they use one mic internally, or did they mix a batter mic and a mic on the resonant side? And what about techniques: does that drummer play with an index finger or middle finger fulcrum and are they using traditional or matched grip? If matched is it French, German or American grip? Do you think he uses the Moeller Technique? Isn't that a cool 3 over 2 polyrhythm the bassist just played, and oooooh, the odd-note groupings by the rhythm guitar in the bridge - what was that, groups of 5 16th notes? And the way he voiced that Dm7-5 chord, wasn't that lovely? You don't know all of that? Whaddya mean you just want to "listen to it"? How dare you call yourself a music user?!? You're just lazy and don't want to bother getting to know how to actually play music and how music really "works".

[ 18 December 2007: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Yes, but you see, if you want to learn how to play your computer, by learning to read and manipulate the code, neither Apple nor Windows will provide you that code to do so.

If Apple and Microsoft were around in another era, we might all be readers, but very few of us would be writers.

---

All the worse that you all have the opportunity to know everything there is to know about music and you don't....

Either way, I think it's time we put certain romantic notions about the "Renaissance Man" to rest. There is simply too many discrete bodies of knowledge that effect our lives in huge ways to have every individual be an expert in all of them. Surely we can hope for some "common sense understanding" of how many things work, but honestly, I'm not going to grill my mechanic, my computer repair person, my neurosurgeon, my plumber, my traffic planner, my person-who-calibrates-the-infrared-sensors-on-automatic-doors, about every aspect of what I do. I no more expect them to know a paradiddle from a ratamacue than anyone should expect your average computer user (i.e. not builder/technician) to know about how the flashing typewriter/jukebox/filing cabinet in front of them really works. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to know as much as we can about things, and I do believe that a little bit of knowledge of, say, music theory or how a computer works, can go a long way toward increasing our enjoyment when using them and perhaps stretch some neural muscles that don't get stretched often enough. If everyone put a serious effort into continuous learning just about the various knowledges that act upon their lives we'd have no need for those Nintendo DS brain-training gadgets that are firing off prefontal-cortex synapses everywhere. But to expect expert-level understanding out of everyone about everything - especially something as complex as computing - is just vanity and self-importance on the part of the computer geeks.

We can only bother to know so much. I lived with programmers and web/rich media designers for years, and trust me, hexadecimal jokes aren't funny...

[ 18 December 2007: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
What is the price of that BMW Mac and all the software by the way? Just so the folks on the other side of the digital divide know how they measure up.

ETA to add the smiley face:

[ 17 December 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

---

well, FM, my analogy was meant to be somewhat silly too.

but to answer your question, say for argument's sake the bmw 3 series and the civic all zooted up, cost 20 grand. the bmw is well known to be reliable, you can buy thier certified series used vehicles that are re-warrenteed and require minimal service and maintainance. so you just go do stuff with it. the civic on the other hand, is a mix of aftermarket parts that you chose, not the manufacturer, and may not be entirely compatible, which you won't know until you are out somewhere and it craps out. sure you can fix it, but your date isn't too impressed you're late for dinner and the movie you planned.

a fully loaded new Intel iMac or Macbook Pro laptop is going to cost you about 3 grand. running either car is roughly about 8-10 thousand a year, and the cost of the Mac to run it as purchased is the cost of your power usage, and if you aren't using pirate software, a hundred or so dollars a year for authorised software, not hardware, upgrades.

my previously mentioned iMac is a 2002 model, i paid $1000 for it in 2003, and aside from a $200 external harddrive and $110 wireless airport express router, i've spent nothing, zilch, on it. never had it serviced. no viruses. no need to fight with upgrades or peripherals, drivers and who knows what else. this machine has been humming along for 5 years, every day, with zero problems and always works. so, if you look at my $1310.00 expense over the 5 years, that's $262 per year hassle free to do what most folks do with their computers...surf the net, listen to music, check email. judging by my friends' experiences, who balked at the initial cash outlay, but have gone through multiple laptops or just junked their desktop PCs when they were so crapped out with viruses even their tech service gave up, seems like a pretty good bargain. a used mac for the average user is far more of a sensible purchase financially than the headache and delays caused by a new windows machine.

and to make the analogy even sillier, way cheaper than owning and running any kind of car.

[ 18 December 2007: Message edited by: The Wizard of Socialism ]

quote:

---

But to expect expert-level understanding out of everyone about everything - especially something as complex as computing - is just vanity and self-importance on the part of the computer geeks.

---

quote:

---

but your date isn't too impressed you're late for dinner and the movie you planned.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
strawman

---

I wasn't making that point in response to yours. I was just riffing. But, if you see a strawman, kick him down! I can appreciate vigor.

[ 19 December 2007: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Yes, but you see, if you want to learn how to play your computer, by learning to read and manipulate the code, neither Apple nor Windows will provide you that code to do so.

If Apple and Microsoft were around in another era, we might all be readers, but very few of us would be writers.

---

Apple doesn't make all its code available, but a lot of it is available, including the unix core. You can find it - and further information - here or here.

[ 20 January 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]