Also - CBC radio reporter just said that the Afghan civil war hasn't been in Kabul for a few years.

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U.S. intelligence officials tell CNN "there are good indications that persons linked to Osama bin Laden may be responsible for these attacks." The sources say they based the statement on specificinformation that had been gathered Tuesday.

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This is based on his pattern of attacks, the money and sophisticated planning this would need, and a warning he issued three weeks ago.

You know, I saw the second plane crash into the world trade centre live (you should have heard the commentators if you actually didn't), but the thing that really got to me since the world trade centre didn't really seem real is the pictures of people hanging out of the buildings above the crash sites. My God.

This can be our best time - we will stand ready to defend our nation and allies against further attacks, and protect us against such terrorist attacks. This has been unprecedented in world history.

Yes, I agree that if this does turn out to be of Middle Eastern origin (which has by no means been proven yet, though considering recent events it's the most likely possibility) we need to remain aware of the larger context of American support for Israel and the resulting ignorance of the pressing and important issues of the Palestinians. Unfortunately, I think I'm very much right in saying that this will very much harden the attitude of both American policymakers and the public toward Palestinians and bind the American and Israeli governments even more tightly together as they would now share the common problem of terrorism in support of the Palestinians.

“I came down here to help, but the first thing I saw was a man with no head. How do I help?”
- a volunteer who headed down to the WTC said to a free lance reporter.
(I hope people consider these soundbites news… I know these can seem quite trite)

U.S. denies responsibility for Afghanistan explosions

Sept. 11, 2001 | KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) --

Explosions could be heard early Wednesday north of the capital, in the vicinity of the airport. Large plumes of smoke were seen.

The explosions began around 2:30 a.m. and came in rapid succession, seconds apart, making buildings shudder.

There were no sounds of airplanes or anti-aircraft fire.

Officials could not be reached at the airport.

Taliban soliders in the center of Kabul said the explosions seemed to begin with a low flying helicopter that fired rockets into the area at the airport. There was some return fire by Taliban with anti-aircraft weapons, the soldiers said.

The explosions came hours after the devastating attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington.

American officials said the United States was not involved in the Kabul explosions.

I just shed my first tear of the day.

MSNBC: Bodies, strewn ALL over the place and buried under up to three feet of ash, are being run over by emergency vehicles.

Casualty numbers are starting to come in, and there's no way I can keep up with them.

Fuck!!!

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MSNBC: The USS Enterprise has left the Persian Gulf but has been ordered to stay in that area of the Indian Ocean.

MSNBC: Ambulances that went in to the WTC area to help were crushed by the falling towers.

[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]

MSNBC: Footage now of hordes of people walking across one of the big suspension bridges between NYC and New Jersey. It's surreal.

The comments by eyewitnesses and survivors are absolutely heart-breaking.

CNN: The only sound in lower Manhattan right now is the sound of church bells.

CNN: A northern Afghan group has claimed responsibility for Kabul attacks, and the Taliban conirms that the attacks were not from the US, but from northern Afghanistan.

CNN: There are four possible suspect foreign organizations/states who may be responsible. Domestic terrorists have been completely ruled out.

Citytv: Elementary school children are being kept at school until they can confirm thaat they have parents to go home to.

Man, seeing a tough guy like Giuliani nearly in tears is really hard to watch.

CNN: One commentator said that the last time there was this many Americans lost on one day was during the Civil War. Another commentator said that the death toll could be greater than the London Blitz.

CNN: The executive producer of Frasier was on board one of the planes.

MSNBC: Jet fuel burns so hot that it's presumed that the steel girders of the buildings actually melted.

CNN: Gas prices in some places in the US are as high as $5 per gallon.

CNN: FBI is getting search warrants in South Florida and Daytona.

MSNBC: Over 800 reported dead at the Pentagon.

CNN: The NYC medical examiner was injured, was treated, and is now back at work.

Five firefighters, one police officer rescued from the towers.

CBC radio

Salon.com: Source: Bin Laden denies involvement

Village Voice: Team Bush Swamped by Crisis

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Joining us are Lawrence Eagleburger, who was Secretary of State in the first Bush administration; James Woolsey, who was CIA Director in the Clinton administration; and David Boren, who was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee during the Gulf War. He is now president of the University of Oklahoma. Larry Eagleburger, beginning with you, how do you read the President's speech? What was he saying do you think in terms of his intentions and this country's intentions in the way of responding to this event?

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PBS NewsHour

... make no mistake ... we will rally the world ... they can't run for cover forever ... they think their harbours are safe, they will not be safe forever ...

ABCnews: Hospitals are dealing with quite a few patients who have had heart attacks from the strain and shock of events. One video-journalist had a heart attack from the strain of the images he was capturing.

ABCnews: Colin Powell just said that he's talked to "Prime Minister Manley of Canada". About a minute later he corrected himself.

US Ambassador to Canada: "We now know that Canada is our closest friend and we are grateful."

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Dubya. Yesterday I couldn't help but think, "Hey Dubya, see if you can divert some planes to your most important Mexican friends." Oh well. I guess it's about time a US president acknowledged the importance of Mexico so I shouldn't be annoyed.

Eek, he just suggested that our immigration policies (Canada's and the US's) should be more "coordinated". In other words, just wait until they start dictating our immigration policy to us.

Abcnews: Some of the terrorists were trained as pilots in the United States.

ABC's Sam Donaldson: IF it can be PROVED that Osama Bin Laden is responsible, the Taliban will be asked to publically turn him over to the US. IF the Taliban refuses to do this, then a massive military action will be taken against Afghanistan.

Heavy emphasis on "if".

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CBC Radio just reported that NATO has decreed that an attack on one NATO member will now be interpreted as an attack on ALL NATO members.
This is unprecedented.

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CBC Radio later said this is per Article 5 of the NATO charter. NATO was started up ostensibly for mutual self-defence against the Warsaw Pact nations.

It appears to me that Yahoo may be the best place to get the latest news on events in NYC and Washington.

So is this:

Satellite photo of the Pentagon:

Satellite photo of Manhattan:

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]

[Edited to remove extremely long URLs that were causing side-scrolling since the original content is no longer at those URLs anyhow. Michelle.]

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Michelle ]

[Edited out another extremely long URL that was causing side scroll because the content is no longer at that URL - Michelle]

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Besides, it's excellent advertising - our corporation is SO humane see how we extended a hand to the competition? You can't buy that kind of good will.

10 people are in custody. 9 men, and 1 woman.

All were arested at either la Guardia, or JFK. They all had false identification.

Several of them had knives, and other sharp objects, as well as flying certificates from the same Florida flying school that some of the other terrorists had attended.

ABC news suggests they were attempting another similar terrorist attack. Possibly taking down what the others had missed.

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Read in the province today that miraculously, US authorities "knew" that the primary target was the White House, and so this was why Dubya was flying around for 8 hours that day.

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Do you believe this Dr. Conway?

I think it is spin. There was criticism of Bush flying away. Some said he should be in Washington showing leadership and demonstrating strength. And then, they say Air Force 1 was a target and that is why Bush was hiding.

Reuters: The plane that struck the Pentagon circled Washington DC, including the White House and the Capitol Building before heading towards the Pentagon.

On Tuesday, there were many conflicting stories about how many planes there were, car bombs, etc. There were stories of planes going down in Colorado and San Fransisco. Considering how chaotic Tuesday was, I think it's spurious to suggest cover-ups about the number of planes, etc... It's idle speculation, and not at all helpful or useful, IMHO.

I don't think there's a need to close the thread. I just think people need to use it for real news, and not idle speculation.

NPR news: Both black boxes from the Pentagon crash have been found. Only the flight data recorder has been found from the Pennsylvania crash.

Globe and Mail: Both George W. Bush and George Bush Sr. are urging Americans not to harrass or hurt those of Arab descent. The elder Mr. Bush took pains to explain that Muslims believe "in a God of love and mercy."

I just believe in respecting the intended raisons d'etre of the threads.

And on that note . . .

ABC News On-line: The public is closing ranks in numbers unseen since the Gulf War. More than nine in 10 approve of President Bush's response, and 86 percent approve of his job performance in general — a 31-point leap, to a level unmatched since his father's just over a decade ago.

CBC'S Counterspin: Last night on Counterspin, an American commentator said that America was not an imperialist power, provoking laughter from the studio audience. His attempt to defend the opinion met with more laughter -- although not cruel laughter.

Yahoo.ca: Chandler said Bombardier and automobile manufacturers could reverse their losses next week if investors start to think that an economy based on making war-related products will take over from what is seen as sagging consumer demand.

"I think this will provide the bottom for the market...what we need for a kick-start was not consumer spending, but capital spending. GM can keep people employed making troop carriers and tanks rather than cars," said Chandler. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/010914/5/aehd.html

That's kinda icky...

A war economy would create full employment for the first time in many years in Canada, and would return the USA to full employment with substantial wage increases for workers.

Yet this war economy is fundamentally unsound, as it depends on thumping somebody else into the ground.

Thread drift alert, BTW.

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Yet this war economy is fundamentally unsound, as it depends on thumping somebody else into the ground.

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Besides, we do waste a lot of material that would have to be recycled to keep an efficient war economy going. Plastics, paper, metals, you name it.

A debate about "what is news" is commendable. However, as I posted earlier, there isn't much news coming out right now from the mainstream. It's mostly speculation and innuendo and "human" stories, as they call it in the biz (ugh). And it's lead people to have discussions like the one above, which are worthwhile, but weren't the intention of this thread.

As well, the thread is getting kind of long. I'm closing it. Lots more places for people to go.