babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » The American Empire

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: The American Empire
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 06 January 2003 04:36 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this interesting. It's by Michael Ignatieff, whom we all know, I'm sure, and although I think he's a little too optimistic about the US government's intentions in the Middle East, I hope that time will prove me wrong.
From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 06 January 2003 05:31 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting, but not careful. He continually repeats propoganda as fact (Iraq and N Korea as "rogue" states who are hell bent on selling suitcase bombs to terrorists, and other questionable "facts" scattered throughout the essay). Maybe he's trying to be ironic, but it isn't coming through in his writing.

He's fooling himself about the US. It is already an empire...the future action in Iraq has no bearing on whether it "becomes" an empire. It has been an empire since the earliest days of interventions in South American politics. Hell even Manifest Destiny was imperialism, in it's most brutal form (imperialism leading to willful genocide).


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 06 January 2003 05:40 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I assumed he knew that and was talking about America's acknowledging itself as an empire.

I agree about the Iraq thing. I think he's much too optimistic about the US.

I thought his take on Israel/Palestine was quite good, though. The Muslim world would probably be much less angry at the West if that situation improved, and neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians seem able to deal with it properly.

[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 06 January 2003 08:11 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On a related note, military spending in the USA is slated to be $400 billion for FY 2003.

In 2001, it was $320 billion. In 2002, $355 billion. This year, $400 billion.

Those increases represent roughly 10% per year growth, well in excess of the inflation rate and an encroaching portion of the federal budget (currently approximately 18%, not backing in Veterans' Affairs spending or projected CIA "black budget" spending in conjunction with Army Intelligence).

Empire the USA definitely is. An imperial nation is always hobbled by its need for gargantuan levels of military might, and the USA is no exception.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2798

posted 09 January 2003 07:40 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
America's empire is not like empires of times past, built on colonies, conquest and the white man's burden....
It's called neocolonialism.

A real expansionist empire would actually be a much more humane alternative. Half the world would jump at the chance of getting American citizenship. If the US offered real liberation and equality to the rest of the world today, the US would be a territorially contiguous federation of patriotic citizens from NewYork to Cairo to Manila to LA.

The "freedom" he goes on about isn't "free". It comes at a price. The nation-states and the the ruling elites the US creates and supports "owe" their existence and continued survival to the US. Nation-building is expensive. Who do think payed for the Gulf "War"? The Gulf states. Saudi Arabia has been in debt since the war. And any war or peace process in the middle-east will be payed for with Gulf oil.

In this article, "freedom" and "democracy" mean alignment with American interests. "Tyranny" and "chaos" really mean independence from American interests. The article is about stability for the US and its world order. The author doesn't seem able imagine that people can achieve freedom and peace without kissing Washington's feet.

To Americans anything that stands in the way of their free-market evangelism is evil and must be contained. In this sense, Islamists really are a threat to the American interests, because they beieve in uncompromised independence.

quote:
Those who want America to remain a republic rather than become an empire imagine rightly, but they have not factored in what tyranny or chaos can do to vital American interests. The case for empire is that it has become, in a place like Iraq, the last hope for democracy and stability alike. Even so, empires survive only by understanding their limits. Sept. 11 pitched the Islamic world into the beginning of a long and bloody struggle to determine how it will be ruled and by whom: the authoritarians, the Islamists or perhaps the democrats. America can help repress and contain the struggle, but even though its own security depends on the outcome, it cannot ultimately control it. Only a very deluded imperialist would believe otherwise.
Indeed.

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: satana ]


From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 28 January 2003 02:22 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*bump!* *CRASH*

Didn't mean to knock that delicate thread vase off the mantel.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca