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Author Topic: Thanks for nothing!
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 01 November 2008 05:27 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

Yes, well, so long and thanks for all the fish!



That's it, Michelle? Rather "late in the day?"

Just curious. Why was trolling okay in the case of a fellow whose defense was specious, at best, and just blatantly challenging to you or whoever the blessed moderator was, at the time?

No warning whoa. No appeal to manners in the face of reactions that were whole-hearted, that came from people who cannot be anything but honest in the strength of their convictions?

The cat was playing with his audience - for it was surely just another in the style of the late laughingatu.

Sure, we should have just walked away from a bastard that can find pleasure in inflicting pain. But any moment, authority was about to enter...and then didn't.

But what does one feel from the sidelines?

Is there a bit of a vicarious thrill there too?


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14090

posted 01 November 2008 05:34 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I am just going to ignore all those kinds of comments from now on and and not engage in a fruitless, pointless, counterproductive, useless power struggle conversations.

After that, it will just be about leaving.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 01 November 2008 05:44 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You put me to shame, jan.

I just haven't been able to walk away from such indignities and stupidity, lately.


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 November 2008 05:49 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh please. By the time I came along, I'd have had to chastise half the posters in the thread for misbehaviour.

You're all adults. Act like it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 01 November 2008 05:55 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Adults can do far worse things than act like children. Children can sometimes be just too honest for the comfort of adults around them.


But what IS the template for moderators?


I've been told in the last couple of days that I had better not enter onto FN territory around here for having the temerity to use the word "tribal".


What should we expect from the mods?


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 01 November 2008 06:00 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:
I just haven't been able to walk away from such indignities and stupidity, lately.

You're not the only one. It's an internet phenomenon.

Next time someone with a seven-letter name is trying to provoke you, and you've written your provoked response, stop, think, and DO NOT hit the "Add Reply" button. It only encourages thread drift.

Instead, ignore him, and go back to what we were saying before someone interrupted.

This seems to be hard for many of us to do. Try harder.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 November 2008 06:00 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've already given my answer in this earlier thread that was started on exactly the same subject (not sure why you felt the need to start a duplicate thread).

Anyhow, that thread is now closed because it was basically being used as a vehicle to attack one particular person, and it devolved into personal attacks all around. If this thread goes that way, it will be closed too.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 01 November 2008 06:02 AM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:
What should we expect from the mods?

A sound thrashing for not doing as we're told.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 01 November 2008 06:06 AM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Anyhow, that thread is now closed...

Just as I clicked the Add Reply too. It was then that I realized I had spent far too much time on my last sentence.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 01 November 2008 06:12 AM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:
I just haven't been able to walk away from such indignities and stupidity, lately.(

It's all part of our charm.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 01 November 2008 06:13 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

This seems to be hard for many of us to do. Try harder.



You're right, Wilf. I'll turn the urge to wring a neck into a raid on the fridge.

I just knew that Skinner's thoughts would come in useful someday.

Thanks.


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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Babbler # 14090

posted 01 November 2008 06:29 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:

You're right, Wilf. I'll turn the urge to wring a neck into a raid on the fridge.

I just knew that Skinner's thoughts would come in useful someday.

Thanks.


Than we would have to talk about turning that negative energy into something positive like eating from good food groups, going for walks and meditation.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 November 2008 06:48 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's what I'm seeing. There has been some major polarization building up over the course of weeks, or months, between babblers. It's always about history, not about what's actually happening in any particular thread.

So, someone starts a thread and no one has done anything wrong. But because certain people have a history with others, they start getting offended at EVERYTHING the people they don't like have written, taking everything the other says in the worst possible way, perhaps even imagining into the person's posts something that isn't there.

And it happens with everyone involved in this mess. There was nothing wrong with Cueball's original post in the thread yesterday. Brian can't expect to post on babble without being challenged on what he has written previously if it is related to what he is writing currently.

But because certain people on this site don't like Cueball because of past interactions with him, they read sneering and nastiness into his post that just weren't there, and then they got completely triggered by it. Which then, of course, led to Cueball actually doing the sneering people were expecting (maybe hoping?) to see him do.

And Cueball does that too, of course - he sometimes sees sneers that aren't there because of past interactions and responds in kind. And so do I. And so does everyone.

We're getting dragged into conversational patterns that are shaped by our past interactions. If we all met each other, we'd probably really like each other - including Cueball, by the way. You'd never act like this to each other's faces. (Well, you might, but I doubt it.)

When we read each other's posts, maybe it would help to take a moment before hitting "add reply" and ask ourselves:

"Am I being triggered by this person's post?"

"If this statement was made by someone I really liked, would I interpret it the same way as I'm interpreting it now?"

"Is it possible that the tone I'm reading into this post is not the same tone the person is actually using?"

"Is this person ACTUALLY breaking babble policy, or am I straining hard to interpret babble policy in a way that makes this person fall outside of it because I don't like him/her?"

"Is this slight something I can simply ignore instead of fighting? Am I picking my battles wisely?"

"Am I remembering that there is a real, live person on the other end of this conversation? Would I say this to his/her face if we met at a party or if s/he was sitting in my living room?"

As someone who has met many, many babblers in person (including ones I've really gotten mad at online, and even including some banned babblers), I've learned this lesson more than once: there are real people behind the computer screen, and I haven't met any yet who have been without any redeeming qualities. It's easy to demonize disembodied aliases without faces online and really get ourselves worked up about them. I think it must be just part of human nature to do that. This medium brings out the best AND the worst in us.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
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Babbler # 9046

posted 01 November 2008 08:12 AM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So first a confession. I can fly off the handle so I am not talking about me in what will follow.

I think Michelle you may be reading more into what Cueball is claiming than is fact. The innocent post you reference starts off as suggested, but then ends with a completely unnecessary attack. So it is not as claimed.

As well I think you need to look at the kind of reactions that occur from posters who are otherwise quite willing to accept criticism (not me I will admit). Now I am not talking about the usual suspects, but rather people who are often self-deprecating, don't attack others even if they strongly disagree, and are generally a positive influence.

I see several of those kinds of babblers who react that way to the posts in that thread and in others where this goes on. In fact, the only poster they seem to react like that too is Cueball. Shouldn't that suggest that maybe more is going on than just history? That just maybe they see something that you are missing? Shouldn't they be given some of the benefit of the doubt that always seems to stick with this poster?

These same posters often joke with those who are critical of the NDP in a funny kind of comradary, sometimes agree with the criticism or simply post an alternative view. Yet it does not happen here. I think that is worth reflection. I have also noticed a real tendency to stalk NDP positive threads, and even posters, to ensure critical comments are made that often are attacking the posters through the NDP, not being critical of the NDP as claimed. There is a pattern here with all due respect you seem to be missing.


From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 01 November 2008 08:53 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
It's always about history...

I tend to think of it as people feeling entitled to take their grudge matches with them wherever they go and there does seem to be a lot of it around here lately. I always thought it was bad form to bring a grievance from one thread into another. But it's not at all unusual here to see a thread that starts out innocently enough suddenly become dominated by two (or sometimes more) people who square off and continue the same argument they've been having for days. Or weeks. Or months. Sometimes you'll see the same argument spread across three or four threads at the same time, as if people are literally chasing each other around the board. If y'all want to abuse each other, it would be neat if you could at least stay on topic while you're doing it.

I'm probably as likely to get owly as anyone else -- and maybe moreso since I quit smoking -- but I try to leave any temper behind when I leave a thread and start each new conversation as a clean slate. And if I figure a particular thread doesn't interest me, I don't make a point of posting to say "This thread doesn't interest me." I move on to something that does. Even if -- gasp! -- it means checking out other sites.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mojoroad1
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15404

posted 01 November 2008 10:12 AM      Profile for Mojoroad1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Yes, well, so long and thanks for all the fish!

Since I already made my views known on the Mr.Topps "Thank you" thread regarding the...ahem, issue at hand, I leave this topic and will try to heed the advice of some others (and myself actually) and try my best to ignore future games of "Billiards".

As for the fish...somehow, Michelle, quoting Douglas Adams was apropos.... To expand on the fish metaphor I believe that this might just have as much relevance with regards to the issue at hand

[ 01 November 2008: Message edited by: Mojoroad1 ]


From: Muskoka | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 01 November 2008 11:35 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:

You're not the only one. It's an internet phenomenon.

Next time someone with a seven-letter name is trying to provoke you, and you've written your provoked response, stop, think, and DO NOT hit the "Add Reply" button. It only encourages thread drift.

Instead, ignore him, and go back to what we were saying before someone interrupted.

This seems to be hard for many of us to do. Try harder.


Actually that is not at all true. You routinely reply to what I say. You are even doing it now. You sometimes have done this directly, and at other times use other peoples responses as a starting point for answering what I say.

What you do not do is quote what I say. In one on one conversation this would be akin to deliberately shunning someone by talking over them, or around them, something that some people would identify as extreme arrogance and behaviour that is more common to high school locker rooms than serious discussion.

But I am not that sensitive, so it doesn't really bother me. You could engage me directly, and that would be the mature thing to do. If you were really sincere in your efforts to ignore my critical commentary you would not even bring it up, as you are doing now, you would simply not comment on what I say at all.

Starting with this post, try and live up to your own professed ideals for once, and please don't comment at all.

[ 01 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 01 November 2008 11:47 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Seven letters"... hmmm... W I L F D A Y!!! What do I win?
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
1weasel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11633

posted 01 November 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for 1weasel        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

What you do not do is quote what I say. In one on one conversation this would be akin to deliberately shunning someone by talking over them, or around them, something that some people would identify as extreme arrogance and behaviour that is more common to high school locker rooms than serious discussion.
[ 01 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Sorry Cueball, but I suddenly have the thought for a sketch comedy involving a discussion where everyone has to quote a passage from the person that preceeded them. Only then can they get to whatever point they have to make.

Anyway, I don't see any slight if quotes are left out. Unless a comment was said way earlier in the discussion, all one has to do is scroll up a post or two.


From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 01 November 2008 12:17 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
When we read each other's posts, maybe it would help to take a moment before hitting "add reply" and ask ourselves:

"Am I being triggered by this person's post?" . . .

"Is this slight something I can simply ignore instead of fighting? Am I picking my battles wisely?" . . .

This medium brings out the best AND the worst in us.



Wise words.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14629

posted 01 November 2008 12:17 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
double post

[ 01 November 2008: Message edited by: RevolutionPlease ]


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14629

posted 01 November 2008 12:18 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I apologize Cueball for opening my thread without thoroughly thinking it through.

Good points by many here.


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8013

posted 01 November 2008 01:54 PM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And with all that backbiting and noise polution, topp never got a chance to answer my legitimite question. Can the NDP bigwigs get their provincial NDP underlings to support and impliment pro rep as they win provincially?
To eventually help the federal NDP convert votes to seats a bit better.

From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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Babbler # 4881

posted 01 November 2008 03:06 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The notion that the provincial sections are "underlings" is on to which I take great offence, and is not at all consistent with party tradition or practice. The sections are autonomous. We have the right to disagree with the federal party, and the federal party has the right to disagree with us.

If advocates of proportional representation want to get provincial sections of the NDP onside they will have to do the heavy lifting themselves, not rely on the federal party to override what are often legitimate concerns with the impact of proportional representation. For instance: is proportional representation really called for in the context of Saskatchewan or Manitoba, provinces of near a million people?

I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but I don't see a groundswell of support for the issue from any of the traditional left caucuses in either province, including the trade unions, etc.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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Babbler # 214

posted 01 November 2008 03:10 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Here's what I'm seeing. There has been some major polarization building up over the course of weeks, or months, between babblers. It's always about history, not about what's actually happening in any particular thread.

As usual, though, it's the Babble People's Front to blame. We in the People's Front for Babble are the victims here.

Splitters.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 01 November 2008 03:11 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And on the other issue being spoken of: part of the reason I post here as little as I do now is precisely because the environment has become so hostile. There's just no damn need for it. Shockingly, NDP supporters will attempt to back the party's position. Just as shockingly, left critics of the party will critisize the party.

This is not life and death, people.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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Babbler # 214

posted 01 November 2008 03:22 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Then stop reading it as "life and death".

Have you ever spellunked on our evil twin's site? Someone posts half a thought, and it's a Greek chorus of "you're right," and the next one is "yeah, right on! you're right!!!!!!"

It's enough to make you puke.

There's no need for ad hominems, of course, but I rather like the parry and thrust.

Keeps one sharp.

As for the minutia of the ways we on the left find to divide, subdivide, nanodivide each other after a while, you have to sit back and giggle, really.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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Babbler # 4790

posted 01 November 2008 03:53 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionPlease:
I apologize Cueball for opening my thread without thoroughly thinking it through.

Good points by many here.


No need to appologize, you raised some important issues about consensus and alternatives that should be discussed.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 November 2008 04:15 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
I tend to think of it as people feeling entitled to take their grudge matches with them wherever they go and there does seem to be a lot of it around here lately. I always thought it was bad form to bring a grievance from one thread into another. But it's not at all unusual here to see a thread that starts out innocently enough suddenly become dominated by two (or sometimes more) people who square off and continue the same argument they've been having for days. Or weeks. Or months. Sometimes you'll see the same argument spread across three or four threads at the same time, as if people are literally chasing each other around the board.

It's so true. That's exactly what happens.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 November 2008 04:18 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
The notion that the provincial sections are "underlings" is on to which I take great offence, and is not at all consistent with party tradition or practice. The sections are autonomous. We have the right to disagree with the federal party, and the federal party has the right to disagree with us.

Yeah, but unfortunately, we don't have the right to belong to one and not the other when the provincial and federal policies might be vastly different.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
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Babbler # 838

posted 01 November 2008 04:32 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, good point. The NDP is a bit collectivist that way, sections have rights, but members don't.

Actually, if anything, the Federal party is at the mercy of the Provincial sections, since membership is determined by the Provincial sections.

A case in point was the inability of the Federal party to throw Bev Dejarlais out of the caucus.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 01 November 2008 05:05 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My feelings of relief on the early and efficient banning of something called QatzelOk prompts me to offer my humblest apologies for ever doubting the chief interlocutor.

Thank you.


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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Babbler # 2732

posted 01 November 2008 05:57 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The party does not allow a person to only belong to the federal wing. It is okay to only belong to the provincial parties but not the federal party alone. It is one of my pet peeves and has been for many years.

I look at political parties as places that attract control freaks just as day cares attract paedophiles. The same things happen in many unions but it also happens in many other volunteer organizations. The rule being if you do the work the other members let you do more and then if you are a control freak you suddenly have your fingers in every pie and are in the process of actively controlling the minutia of the organization. The NDP is an example but I think it is actually a very broadly based problem for most organizations.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 01 November 2008 06:57 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not true. A member of the provincial party is also a member of the federal party and vice versa.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 01 November 2008 08:15 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1weasel:

Sorry Cueball, but I suddenly have the thought for a sketch comedy involving a discussion where everyone has to quote a passage from the person that preceeded them. Only then can they get to whatever point they have to make.

Anyway, I don't see any slight if quotes are left out. Unless a comment was said way earlier in the discussion, all one has to do is scroll up a post or two.



Exactly my point. Wilf is only pretending not to be in dialogue with me. He merely uses certain devices to make it appeat that he is not: not quoting my content is one. Even though anyone parsing the conversation for content can clearly see that he is.

As a result it appears tha Wilf is talking around me, but about me at the same time, as if he can not directly confront what is being said.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 02 November 2008 01:54 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Returning this thread to its original intent:

quote:

But what does one feel from the sidelines?

Is there a bit of a vicarious thrill there too?




Having made my apology to the chief interlocutor, and hoping it has been accepted, I would hope that others involved can return to the serenity of their lives (until next time?)

Jeremiah George Victor


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 02 November 2008 01:06 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry George, your statement above stands.

Your apology was entirely misplaced since in no way did it relate to the topic you began here, which was "a bastard that can find pleasure in inflicting pain", "a fellow whose defense was specious, at best" in the face of "people who cannot be anything but honest in the strength of their convictions?"

The topic was not QatzelOk. ok.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 02 November 2008 01:45 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Posting deleted in the interest of solidarity and serenity.

Thanks again Wilf.

[ 02 November 2008: Message edited by: George Victor ]


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 02 November 2008 07:51 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me too. Thanks Wilf!
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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