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environmentalism has gone mainstream - kinda like hip-hop, only with less swearing. People have started to recognize that their decisions matter. Global environmental problems like climate change have finally entered the public conscious and people are hungry for solutions."

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It's an awfully short article, but it might start an interesting discussion.

What do you think? Is environmentalism mainstream, or is it still something championed by a fringe of society? No longer a movement, but part of our general philosophies and attitudes?

We're still demanding fresh, purely white super soft toilet paper and things wrapped and re-wrapped in plastic and styrofoam.

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I date the decline and fall (history moves a lot faster than it used to) of our civilization from the advent of bottled water.

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There is a certain laxity which has crept into the public's mindset regarding the environment.

So she placed my sandwich on a china plate and then filled a styrofoam container with fries to weigh them. She emptied the container onto my plate and threw it away.

[ 24 August 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]

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Originally posted by Tackaberry:
Even the battles some of us and the public thought were won, such as acid rain and hole in the ozone with the banning of CFCs turned out to be not true.

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I really try to think about where all of the stuff I buy and use and eat etc. comes from, and where the waste will go. I try to be conscious of my consumerism and my way of living so as to minimize my footprint and all that. But even still, I find that there are real obstacles to really living environmentally friendly-like. For example, the fact that the city of calgary doesn't recycle plastic containers. And on a smaller scale, just living with a roommmate who doesn't have the same perspective or values on this makes it hard. I often catch myself thinking, 'what the hell, she'd throw this down the garburator too, so why shouldn't I?' or similar justifications based on the seeming futility of it all.

Where I live, my neighbors are doing an amazing amount of environmently smart things. Another neighbor has ditched their old gas mower for a new push mower. I think that makes six converts on this street. A few are car pooling this summer to save money and make a long commute into the big city more enjoyable. Most, if not all, are recycling. Most are now purchasing some of their groceries from the local farmer market. One neighbor is considering going from a two car family to a one car family. I could go on and on.

WingNut: As for the goofy fry purchase by weight. Why didn't you explain to the girl she could put your plate + sandwich onto the scale, zero out the scale, and then weight the fries? Did you think about that at the time? Obviously she did not and I bet if it was explained to her she would change her evil ways.

[ 25 August 2004: Message edited by: scooter ]

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For example, the fact that the city of calgary doesn't recycle plastic containers.

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I should talk to our landlord about getting us a push-mower. I noticed my neighbor using one and I thought how much nicer a lawn-mowing experience it must be without all the noise and fumes etc. Maybe I can ask him to borrow it...there won't be many more mowings this year anyways!!

Who wants to brainstorm on simple, home remedies to over consumption and waste production? They always seem like such common sense when you hear it, but they're sometimes hard to think of on your own...

Like, if you order take out often, or go to a favourite deli for something etc., how about getting in the habit of bringing your own re-usable container for them to package the food into? As with that deli counter above, they can zero the scale on a tupperware as easily as on the styrofoam or whatever.

Or bringing your own cloth shopping bags to the grocery store. Some stores will even give you a little discount or just not charge you for bags if you bring your own.

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I'll have to just start talking more about my choices and explaining why and how important they are...

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Since discovering that they don't take plastic containers I've really tried to avoid buying stuff in them, but it can be difficult, and my roommate hasn't clued in to this at all. We've already got a bzillion tupperware containers too, so I can't even really keep them for re-use.

I should get some compost worms, though. Maybe that would keep her from putting stuff in the garbage disposal, and would reduce some of our garbage, at least. And I'm finally living in a place with a yard, so I'd be able to use the compost in the spring and summer.

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There's no curbside recycling in Calgary

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Residential weekly curbside pickup
Greenway recycling, tel. 263 9025
Recycle Plus of Calgary, tel. 230 1030
Residential Recycling, tel. 245 4451
BFI, 236 3883

Condos and apartments
Condo Recycling solutions, tel. 680 7557
Calgary Commercial Recycling, tel. 282 8801
BFI, 236 3883

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Yes there is! The yellow pages list the following:

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But they're private businesses, not public services. You need to pay for each pick-up.

[ 26 August 2004: Message edited by: 'lance ]

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I'm not sure what your point is Lance.

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Only that Calgary should finally catch up with other Canadian cities, and institute a proper recycling program. Edmonton, which has had curbside recycling since the mid-80s or something, would provide a splendid example.

Just after we moved here, my wife called up the City of Calgary recycling info line, such as it is. When she expressed surprise at the relative lack of publicly-operated recycling services, she was rather off-handedly told "oh, the City has three landfills available, each with about 50 years capacity remaining in them," or some such.

I'm not in any position to add to my monthly bills at the moment, so I don't know if I can make use of those private recyclers.

More likely is that I'll start lobbying the city to implement a curbside program like the one I mentioned above. In this day and age it's just ridiculous that any major city isn't already doing this. It would reduce land-fill loads, and create jobs, and also be good for the environment. I really don't understand why they're still not doing it.

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The point is, the City is showing little if any leadership in this.

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Why do you think private industry has stepped in? A couple of local curbside recylcing companies were started by people pissed off with the city's lack of leadership.

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I agree. So, what did you and your wife do?

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We were informed that curbside pickup of plastics wasn't available because we live in an apartment block on a very busy street.

So we carry paper, cardboard, cans and bottles to the local depot, which is fortunately not far away, and toss plastic in the garbage.

Oh, and bag up pop cans, beer cans etc. to take them -- via C-train -- to the nearest bottle/can depot. It's absolutely outrageous that in this province, the people who sell refundable cans and bottles aren't required to take them back for the deposit, as they are practically everywhere else I know of.

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A couple of local curbside recylcing companies were started by people pissed off with the city's lack of leadership.

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Or who simply saw a business opportunity. I heard some of them on local radio complaining that it was "unfair" that the city was contemplating an expanded recycling program.

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When the city brings in curbside recycling (the pilot program is on right now) the cost of it will be added to your property tax. One way or another city residents pay for it.

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I have no objection to the cost coming out of property taxes. I happen to believe this is something that can be done more efficiently by the public sector, and I don't believe for a second that the private sector, by itself, can really solve the problem of waste. What incentive would a private system have to reduce the amount of waste produced? The system would be dependent on the amounts staying the same, or even increasing.

[ 26 August 2004: Message edited by: 'lance ]

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What is the rate of recycling in Calgary?

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From the City of Calgary website:

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Approximately 85% of residential waste deposited at Calgary landfills could be collected for recycling. (27% paper, 24% yard waste, 20% food waste, 2% glass, 3% metal, 9% plastic)

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but

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The City of Calgary has a long-term goal to reduce the amount of waste going to landfills to just 20% and recycling or recovering 80%. Today, the numbers are the other way around: we landfill 80% and recycle 20%.

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and

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A record breaking 29,000 tonnes of material were collected at Calgary's 47 depots in 2003. This is an increase of 2,000 tonnes from the previous year.

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In 2003, 54.5 thousand tonnes of recyclable paper were deposited at Calgary's landfills. At an average price of $50/tonne, this resource is worth $2.7million.

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[ 26 August 2004: Message edited by: Loony Bin ]

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Originally posted by Loony Bin:
I should talk to our landlord about getting us a push-mower. I noticed my neighbor using one and I thought how much nicer a lawn-mowing experience it must be without all the noise and fumes etc.

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Edit:

Though it could be that I only ever used the old war-horses when I was 12 and younger.

[ 26 August 2004: Message edited by: 'lance ]

It seems to me that regardless what various environmental organizations do, or what trends take over or who gets bought out or what not, environmentalism as a concern or value system is alive and well, at least with a large number of people.

One problem today, like Rufus Polson outlines, is the sad fact that a lot of environmentalist language, culture and imagery, as well as many key organizations, have been co-opted by corporate capitalist forces that don't really care about the environment beyond their ability to use it as a cheap commodity (much like they use people).

In fact, as some have pointed out, much of the eco-friendly hype we have seen coming out of various industrial sectors has largely been high-sounding rhetoric accompanied by a few token changes to the ways they do things.

It's very easy to see how these corporate institutions react when faced with the challenge of having to make fundamental eco-friendly changes--just like we saw during the terms of the NDP government in BC.

The NDP government's initiatives, in most cases, brought serious hostility from corporate institutions, as they ran to the Liberals with huge amounts of money, both in the 1996 and 2001 elections.

Add to this, the corporatization of various environmental groups took its toll as well, such as Greenpeace wasting huge amounts of its resources on a bogus "Great Bear Rainforest" campaign, accusing the NDP of being a "lap dog of the forest industry." Meanwhile, the butcher tactics of the boreal forests in Alberta, or the destruction of water and farmland systems in Ontario, etc. went unnoticed. It figured it was a better fund-raising tactic to take on an easy target like the NDP, despite its progressive changes.

In addition, often these same corporate forces try to turn environmental concerns that challenge them into threats against their workers and communities. The immediate corporate response to an ecological concern is often with threats of lay-offs and closures if bosses are required to address it. This makes environmentalism appear dangerous in peoples' minds, at least on a given issue.

Furthermore, many environmental concerns have been expounded by groups that are anti-labour or anti-socialist (like some on this list) who clearly show disdain for workers, especially industrial types, or simply can’t communicate in a supportive manner. That gives corporations more power to demonize environmental concerns and more reason for resource workers to be suspicious.

Another really big stumbler is the fact that many environmental issues are heavily based on debates on environmental science. The activists often end up taking so far over people's heads, and there is so much seemingly credible yet conflicting information, people get confused, bored, annoyed or cynical very quickly.

But despite all this, I think actual concern over the health of the environment may actually be on the rise, even though it may not always be a priority for people (when yer paycheck is shrinking, yer rights are fading, yer health is worsening and yer kids will have less of a future than you did, it's hard).

Nonetheless, environmental values are moving closer to center stage for both the labour and cooperative business movements in this country overall.

Looking at the track record of union-sponsored or supported shareholder action and consumer pressure campaigns over the last fives years shows that environmental concerns rank as high as labour and human rights, consumer protection , etc. In fact, it is this type of action that has pushed corporate bosses to making various changes in their business practices more than anything else.

In addition, many labour unions are taking up the ecological cause due the their discovery in the past decade that it is in many ways closely related to workers' health and safety. This has gotten to the point where some environmental law activist groups (Sierra Legal, West coast environmental Law), are working on union-filed cases on these matters.

While the NDP has always had a strong pro-ecology philosophy, what I have noticed in the past few years is a growing or renewed interest in actually developing and implementing sustainable democratic economic reforms (a sort of rediscovery of the CCF mandate) with a key focus on maintain ecological integrity.

Mainstream means that it has been accepted by the dominant culture and is as common as, say, pop music. But that is not true.

Of all the environmental hazards facing the planet, litter, garbage and recycling is among the least. In fact, one of the primary reasons cities are becoming keen recyclers is due to the cost of landfill not the landfill itself.

However, on the issues that really matter, where people can make a difference, most people share your miserable and irresponsible attitude.

Subdivisions are popping up on arable land everywhere complete with the inherent increased use of fossil fuel for two or more vehicle households, home heating and cooling and the costs of roads and transportation (shared by all of us).

There is no real or determined effort to reduce single occupancy vehicle use, promote public and alternative tranist, and SUV's remain the top seller.

Product packaging remains obscene and people still flock to the stores to buy it.

And what you put in your lawn is everyone's business as those chemicals wind up in the air I breathe, the water I drink and the food I eat. If you want to poison yourself, be my guest. But keep your poison out of my air, water and soil.

[ 27 August 2004: Message edited by: WingNut ]

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Originally posted by Hailey:
I think that environmentalism is terribly mainstream ... Our neighbour has actually talked to me about it several times as he's a zealot - everything from what products I use on the lawn to the sorting of my garbage. Like this is his business how?

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Umm well, if ya really want to know...

The "Products" you use on the lawn are likely highly carcinogenic and slowly poisoning him as well as you. These things are banned in many cities where I live because they can cause cancer in children especially, not to metion slowly building up toxins in your body.

Since you plan to have children soon I strongly urge you to stop using pesticides/herbicides/fertilizers they can cause birth defects and children are especially susceptible.

Also, this is less direct but we all share this planet and how you sort your garbage has an effect on the biosphere we all share.

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Of all the environmental hazards facing the planet, litter, garbage and recycling is among the least. In fact, one of the primary reasons cities are becoming keen recyclers is due to the cost of landfill not the landfill itself.

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I would think if someone was an environmentalist even if the motives of the others weren't altruistic they'd be thankful for the outcome.

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Subdivisions are popping up on arable land everywhere complete with the inherent increased

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What do you suggest as an alternative please?

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There is no real or determined effort to reduce single occupancy vehicle use, promote public and alternative tranist, and SUV's remain the top seller.
soil.

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I suppose real and determined are subjective. Edmonton is making significant plans for LRT expansion and we have bus service throughtout edmonton and into the surrounding cities such as st. albert and sherwood park. At the university there is a shared drive program. That's how I got to and from university for four months last year when I was not able to take the bus (knee injury) and I didn't have a vehicle.

Our family has one vehicle which, I won't lie, I love. You'd think it was a child sometimes. But, we also cycle and skateboard but that's for fitness and leisure reasons not environmental philosophy.

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And what you put in your lawn is everyone's business as those chemicals wind up in the air I breathe, the water I drink and the food I eat. If you want to poison yourself, be my guest. But keep your poison out of my air, water and soil.

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The products I am using are legal.

[ 27 August 2004: Message edited by: Hailey ]

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It is just *so* not a priority for me.

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You plan to have kids, right? And do you hope that they'll have kids too, when they're older? And do you hope for these kids that they'll have grass to tumble on and trees to walk under and rivers to splash, lakes to fish from?

Or perhaps you hope that they'll have respiratory diseases and develop cancers and have birth defects.

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You plan to have kids, right? And do you hope that they'll have kids too, when they're older? And do you hope for these kids that they'll have grass to tumble on and trees to walk under and rivers to splash, lakes to fish from? How one cannot care about the environment is completely beyond me.

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I definitely plan to have children. Whether they choose to have children or not is up to them. I have no hopes around that.

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Subdivisions are popping up on arable land everywhere complete with the inherent increased
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What do you suggest as an alternative please?

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Increased infill development within existing boundaries. Portland, for example has eacted Urban Growth limits that preventy the city from growing beyond it's means (unlike, say,Edmonton). It's cheaper (infill developments don't require new services), better for taxpayers (I don't want to have to subsidize some suburban wanker'slawn and two-care garage), and better for the environment.

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I suppose real and determined are subjective. Edmonton is making significant plans for LRT expansion and we have bus service throughtout edmonton and into the surrounding cities such as st. albert and sherwood park. At the university there is a shared drive program. That's how I got to and from university for four months last year when I was not able to take the bus (knee injury) and I didn't have a vehicle.

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Edmonton's transist system is one of the worst in North America, while its suburb-friendly development plans effectively negates any benefit of the underfunded, underused ETS.

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The products I am using are legal.

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So are cigarettes. That doesn't mean they're good for you.

Toxic Roundup

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As with all mammals and aquatic organisms, glyphosate obviously affects humans. Humans do not normally suffer acute toxicity from glyphosate, however acute toxicity was first widely publicised by physicians in Japan who studied 56 cases of Roundup poisoning. Many of the cases were suicides. Symptoms showed in humans were gastrointestinal pain, vomiting, excess fluid in the lungs, pneumonia, clouding of consciousness and destruction of red blood cells. The mean calculated in these cases was more than 200 millilitres (about ? of a cup). It was believed that the surfactant in the product Roundup caused the toxicity. There were also similar symptoms found such as lung congestion or dysfunction, erosion of the gastrointestinal tract, abnormal electrocardiograms, massive gastrointestinal fluid loss, low blood pressure and kidney damage or failure. However, these are caused by larger amounts of Roundup.

Smaller amounts of Roundup or glyphosate-containing products also cause less lethal effects. Most incidents reported in humans have involved skin or eye irritation. These are general cases and are mainly confined to farmers or agricultural workers and especially manufacturers’ workers. Nausea and dizziness have also been reported after exposure. Swallowing the Roundup formulation caused mouth and throat irritation, vomiting, low blood pressure, pain in the abdomen, and reduced urine output. The amount swallowed was about 100 millilitres (about ? a cup).

The most important ways that people come in contact with glyphosate are through work place exposure, eating of contaminated food, exposure caused by off-target movement following application (drift), contact with contaminated soil and drinking or bathing in contaminated water.

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Originally posted by Loony Bin:
You plan to have kids, right? And do you hope that they'll have kids too, when they're older? And do you hope for these kids that they'll have grass to tumble on and trees to walk under and rivers to splash, lakes to fish from?

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In my experience, traditional, conservative christians are about the worst culprits when it comes to producing waste and pollution, and over-consuming. I guess maybe it's that they figure god is more real than the planet we live on, and that he gave them dominion over it anyways, so they might as well go ahead and completely rape, pillage and exploit it, since they won't have to reckon with it once the day of judgement arrives.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Haven't you heard? Jesus is going to rapture the true believers soon. No need to be environmentally conscious.

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Jesus is going to rapture the true believers soon.

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Honestly, I first read this as "Jesus is going to capture the true believers soon."

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I am one of the most environmentally UNfriendly people that you've probably ever met

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