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Topic: History quiz

Kindred
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3285

posted 04 March 2003 04:50 PM

Are You Qualified to Stand for Peace? This test is for your consideration. If you can pass it you are eligible to join the peace movement. This test consists of one (1) multiple-choice question (so you better get it right!)
Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II, compiled by historian William Blum:

China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Congo 1964
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991-99
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999

In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:
(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not a one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1

This quiz is compliments of Vietnam Veterans Against the War
Ben Chitty USN 65-9 VN 66-7 68 NY/VVAW peaceCENTER
P.O. Box 36, San Antonio, Texas 78291
(210) 224-HOPE or 224-4673 FAX (210) 222-1097

From: British Columbia | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

patrickwebber
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3284

posted 07 March 2003 07:58 AM

Only the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 resulted in a democratic government, in the sense that Belgrade rebelled against Milosevic after it was bombed.

Interestingly enough, when the U.S. bombed Guatemala in 1954, they were bombing a country with a democratically elected government that respected human rights. The problem for Washington was that it respected the rights of Guatemalan peasants over the rights of United Fruit.

From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 07 March 2003 01:48 PM

I don't understand the question fully: could you clarify it better.

quote:
In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Why do indirect results not count? Why doesn't a relative increase in human rights (or decrease in the amount of atrocities) over a previous government count?

Ei. Although Afghanistan is not completely free and democratic, it is closer now than under the Taleban.

Also simply because the bombing wasn't successful in regime change, does it mean that the regime was undeserving such as the multiple cases of Taleban, Iraq in '91 etc...?

[ 07 March 2003: Message edited by: Markbo ]

From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 07 March 2003 03:16 PM

quote:
Ei. Although Afghanistan is not completely free and democratic, it is closer now than under the Taleban.

Interesting question Markbo. What resulted from the bombing of Afghanistan was a transition from a repressive and authoritarian theocracy to a state of anarchy. Am I to take from your statement that you regard anarchy as a transitional step toward a freer and better society?

Why Markbo, you may have more in common with many people on this board than we had imagined!

From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

Barry Stagg
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3814

posted 07 March 2003 03:42 PM

Reality check: Backdate your polemical 'quiz' to 1941 and include the following- Germany and Japan.
Anyone for allying your "noble impotence" with the swastika twins? Apologies to Victor Hanson.

From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 07 March 2003 04:02 PM

2 out of 24 ain't bad. Hey, maybe it's a 50 year cycle? One year out of every half century the US flukes out and bombs a country into democracy.

Let's see, that would mean that at the turn of the century... Phillipines, Cuba, oops, so much for the 50 year cycle.

From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged

oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 07 March 2003 04:14 PM

I do note how "patient" they were on that particular war. Took'em nearly two years to join in. Actually Germany and Japan declared war on the U.S. I believe Kindred is justified in framing this as a post WWII historical phenominon.

Although now that I think of it, the USA wasn,t shy about sending the Marines into third world countries prior to WWII, ie: The Phillipines, Carribean + South American countries. Maybe you just need to extend your reality check back even farther. Unlike Iraq, everyone really knew that Germany and Japan had significant firepower. I guess they don't like going up agains countries that really do have guns.

From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

marty raw
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1137

posted 07 March 2003 06:53 PM

No, they didn't bomb Vietnam into democracy. Notably, almost thirty years after the war, Vietnam is not in the least democratic. They "ethnically cleansed" Vietnamese of Chinese origin, the Hanoi gov't going so far as to call them"parasites."

Laos & Cambodia were not bombed into democracy either. Nor Somalia, Haiti, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, etc,etc.

Interestingly, in countries like Germany, Hungary, Poland, even Russia itself - communism fell peacefully. A welcome change from 1956 and 1968 and 1980, where popular democratic movements were crushed under tank treads.

Now THAT'S how you impede democracy! Ask the Russians, the Koreans or even the Chinese - they'll tell you. It's MUCH more cost-efficent than bombs.

From: Toronto, baby | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

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