babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » rabble content   » babble book lounge   » A Fair Country, Telling Truths about Canada: John Ralston Saul

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: A Fair Country, Telling Truths about Canada: John Ralston Saul
hali
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15262

posted 21 September 2008 04:16 PM      Profile for hali     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/502756

Haroon Siddiqui

Unfulfilled nation torn from its aboriginal roots
Sep 21, 2008 04:30 AM

Re: John Ralston Saul, philosopher and prolific writer. He is the author of such groundbreaking bestsellers as The Collapse of Globalism (challenging prevailing economic orthodoxy) and Voltaire's Bastard: The Dictatorship of Reason (bemoaning the trumping of justice by reason).

His latest book is A Fair Country, Telling Truths about Canada (Viking), to be released, propitiously, as it turns out, in time for the Oct. 14 election.


"Canada is in trouble because it has been untethered from its aboriginal moorings."

"The central inspiration of our country is aboriginal ...
How we imagine ourselves, how we govern, how we live together, how we treat one another when we are not being stupid is deeply aboriginal ...

.......

This is so awesome. Thank you Jon Ralston Saul. You speak from the heart of Canadians.

We are three founding nations, Indigenous, French, British, in that chronological order. Our laws include Indigenous, French and British traditions.
Indigenous Peoples are, as Saul so rightly points out, "the senior founding pillar of our civilization."

Their 'say in development, and a share in revenues' is now quite simply TOO long overdue.

How wonderful that this book is coming out before the election. There is a real need to boost the public and campaign-related profile of Aboriginal rights issues, particularly our governments' failure to negotiate before developing, the cause of disturbing confrontations in several locations, and an immediate general concern right across the land.

It demands prompt legislated resolutions, imo, to properly and consistently implement the laws of Canada, to stop the need for confrontation, and re-orient our thinking.

The apology was nice ... but we need to take immediate action too, imo, to respect the ancestral rights of Indigenous Peoples of Canada.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
JaneyCanuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12682

posted 21 September 2008 06:15 PM      Profile for JaneyCanuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I suppose my Irish ancestry bristles when I see the word British but he is right abut the aboriginal nature of the country. Yes, the French and British did at times control our country but we are Canadians now - and should respect every ethnic group that has come here. As favourite saying goes, "We may have arrived in different ships but we are all in the same boat now" Alas, It is the SS Harper-Titanic with his arranging the deck chairs with tax credits for niche voters, all of them middle class and with nothing that marks true leadership!
From: Halifax, NS | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
hali
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15262

posted 21 September 2008 08:12 PM      Profile for hali     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JaneyCanuck:
I suppose my Irish ancestry bristles when I see the word British but he is right abut the aboriginal nature of the country. Yes, the French and British did at times control our country but we are Canadians now - and should respect every ethnic group that has come here. As favourite saying goes, "We may have arrived in different ships but we are all in the same boat now" Alas, It is the SS Harper-Titanic with his arranging the deck chairs with tax credits for niche voters, all of them middle class and with nothing that marks true leadership!

I think what he is pointing out clearly is that all of us ... "every ethnic group that has arrived here" ... have to learn to pay respect the rights of those who were here already before Canada existed, the Indigenous Peoples who are our allies and who helped us to found Canada.

[ 21 September 2008: Message edited by: hali ]


From: Hamilton | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
-=+=-
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7072

posted 22 September 2008 01:47 PM      Profile for -=+=-   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just reserved this at the VPL; it should be coming out in a few days.

When you think about that statement: if Canada is in trouble, it's because we've become unmoored from our aboriginal roots -- you might scoff. At a surface level it doesn't seem to be true. What has that got to do with driving to work every day?

But on a deeper level, when you think about it, it is true. Aboriginal civilization was and is communitarian, highly skilled and tough as nails. Things that were defining characteristics of Canada for a long time, and hopefully still are.


From: Turtle Island | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Al_Ar_Bee
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14918

posted 29 September 2008 01:30 PM      Profile for Al_Ar_Bee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The treatment of the people who where here first and our dismissal of their traditions have been the blind spot in our policy of multiculturalism. Why are we taking howitzers to Afghanistan under the pretense of humanitarian compulsions when we have a 400-year-old unpaid debt to our own First Nations that continues to compound daily. An apology in Parliament hardly makes amends for what has been done here. What is needed is the full restoration of the First Nations to the dignity of political equals in our society before we have the moral clarity to advise other nations on how to behave while we are holding the barrel of a gun at their head.
From: Vancouver, BC | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
fartherleft
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15657

posted 19 October 2008 07:30 AM      Profile for fartherleft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just picked up a copy of this book from the library the other day and have once again run into the same problem I have had with Mr. Saul's other books. The ideas and concepts are not the ideas and concepts that I, as a non-academic will come across in my everyday life and certainly not in my education which was technological. Once again I find myself beginning to grasp the concepts, and realize that I have to go back and start over to make sure I "get" all of it. This book ought to be required reading for every thinking Canadian, and most certainly every aspiring politician. It is a clear concise explanation of what we are and how we came to be.
With regard to the above comments, I agree, that the apology was "nice, but" to an extent. On the other hand I think that the apology, in its entirety clearly shows that our government does not understand what it is to be Canadian in the context of what John Ralston Saul is saying. The apology does not go far enough. It doesn't begin to address the problem nor does it show that we understand what the problem is. There clearly needs to be a rethink by Canadians about who and what we are. I agree with him that if we accept that there are three founding cultures at the base of our nation, then we can come to terms with ourselves.
As I have stated above, I have just begun to read this book and will be starting over. My grasp of the concepts are still not clear enough, but this book is clearly a really big light bulb that will illuminate the darker corners of our. understanding of this country.

From: Hamilton, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 19 October 2008 07:56 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have asked the library about providing A Fair Country and will check again today to see if it's on the way.

It should be available to the public in the valley of the Grand River, far as I can make out from the above postings.

Ronald Wright's What is America was booked ahead some months, so I picked up a copy. It is difficult to read - not for an academic bias, but as a tragedy of enormous dimensions . It underlines Saul's position, even if focused on the U.S. I'll post a peek in a couple of days.


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 24 October 2008 04:44 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In this startlingly original vision of Canada, thinker John Ralston Saul unveils 3 founding myths. Saul argues that the famous "peace, order, and good government" that supposedly defines Canada is a distortion of the country's true nature. Every single document before the BNA Act, he points out, used the phrase "peace, welfare, and good government," demonstrating that the well-being of its citizenry was paramount. He also argues that Canada is a Metis nation, heavily influenced and shaped by aboriginal ideas: egalitarianism, a proper balance between individual and group, and a penchant for negotiation over violence are all aboriginal values that Canada absorbed.

Aren't some of these values CCF values?

The Metis culture is a bit different than either Native or European cultures - a sort of hybrid. Negotiation would help one deal with both mom and dad.

Remember when Air Farce portrayed JRS as a hamster running around in his cage? I think Luba was Adrienne Clarkson.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 24 October 2008 05:58 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I ordered up A Fair Country, and I'm first in line when it arrives at the library. Looking forward to exchanging impressions.
From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
D V
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14611

posted 28 October 2008 03:12 PM      Profile for D V        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm about a 1/4 of the way through the book when I happen to find a thread on it among you!
Maybe some real discussion can ensue.

It is a very important book. But while it gives expression in its way to much I feel myself, I have nonetheless already encountered much problematic. Maybe I should read it through before saying more, although I could think of much to rebut or clarify or extend already.


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca