masjid me~ to shaikh ko khuroshaa~ dekhaa
maikhaane men josh-e baada-noshaa~ dekhaa
ik gosha-e aafiyat jahaa~ me~ ham ne
dekhaa to muhalla-e khamoshaa~ dekhaa

In the mosque I saw the sheikh inflamed,
I saw wine-drinkers raucous in the tavern.
One peaceful corner I saw in the world:
That was the quarter of the dead I saw.

(Mir Taqi Mir, d. 1810)

my suggestion was that we (meaning the two of us, i suppose) ought to begin each new shi`r with the first letter of the last word of the previous entry. this ought to provide a good variety. of course...you don't have to do this, i guess, but being a nerd, i will.

online access to two lexicographical classics, Steingass' Persian dictionary and Platts' Urdu dictionary, is available through the Digital South Asian Library.

so...it's "daal":

dil kii do ashk se na nikalii bhaRaas
oso~ bujhtii nahii~ hai pyaas kahii~

not by a few tears of the heart was ire subdued;
thirst is never quenched by drinking drops of dew.

(Mir Taqi Mir)

[ 26 March 2003: Message edited by: Mohamad Khan ]

kiyaa hai tuu ne mata'-e Guruur kaa saudaa
fireb-e suud-o ziyaa~ laa ilaaha illa 'llaah

(Iqbal)

The first line has a pun, so I'll translate it a little later, tonight.

... but maybe I should choose one that won't seem as polemical in context...

kis kaa ka'ba, kaisaa qibla, kaun haram hai, kyaa ehraam
kuuce ke us ke baashindo~ ne sab ko yahii~ se salaam kiyaa

In the mosque I saw the sheikh inflamed,
I saw wine-drinkers raucous in the tavern.
One peaceful corner I saw in the world:
That was the quarter of the dead I saw.

Three positions present itself here and I gotta admit, the second one sounds mighty fine in comparison to the other two. While I'm not sure of the point (literary analysis was always slightly beyond me), equating peacefulness with death is a little bit more than I'd argue.

Why can't life be a little raucous, edgy or disagreeable?

I readily admit I might be missing the point, but no-one ever seriously claimed to me that being quite, submissive (and less of a wine drinker!) serves the greater good.

No Sanskrit reader am I,
if I miss the point,
I'll understand the non-response and why.

okay...so i guess i have a choice between Iqbal's "alif" and Mir's "kaaf". i'll take the former. it isn't from Baal-i-jibriil, is it? i'm interested to see how you might translate it; not so simple. anyway, Iqbal is generally polemical. you just have to grin and bear it.

ab tak dil-i-khush fahm ko hai~ tujh se umiide~
yih aakhrii sham`e~ bhii bujhaane ke liye aa

even now, this knowing heart has hopes of you;
come, if only to extinguish these last candles.

(Ahmad Faraaz)

[ 26 March 2003: Message edited by: Mohamad Khan ]

quote:

---

I love this thread.

---

as do i.

but too few players...*sob*

ik `umr se huu~ lazzat-i-girya se bhii mahruum
ai raahat-i-jaa~ mujhko rulaane ke liye aa

all my life i've been denied the taste of tears;
come, comfort of my soul, if but to make me cry.

Rumi & Iqbal had in common is living through mad political crisis. For Rumi it was the oncoming Mongol hordes. Iqbal's crisis was different and he captures it in the two lines,

IT IS TIME THAT I REOPEN THE TAVERN OF RUMI:
THE SHEIKS OF THE KAABA ARE LYING DRUNK IN
THE COURTYARD OF THE CHURCH

had chaheeye sazaa-me,
uqubat ke wastay,
aakhir gunahgaar hu,
kaafir nahee hu may.

Any sentence [penalty] must come with a limit,
????
I admit that I AM a sinner,
yet certainly not a kafir (an unbeliever)

*can anyone help with the translation of the 2nd line?

good to see you on the board, man...i don't think rasmus_raven is going to continue this, though. busy bird, you know.

i guess i could post baits and you could hang around saying things like "wah!" and "bahut khuub!" ought to check out some of the other stuff too, though. some good debates going on.

as for the verses, my guess is this is what they are:

hadd caahiye sazaa me~ `uquubat ke waaste
aakhir gunaahgaar huu~ kaafir nahii~ huu~ mai~

Zehra and i are puzzling over this; `uquubat means about the same thing as sazaa. i suppose it's just repetition....

what are the opening lines of the ghazal?

[ 04 April 2003: Message edited by: Mohamad Khan ]