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Originally posted by Zak Young:
Probably the biggest tragedy of the latter half of the 20th century. A completely unnecessary war (like virtually every war), and the primary reason why I think LBJ is worse than Bush.

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Why do you think it was a tragedy, and for whom?

I think the Iraq war is slightly less evil, because of scale. Depending on the estimates, there have been between 100,000 - 1,000,000 civilians murdered in the Iraq war, and substantially less in the Afghanistan conflict. It is evil, yes; an undeclared, unjustified pre-emptive war; but it is my opinion that shooting one person is less evil than shooting a dozen.

I do not see much difference between Bush or LBJ. On the domestic side they both believed in government spending. Johnson brought us (or America, I suppose) 'The Great Society' and Bush brought us no child left behind / the prescription med bill. The size of the federal government - both non defense and defense spending - has grown at a more massive rate than under any president. While it is true this is primarily Congress' burden to bear, the president obviously has tremendous impact.

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Originally posted by Farmpunk:
When did we started interrogating newbies?

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"What happened to Vietnam and Cambodia was a crime against humanity perpetrated by the US capitalists that you trust to run the world."

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Originally posted by Zak Young:
It is the state, that you seek to make omnipotent through incessantly increasing it's size, that waged that war. Capitalism is not to blame, statism is the culprit.

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Regarding Miliband here is his take on Marx's view of the state (PDF); personally I don't think that much of it but an anarcho-capitalist might enjoy it.

[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Opps I mean CSIS has infiltrated babble.

[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]

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Originally posted by Zak Young:
"What are you chaps talking about? All one needs to do is look at the highly successful anarcho-capitalist non-states in history to know that the scribblings of Lenin & Co. can be dismissed with the wave of a hand."

Your sarcasm aside, there are two relatively successful examples of anarcho-capitalism, the not-so-wild (american) west and iceland during the middle ages.

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"Indian Wars is the name generally used in the United States to describe a series of conflicts between the colonial or federal government and the indigenous peoples of North America.

That "successful example anarcho-capitalism" of the "not so wild west" only existed because of the government. It was gub'mint soldiers clearing the land of the indigenous inhabitants that allowed the west to be opened in the first place. It was the government's guarantees of private property that allowed some well-connected people to make a bundle.

Terrorists like Rockefeller, Hearst, and Morgan only became extremely wealthy because they could count on the backing of the Federal government in both law and use of force.

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In 1864, one of the more infamous Indian War battles took place, the Sand Creek Massacre. A locally raised militia attacked a village of Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians in southeast Colorado and killed and mutilated an estimated 150 men, women, and children. The Indians at Sand Creek had been assured by the U.S. Government that they would be safe in the territory they were occupying, but anti-Indian sentiments by white settlers were running high.

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