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Author Topic: Who here is among the Right and Libertarians?
Dave Boaz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3694

posted 04 March 2003 11:15 PM      Profile for Dave Boaz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Audra and other administators, I hope this post does not offend your sensibilities. Other posters, I hope you will allow this post to accomplish what it is meant to.

Who here is among the Right?
Who here is among the Libertarian?
How do you qualify your association (Registered Republican, Conservative on foreign issues, Libertarian on domestic issues, etc.)?

I am curious about with whom I speak(and debate) from these boards.
I ask for only two particular political associations because I would assume they are a minority on this board and thus the thread will be that much smaller.


From: Washington DC | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 04 March 2003 11:42 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe they don't even exist?
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dave Boaz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3694

posted 05 March 2003 02:06 AM      Profile for Dave Boaz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
clersal, a man can dream can't he?
From: Washington DC | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 05 March 2003 09:44 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am a civil libertarian.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2836

posted 05 March 2003 10:16 AM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I am curious about with whom I speak(and debate) from these boards.

Feh. Then why do the questions ask who it is who seems to be like you?


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3148

posted 05 March 2003 11:11 AM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't like to label myself (love to label others, however ), but I would consider myself well to the right of most other Rabblers, but probably to the left of Joe and Mary Sixpack. Why am I here? Because it's not all that interesting discussing things with those who agree wholeheartedly with everything you say. I also enjoy the respectful 'atmosphere' here. If someone disagrees with you here, they will attack the argument, not the person.
From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 05 March 2003 11:15 AM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mostly.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 05 March 2003 11:45 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We are polite and smart too.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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Babbler # 2170

posted 05 March 2003 12:44 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And minty fresh.
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 05 March 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And cute, too!

I guess, with skdadl, I'm a civil libertarian. Which I guess puts me with the Left and Libertarians. I'd say that put me with Orwell, except that everyone claims Orwell, while he disclaimed pretty much everyone at one point or another.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 March 2003 01:14 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me three, although I'm sure someone could come up with an example or two where I waver. I can't think of any myself, but as soon as I say, "Yes, this is my rock-firm position!" someone usually comes along and shakes it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2836

posted 05 March 2003 02:04 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've met a few "civil" Libertarians in my time. Not many of them seem to come *here* though.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1425

posted 05 March 2003 05:02 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My experience has been that "civil libertarian" is an oxymoron .
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 05 March 2003 05:18 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So we all have, what? 6 categories to choose from? I'd be ashamed if I exactly fit any of them.

I took the Political Compass test though, and was right beside Gandhi. Does that help?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 05 March 2003 06:13 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gandhi had his arm around me. Is that helpful?
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Zatamon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1394

posted 05 March 2003 06:22 PM      Profile for Zatamon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, clersal, for a second I thought that you had actually met Gandhi.
From: where hope for 'hope' is contemplated | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 05 March 2003 06:48 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gotcha.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
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posted 05 March 2003 07:31 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We need to distinguish between civil libertarian and economiclibertarian. I most of us here are in favour of civil liberties, ie. the right of individuals to make their own decisions about their personal lives and private beliefs.

The plain term "libertarian" normally includes individual economic rights as well, ie. unrestrained capitalism and little or no taxation. Libertarianism is very close to anarchism.

See the diagram included with theworld's smallest political quiz for more info.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 05 March 2003 10:57 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Libertarianism is very close to anarchism.

Don't think so. Libertarians greatest concern is that the state will redistribute property; their entire doctrine is calculated with this in mind.

Anarchists believe in a much more egalitarian world than the status quo. If anything, libertarians want greater inequality, which they will claim is due to "merit". In their doctrine, "merit" is defined as "inherited wealth".


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 05 March 2003 11:48 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For those who may be unsure of their own particular label, or find the choices too confining, I offer the following
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2256

posted 05 March 2003 11:52 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Libertarians want the minimum government possible. Anarchists want the same thing, except that they believe that the minimum is none at all.

Both libertarians and anarchists may have deluded themselves to varying degrees about how utopian or egalitarian such a society might be, but those are individual differences, not characteristics of their respective philosophies. The libertarians I know believe in minimal government as an end in itself, with individual freedom from government interference as a basic birthright of all people. I don't know any anarchists but I think their rationale is similar.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
sistersanta
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Babbler # 3038

posted 06 March 2003 12:55 AM      Profile for sistersanta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the link old goat. Interesting stuff.

quote:
ANARCHISTS... have a hatred for oppression and authority, the groups are principally a First World phenomenon and have never won a revolution or created any transformation even a half as good as in Mao's China, not even 5% as good for that matter.

Ouch!!


From: Montreal | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 569

posted 06 March 2003 01:03 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...well, we don't have anywhere to go but up, then. As opposed to the Maoists, who are something like the SCA of political movements, IMO.

[ 06 March 2003: Message edited by: verbatim ]


From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 06 March 2003 01:48 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wanna be a Hoxhaite. I think that silent majority who still carry the flame of the late Enver Hoxha will rise again and will be seen at booths of NDP conferences everywhere.

hmmm...I can't find an Enver Hoxha smilie.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
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posted 06 March 2003 03:24 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't Enver personally strangle his second in command at a cabinet meeting one day?


Back when I was a child short-wave radio enthusiast I used to listen to Radio Tirana from time to time. They were a real hoot (I even sent them a postcard and they sent me back a pamphlet on Albania - I still have it somewhere)- a typical newscast would denounce the US, the Soviet Union, China and Yugoslavia all in the same broadcast! Real inconoclasts.

[ 06 March 2003: Message edited by: Mycroft ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 07 March 2003 01:15 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Man, I'd love to see transcripts of that just for the humor value.

Hoxha strangling one of his ministers sounds a bit Godfather-ish if you ask me.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 09 March 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When there's a kerfuffle in parliament, Hansard will often write it up as...

Some Honourable Members: Oh oh!

I would imagine Hoxhas meeting minutes went something like that.

edited to rearrange the f's in kerfuffle. still doesn't look right.

[ 09 March 2003: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 09 March 2003 01:26 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I wanna be a Hoxhaite. I think that silent majority who still carry the flame of the late Enver Hoxha will rise again and will be seen at booths of NDP conferences everywhere.

I used to live around the corner from the headquarters, or politburo, or whatever, of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist), which was on Ossington at College. It doubled as their bookstore. I was vaguely curious about what they were about -- until, that is, I stopped one day and examined the titles they had for sale.

All very cheaply-printed paperbacks, covers in the kind of institutional grey and green that took me back to the walls of my old elementary school, all unadorned except for titles in tiny type about the glories of Albania and the brilliance of Comrade Hoxha's thought, and maybe a hammer and sickle here and there. And all about as dusty and down-at-heels as the little shop they were displayed in.

In retrospect, I guess I decided against Marxism-Leninism, in the first instance, on esthetic grounds.

Back in Toronto this last Christmas, we walked by this very building. The CPC-ML was long gone, and the businesses in the building looked halfway prosperous. For once I was almost glad to see a bit of gentrification, particularly as the nearby corner store I used to shop at -- sixteen years before -- was still there and still apparently going strong.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 09 March 2003 04:01 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On the political compass, I am in the libertarian right (closest to Milton Friedman, but less extreme).

I generally consider myself to be fiscally conservative, but socially progressive.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Yarrow
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3871

posted 14 March 2003 02:07 AM      Profile for Yarrow        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am an anarchist. I would happily work with Libertarians. I read Marx, Gramsci, Chomsky and even Bakunin -- I try not to get upset when the Left or democratically natured people forget history and start saying silly things about who has or has not won a revolution, or talk as if Social Democrats and Communists haven't deluded themselves in the past. Could we get on with the work of working together?

I vote NDP and I include NDP members among my closest confidantes and most admired politicians. I am thinking of voting PC next federal election in David Orchard is the new leader.
Oh and read Thompson Highway, Edward Said, bell hooks and Henry David Thoreau. My views are based on ethics and social justice and my observations on the violence of corporate capitalism.

Why do people trash each other as soon as they get on these forums. Sorry I am new and find the tone worrying at times.


From: Aldergrove, B.C. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 14 March 2003 02:18 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why do people trash each other as soon as they get on these forums. Sorry I am new and find the tone worrying at times.

We're actually quite mild by most web-board standards. If you want some no-holds-barred, knock-down, drag-out battle royales head over to the alt.* newsgroups on Usenet or the unmoderated forums that are out there.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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