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Author
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Topic: Getting amateur science researched and validated?
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TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681
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posted 01 November 2008 02:13 PM
quote:
I made something which I call the pulser pump just over 20 years ago. It is a stream driven water pump that has no moving parts and it worked.
That sounds really useful . I'm no science whiz but does that mean that someone could use it to access water say, if a well was sunk? How would it work in that sort of practical environment?
quote:
This year I made some indirect drive solar trackers, (That were put on the recent news page on solarcooking.org)
and a new type of "compound" parabolic reflector for solar cookers.
I like practical. So, this would mean that I could cook safely [what about baking?] without the need for gas, wood, electricity or other forms of energy? Could it be used as a heat source as well? quote:
How can the gap be bridged? I have been butting my head against this invisible barrier for years.
You sound like a survivalists, squatters, green people who live in alternative styles, DREAM inventor. Keep trying to get it out there. The very idea of a safe stove [also could help with heating] with a free energy source opens up worlds of possibilities for people who live in places where gas/oil/electricity aren't available or are prohibitively expensive.
From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008
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TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681
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posted 01 November 2008 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Brian White:
I have the videos on utube. Mine was a serious post about a problem in science.
Funds for research are directed by whom exactly?
Even environmental organizations do NOT do research on alterative energy. They think it all has been done before.
It hasn't!
Even now, with the world falling apart, nobody has the time to check this out.
Who works on alternative energy?
It is just big companys working on high tech stuff. And all the money gets funneled to them.
On an engineering forum a guy calculated that one of my cheap experimental solar cookers would pay for itself in 50 meals while a solar panel system would pay for itself in 70 years!
But people's eyes glaze over when they talk about solar electricity.
Why is this? When it is totally uneconomical?
Your post makes the same presumptions I made when I started putting my videos online. Over 100,000 views later, I do not see much progress.
There is a mental block in science research which prevents stuff like the pulser pump from being researched.
Okay, let's "do over" [start again] because I think I misunderstood something here. So, what you're trying to put across is that these big companies come up with impractical expensive inventions while sensible sorts of devices get left behind because they are not coming out of the big companys' favorite think tanks? Therefore, the devices individual creators design don't get "built upon" because the funding to do so, is not forthcoming? I understand a bit, because my father was ripped off for a couple of his designs and he had some other inventions in our house that saved a LOT of money/energy and were kind of brilliant, really. Can you give me your YouTube site? I'd really love to look at them. The solar cooker sounds particularly interesting! [I'm not bad mechanically but I'm scientifically clueless  ]
From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008
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Brian White
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8013
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posted 02 November 2008 12:20 PM
Nope, I am saying that very basic low tech stuff and appropriate tech stuff is not being researched by anyone.
If you check the internet and librarys, there is nothing else as simple or as cheap material wise as the pulser pump to pump water anywhere. And now it is 20 years old already.
I invented the "mechanical mathematician" as a way to make low tech parabolic dishes in dirt poor countrys. It could never had happened if I thought everything has been done already, or if I had not identified the problem.
But there is no replication of my work.
I have made a new type of compound parabolic solar cooker in september but again the problem, no replication, no study to see if it is effective or not. If it does not get endorsed or tested by someone in "real" science or real engineering, it is dead in the water.
The NGO's will not even try stuff that has not been approved by the big boys! Engineers without borders are a case in point. You cannot argue with these people either.
These are supposed to be open minded solutions orientated people. Nope
They have a million excuses to sit on their hands. And these are the very people with cad experience and probably able to use software to test and improve the designs.
The very people who would be looking for a novel project for their exams. But they have not looked at the pulser pump in 20 years. The solar stuff is more recent but I see the same problem arising.
This is not just about me. This is a big problem in science research that needs to be fixed. quote:
Originally posted by TVParkdale:
Okay, let's "do over" [start again] because I think I misunderstood something here. So, what you're trying to put across is that these big companies come up with impractical expensive inventions while sensible sorts of devices get left behind because they are not coming out of the big companys' favorite think tanks? Therefore, the devices individual creators design don't get "built upon" because the funding to do so, is not forthcoming? I understand a bit, because my father was ripped off for a couple of his designs and he had some other inventions in our house that saved a LOT of money/energy and were kind of brilliant, really. Can you give me your YouTube site? I'd really love to look at them. The solar cooker sounds particularly interesting! [I'm not bad mechanically but I'm scientifically clueless ]
From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005
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TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681
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posted 02 November 2008 02:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Brian White:
Nope, I am saying that very basic low tech stuff and appropriate tech stuff is not being researched by anyone.
If you check the internet and librarys, there is nothing else as simple or as cheap material wise as the pulser pump to pump water anywhere. And now it is 20 years old already.
I invented the "mechanical mathematician" as a way to make low tech parabolic dishes in dirt poor countrys. It could never had happened if I thought everything has been done already, or if I had not identified the problem.
But there is no replication of my work.
I have made a new type of compound parabolic solar cooker in september but again the problem, no replication, no study to see if it is effective or not. If it does not get endorsed or tested by someone in "real" science or real engineering, it is dead in the water.
The NGO's will not even try stuff that has not been approved by the big boys! Engineers without borders are a case in point. You cannot argue with these people either.
These are supposed to be open minded solutions orientated people. Nope
They have a million excuses to sit on their hands. And these are the very people with cad experience and probably able to use software to test and improve the designs.
The very people who would be looking for a novel project for their exams. But they have not looked at the pulser pump in 20 years. The solar stuff is more recent but I see the same problem arising.
This is not just about me. This is a big problem in science research that needs to be fixed.
I can see that as a serious problem. It is in fact, the problem with all systems since after a short while they exist only to perpetrate themselves, not to serve their original function. Sounds similar to the same eejits who came up with the design for refugee housing in the middle east, then dropped a bunch of them on squatters in Canada in the middle of winter to test them. These houses could not be safely heated in any way and in fact, were renowned for being cool in hot countries. Hello? -25F anyone? I'm not looking for a novel project but I do like to look for elegant, inexpensive designs that might benefit those who are creative but have little ready cash. And I believe you are correct. The simplest, most effective solutions are often overlooked by "the establishment". I looked up some of the solar cooking stuff on YouTube.
From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008
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Noise
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12603
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posted 07 November 2008 10:54 AM
Brian: quote:
I have made a new type of compound parabolic solar cooker in september but again the problem, no replication, no study to see if it is effective or not. If it does not get endorsed or tested by someone in "real" science or real engineering, it is dead in the water.
The NGO's will not even try stuff that has not been approved by the big boys! Engineers without borders are a case in point. You cannot argue with these people either.
These are supposed to be open minded solutions orientated people.... This is not just about me. This is a big problem in science research that needs to be fixed.
The wall you're hitting up against isn't entirely science related, it's all money. Science isn't worth shit until you can package it up and sell it at a tidy enough profit to make the research worthwhile. Therefore any targetted research with aims like yours here ("Like making a parabolic dish except you can use easily obtainable sheet material to make it.") can't readily be sold, therefore has little profit to be made, if any.
quote:
Nope
They have a million excuses to sit on their hands. And these are the very people with cad experience and probably able to use software to test and improve the designs.
Software costs money and so does the engineers time (Especially if the engineer spends most of their time reading rabble)... Unless there is a way of recouping the cash invested, I can't see anyone readily doing so.
So what I think you need to do here Brian is figure out your intent with any of this information you're presenting. Free information showing people how to obtain material and build for themselves... Or introductory science that can be expanded upon... Or something to be patented and one day produced and sold... And so on. Once you've got this intent figured out, you can start to hash out how you want to get there. If it's easy enough to create, have you considered creating and selling a few?
[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: Noise ]
From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006
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Brian White
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8013
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posted 07 November 2008 04:30 PM
Thanks for your input, you make very good points.
I spread the stuff over the internet and I hope that some chineese manefacturer perhaps, will grab the ideas and start stamping out compound parabolic dishes by the hundred thousand. Like they do thin aluminium cooking sheets and cake dishes. Sell for $30 and a tidy profit and the user recoups the cost in a month in fuel savings!
Or sell for $150 incl the pot and cooking thermometer and make a tidier profit.
I am trying to spark something and if nothing else change the direction of much amateur science.
(Parabolic powerful but not good for cooking, compound parabolic way better for cooking!
Years ago I worked as a lower down in funded research and it is mind blowingly boring!
You CANNOT deviate off the set course even if preliminary results show that your research will not have economic value!
A lot of software is free, blender for animation, and pov-ray for ray tracing but I do not know how to use them. And I believe lots of people can be brought on board this open source devellopment thing. They already devellop this software for free. Why not use it for free to solve real world problems for the poorest people on earth?
I have succeeded in getting someone to do animation software of solar on the web.(a guy in france)
I am a member of an amateur science collobaration site called instructables. (Their founder just got a big award for conceving the idea). But even there, there was initial strong resistance to the "mechanical mathematician" and nobody has yet independently made one and put it on the web.
People only will be led by known proven stuff even there!
It is as if the science they thought us in schools was everything, set in stone and some new discovery or different design (that obeys the rules of physics)(like the mathematician) is somehow wrong because it is not in the textbooks. I got that with the pulser pump years ago too. They would cry that it is not in the holy science texts so it cannot be true!
Even now with ecovillages in most countrys, and intentional environmentalist communitys all over the world, you do not find their science matches up to what it could be.
Seriously, I have made more discoverys in my back yard than the world famous www.cat.org.uk/ center has. They just take hand me down science from elsewhere and distribute it to the masses. They are not willing to try anything novel. Same with sazukki foundation. They do NOT do research. They collect money and then they just distribute what boffins release to them.
I think this is a wrong headed approach that limits people severely. Some seriously smart people work for these organisations but it is as if their hands are tied as they work.
Brian
quote:
Originally posted by Noise:
Brian:
Software costs money and so does the engineers time (Especially if the engineer spends most of their time reading rabble)... Unless there is a way of recouping the cash invested, I can't see anyone readily doing so.
So what I think you need to do here Brian is figure out your intent with any of this information you're presenting. Free information showing people how to obtain material and build for themselves... Or introductory science that can be expanded upon... Or something to be patented and one day produced and sold... And so on. Once you've got this intent figured out, you can start to hash out how you want to get there. If it's easy enough to create, have you considered creating and selling a few?
[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: Noise ]
From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005
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