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Author Topic: save a childs heart
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 23 July 2003 02:07 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

A Palestinian Family
Translation of a parents' thank you letter ( from Arabic)
May 2001
To Dr. Amram J. Cohen
The E. Wolfson Medical Center
Department of Cardiovascular Surgery
I have no words to express our appreciation for the wonderful assistance you have given my son. I wish you all the best and success in helping other children.
Best regards,


testament of a Palestinian father
why, why, why is it when the BBC is invited to come and do a report on such a beautiful humanitarian relief effort the dedicated the majority of it to the Check points and security crossing rather then the action of humanitarian relief by the Israeli doctors themselves Israeli doctor who not only save lives but also try and educate and provide infrastructure so that even more lives can be saved. Why is that the world chooses to criticize and scrutinize rather then encourage positive initiatives such as these?

This is the big bad Israel every body thinks is so horrible. Take a closer look at who you are fighting.
statistics
Mission

Homepage


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Babbler # 3804

posted 23 July 2003 03:56 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would not be so quick to forget the distinction between criticism of state policy and individual efforts.
From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 23 July 2003 09:21 AM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This would not be possible with out state cooperation. This is hardly an individual efforts I can bring list of 10's of Israeli or Jewish humanitarian relief organizations that not only help Jews but operate around the Globe helping all people's including the Palestinians. Even the IDF's home front command has been involved in humanitarian in many humanitarian relief efforts across the Globe from turkey to Mexico to Palestine and lets not forget the Red star of David which is Israel main ambulance and paramedic service it too has operated globally in humanitarian relief efforts.

"Yeah it is not state policy right"

I simply choose this one because of the extent and the uniqueness and the delicacy of this operation but I can bring many more. This just goes to show how far Israeli's not only individuals will got to helping others across the globe including Palestinians.

If I was arrogant I could ask what have the Palestinians have done to contribute to society but that doesn't matter I'd be personally content if they could take care of themselves rather then focusing on fighting the Israeli's. Israel is not too blame for all their problems maybe some but I doubt if its majority.

[ 23 July 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595

posted 23 July 2003 11:35 AM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If I was arrogant I could ask what have the Palestinians have done to contribute to society but that doesn't matter I'd be personally content if they could take care of themselves rather then focusing on fighting the Israeli's. Israel is not too blame for all their problems maybe some but I doubt if its majority.

If you were arrogant you could ask? You in fact did ask. And it isn't arrogance, it's bigoted and rasict to ask that question. You ask what they have done to contribute to whose society again? Just so I am clear? You mean their oppressors society? the one they aren't allowed to really be apart of? The one that displaced them and sends the IDF in to instill fear in them?

You should be ashamed of your comment. You should also retract it.

[ 23 July 2003: Message edited by: Scout ]


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3830

posted 23 July 2003 12:38 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

If you were arrogant you could ask? You in fact did ask. And it isn't arrogance, it's bigoted and rasict to ask that question. You ask what they have done to contribute to whose society again? Just so I am clear? You mean their oppressors society? the one they aren't allowed to really be apart of? The one that displaced them and sends the IDF in to instill fear in them?

You should be ashamed of your comment. You should also retract it.

[ 23 July 2003: Message edited by: Scout ]


Absolutely shameful Justice!!

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blind_Patriot
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3830

posted 23 July 2003 12:51 PM      Profile for Blind_Patriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
BTW Justice, while your rolling in your sea of bigotry, think about the Palestinian organisations run by Priests and Sheiks, that had their funding cut off by the U.S. after September 2001. These organisations help many of the poor and unfortunate (those filthy church & mosque going arabs) and are not able to do so anymore.
quote:
This is the big bad Israel every body thinks is so horrible. Take a closer look at who you are fighting
Is this a publicity war? Being big bad Israel is better than being Terrorist Palestinian, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanastan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc... get my drift. U.S. has become suckers for Israel, so I wouldn't worry about Israel's image in light of the U.S. After all that's all that matters right? The cooperation between the 2 states to deal with this "arab problem" is reaching frightening stages. Keep killing Arabs and cater to the anti-Arabism that is skyrocking in the U.S.

Big bad Israel?? Obviously not big bad enoungh in the Americans eyes!


From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 23 July 2003 01:30 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:

testament of a Palestinian father
why, why, why is it when the BBC is invited to come and do a report on such a beautiful humanitarian relief effort the dedicated the majority of it to the Check points and security crossing rather then the action of humanitarian relief by the Israeli doctors themselves Israeli doctor who not only save lives but also try and educate and provide infrastructure so that even more lives can be saved. Why is that the world chooses to criticize and scrutinize rather then encourage positive initiatives such as these?

This is the big bad Israel every body thinks is so horrible. Take a closer look at who you are fighting.
statistics
Mission

Homepage


Counterpoint. It's all a matter of perspective:

Human Rights Group Blasts Israeli Soldiers

In other words, one small sample, such as yours Justice, does not make a case...


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 23 July 2003 01:47 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:

If I was arrogant I could ask what have the Palestinians have done to contribute to society but that doesn't matter I'd be personally content if they could take care of themselves rather then focusing on fighting the Israeli's. Israel is not too blame for all their problems maybe some but I doubt if its majority.



Whisper Offstage Psssst...Justice, you forgot your 'fair and evenhanded' mask in the Green Room. We can all see your real face....


I see, and fighting the Israelis who have ethnically cleansed them from their homes in 1948, occupied their land illegally, humiliated them, bulldozed their homes, stolen their water, kept them under curfew, exploited their labour, and deliberately destroyed their civic institutions, is not 'taking care of themselves'.


If nothing else, Sharon's slash and burn tactics in the past 2 years demonstrate that he in no way wants the Palestinians 'taking care of themselves'. That is why his forces have targetted civic institutions: hospitals, police forces, public records, schools, and the economy. Still further, Sharon's tactics are part and parcel of a long-standing policy of the Israeli government to ensure that no viable Palestinian nationalism can be institutionalised in a secure, sovereign Palestinian state. All offers of 'statehood' have been condition so that the Palestinian state would not have full control over basic infrastructure, such as borders, airspace, water and power supply, contigious territory, imports and exports, etc. This policy has had both an ideological and propagandic prong involving the control of Palestinian images and narratives, as well as a hands-on military approach which involves direct control of Palestinian movement, economy, and property.

But wait, it's all the 'Arabs' fault. They 'made us do it'...

Moreover, it's nice to see you pull out the old racist characterisation of all Palestinians as genocidal, violent, Jew haters. Though, when necessary to criticise some here for their 'extremism' you like to prattle on about how moderate Palestinians really are compared to us "filthy racists" who support, for instance, the Right of Return. The perfidy and opportunism evident in this series of contradictory arguments is astounding. Any port in a storm, I guess.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 23 July 2003 01:57 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:


You should be ashamed of your comment. You should also retract it.


I respectfully disagree. I believe that Babble should support the right of people to say what they are really thinking, to vent how they really feel.

Moreover, Justice' comments are highly instructive. From personal experience I can tell you that these kinds of comments are highly representative of what passes as 'Moderate' opinion in Israel. Moderate compared to, say, the fascists in the NPR, the rightwing of Likud, etc. The folks that prefer 'transfer' to the current arrangement. An arrangement, which taking Justice's comments into account, was adequately summed up more eloquently than I could a century ago:


The White Man's Burden, Rudyard Kipling.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go, bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait, in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain,
To seek another's profit
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No iron rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go, make them with your living
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness.
By all ye will or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent sullen peoples
Shall weigh your God and you.

Take up the White Man's burden!
Have done with childish days--
The lightly-proffered laurel,
The easy ungrudged praise:
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years,
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 July 2003 08:26 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:
If I was arrogant I could ask what have the Palestinians have done to contribute to society but that doesn't matter I'd be personally content if they could take care of themselves rather then focusing on fighting the Israeli's.

Unacceptable and you should know it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 23 July 2003 08:36 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
what is so bad about my opinion that there is better ways they could take care of themselves?
why does it sound so negative?

My intent is not to dehumanize or humilate rather encourage

There better ways lots of nations could take better care of themselves

[ 23 July 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 23 July 2003 08:53 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Moreover, Justice' comments are highly instructive. From personal experience I can tell you that these kinds of comments are highly representative of what passes as 'Moderate' opinion in Israel. Moderate compared to, say, the fascists in the NPR, the rightwing of Likud, etc. The folks that prefer 'transfer' to the current arrangement. An arrangement, which taking Justice's comments into account, was adequately summed up more eloquently than I could a century ago:

The majority of Israeli's like me do not support transfer that was Hitler's original intentions. You claim that's what the Jews did in the past but there is much evidence that shows the much of the responsibility was not on their hands. We can continue to argue this on the other threads.

Further more the majority of Israeli's like me do not want to rule over the Palestinians nor do they want anyone to rule over them. 2 states for 2 nations living peacefully side beside mutually helping each other and hopefully when possible the world.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 23 July 2003 10:11 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Justice:

. You claim that's what the Jews did in the past but there is much evidence that shows the much of the responsibility was not on their hands. We can continue to argue this on the other threads.


One problem: you don't actually argue it, you just keep repeating it [i]ad nauseum[/i without providing your sources.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 24 July 2003 12:36 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Further more the majority of Israeli's like me do not want to rule over the Palestinians nor do they want anyone to rule over them. 2 states for 2 nations living peacefully side beside mutually helping each other and hopefully when possible the world.

That would be nice but it seems like it would be also just fine with you if all the Palestinian-Arabs started to call you the baas.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 25 July 2003 01:29 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Samples of Israeli government policy. These actions would not take place with out the support of the Israeli government.

Latet
1


The other faces of the IDF

1

2


3

IDF international

1

Red Star of David

1

2

How the PA is helping

1

2

You can not call the example this thread started with as one random act of kindness and you can not blame Israel solely for the problems of the Palestinians

[ 25 July 2003: Message edited by: Justice ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Justice
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3877

posted 25 July 2003 04:42 PM      Profile for Justice     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
One problem: you don't actually argue it, you just keep repeating it [i]ad nauseum[/i without providing your sources.

Glad to continue this discussion with you so other people can see the truth and make there own opinions I think you'll find a good start here


two sides to every coin


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tbecky
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4195

posted 26 July 2003 11:08 AM      Profile for Tbecky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dear Doctor,

I know that your state is responsible for this and that you may not agree with it or be personally culpable. I just wanted to thank you. Even though your state have treated my people in a manner such that for the last 50+ years we have not been able to help ourselves by training enough of our own children to be medical professionals.

In fact it may be realizing this very fact that motivates you to want to help us. Some people may think that in my letter what I meant to say was, thanks for helping us poor Palestinians since we are inherently too dumb to get our act together to help outselves. What I meant to say was that we may not have had to rely on you had enough of our kids been given the same priveledge that you were.

This is not meant to take away from the great work you did in helping our son. I firmly believe that in terrible regimes lie populations which incredible compassion.


From: Fire Exit | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged

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