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Author Topic: Decima poll on CBC
West Coast Greeny
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posted 01 March 2007 01:57 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Very very interesting:

In Canada: C 36, L 27, N 13, G 13
3 week avg: C 33, L 30, N 14, G 11
Ontario: C 40, L 32, N 15, G 13
Quebec: B 35, L 23, C 15, G 13, N 7


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 March 2007 02:10 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The head of Decima was on the Newman show and said these numbers have to be interpreted cautiously, because the size of the polling population was so small (I think 1000).
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 March 2007 02:14 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The head of Decima also said a) the Cons are not yet in majority territory; and b) their results show a consistent slide in NDP support and, c), finally, that the Greens are doing well among young people who see the Cons and Libs as virtually identical. The Decima head concluded by saying (to Newman) that if it looks like a Conservative majority is likely, quite a few of these respondents would go Liberal instead of Green or NDP.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 March 2007 02:27 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They've stacked the deck with conservative parties. We need electoral reform.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 01 March 2007 02:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Which party is promoting electoral reform as its central campaign policy?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 March 2007 02:39 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is the first national poll I've seen where the Greens are side by side with the NDP, but it's a really small poll size. I think it's essentially meaningless, except it shows the Cons are ahead of the Libs.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 01 March 2007 02:48 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, except for that.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 01 March 2007 02:53 PM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
This is the first national poll I've seen where the Greens are side by side with the NDP, but it's a really small poll size. I think it's essentially meaningless, except it shows the Cons are ahead of the Libs.

It is only meaningless if it is interpreted by the public as such. That is to say, if a Green surge is perceived to be occuring (even if it isn't), it may actually occur as people react to the notion of a Green surge (and, for instance, start considering that the Greens may even win in their riding).


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 01 March 2007 02:56 PM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Also, I disagree that the poll doesn't show the Tories in majority territory. It shows them at 15% in Quebec - a number at which they can probably still hold on to some of the seats of their Quebec rump.

If the Tories are at 36% nationally and 15% in Quebec, then they are at about 43% in the ROC - close to critical points at which you have a Tory sweep.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 March 2007 02:57 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How do the Greens tend to vote on proposed legislation ?.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Drinkmore
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posted 01 March 2007 02:58 PM      Profile for Drinkmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Parkdale High Park:

It is only meaningless if it is interpreted by the public as such. That is to say, if a Green surge is perceived to be occuring (even if it isn't), it may actually occur as people react to the notion of a Green surge (and, for instance, start considering that the Greens may even win in their riding).


No or little org on the ground. They threw everything they had, including BC phonebanks, at the London by-election and still didn't break 30%.


From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hunky_Monkey
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posted 01 March 2007 03:59 PM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I tend to view SES polling as more accurate.
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Boom Boom
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posted 01 March 2007 04:05 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Yeah, except for that.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ravijo
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posted 01 March 2007 04:08 PM      Profile for ravijo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not one to merely deny the polls if they happen to look bad for the NDP. I would mention that Decima and Ipsos have been showing low polls for the NDP of late, with no mention of the rebound that SES and Strategic are showing (17% and 14% respectively in their most recent poll).

The political drama has effectively remained the same in Ottawa, which is allowing trends to set in. The Greens are still honeymooning with May, and they are picking up because of it. Though I have absolutely no idea who will come out on top, things will change, and things will get jumbled up before long.


From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 March 2007 04:11 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not a pollster, so I don't know how these things are done, but Decima's poll of 1000 people in a country of 33 million seems really small to me. Even the head of Decima on Newman's show tonight said not to read too much into this.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Azih
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posted 01 March 2007 04:31 PM      Profile for Azih     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Which party is promoting electoral reform as its central campaign policy?

The NDP is the only party that even mentions it and they're always in favour (no wonder since they get screwed the hardest historically by FPTP)


From: North York | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
ravijo
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posted 01 March 2007 04:39 PM      Profile for ravijo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.ndp.ca/page/4903

Again, it's one of those things that looks nice in policy booklets, but only matters when you act on them.

I still think that the Greens are playing brand politics. They're just waiting for one of their right-wing members/candidates to say something their left-wing candidates wouldn't like and see the whole thing go down from there.


From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 01 March 2007 05:06 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Like, for example, a member / candidate - for example, the leader - saying, "if one group of people say, 'A woman has a right to choose', I get queasy, because I'm against abortion. I don't think a woman has a frivolous right to choose"?

[ 01 March 2007: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 01 March 2007 05:39 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The one pattern I've noticed is that the so-called Greens go up in the polls when they get the LEAST publicity. The last three weeks, while some polls show them going up, I can honestly say that I have not seen one single solitary article in the mainstream press about Elizabeth May or the so-called Green Party and there has been nothing on the national news either. The focus has been on parliament and question period and the parties that have representation in the H of C naturally get coverage. In contrast when there was a tiny boomlet of publicity about Elizabeth May becoming leader or about the byelection in London, their support promptly dropped a couple of points.

Similarly, the last Ontario provincial poll had the so-called "Greens led by Frank DeJong" at 11% (who? you might ask???). Does anyone seriously imagine that even ONE PERCENT of Ontarians have the slightest idea who "Frank DeJong" is??? and of course we had three byelections and they promptly collapsed to the usual 3%. It reminds me a bit of how in 2002 and 2003 the NDP was mysteriously polling 15-16% in Quebec, even though they had no presence on the ground and no leader (but that was when the Action Democratique was polling in the 30s in Quebec and a lot of politically illiterate people just assumed that if two parties have the word "democratique" in their name, they must be the same. When the votes were counted in 2004, the NDP 15% turned into a mirage and they got 4%.

BTW: I heard an absurd report on the radio saying that the Conservatives were in the lead in Ontario for the first time since the early 1990s. This is 100% false. There were several polls during the 2004 and the 2006 election campaigns that at various points had the Tories leading the Grits in Ontario. But when the votes were counted they faded and were a distant second. You cannot compare results of a poll with actual election results and act as if the poll represents actual votes in the ballot box.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 01 March 2007 05:43 PM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've known who Frank Dejong is for years. He was my brother's tech teacher.

[Edited to remove potential libel. Put your own website at risk if you want to post unsubstantiated gossip, not ours.]

[ 01 March 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 01 March 2007 06:18 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The conservatives are sucking up all the air time. The Liberals and the NDP are invisible, and the polls are showing that.

Canadians are also getting increasingly comfortable (being softened up by various right-wing media outlets) with their traditional roles as colonial tools. I've seen enough yellow-ribbon wearing Toronto Sun readers to know that their ranks are growing, even when their stock is declining south of the border. Once militarism takes hold, a "Children of Men" future becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The centre AND the left are in bad shape. I'm not sure what we can do at this point.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 01 March 2007 08:54 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Start pointing out the truly evil intentions of Stephen Harper and the stupidity of giving Elizabeth May a couple seats at the expense of giving Harper the keys to the Kingdom. The Greens can bloody well wait for their two seat "breakthrough" when the situation isn't so dire.

Form a grand coalition of the left if Harper wins another minority, as the BLOC/PQ isn't exactly benefitting from their CPC coalition either, then push for Electoral reform federally Before another election, threaten to expose any "progressive" leaders who won't agree to whats in our nation interest. Then summarily replace Rabinovich as head of the Conservative Broadcasting Corp. Get Rex Murphy assigned to Baghdad.


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 01 March 2007 09:04 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post
look there is only one way to beat the conservatives and the rightward movement in Canada...

Let the Conservatives dig thier own grave...

How does that happen... Read Marx to find out...

he said that the proletarian are arefolutionary class.

Like my sister said nothing will change untill the unemploymnet rate hits 30%....

As long as we keep trying to fix what they are doing , then we will always be singing their tune....


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 01 March 2007 09:05 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post
sorry... thats the proletarian are a revoltionary class.
From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 01 March 2007 09:08 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post
man my spelling sucksssss.... That's...

R-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 01 March 2007 09:09 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Um, you are actually allowed to edit your own posts.

Click on the symbol.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm
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posted 01 March 2007 09:15 PM      Profile for Malcolm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
1000 respondents is a pretty common poll size, and gives a margin of error of 3.2% 19 times out of 20. Margin of error is almost entirely a function of sample size regardless of the size of the population.

Variations between the polling companies reflect differences in methodology which could include how they fram the questions, the ordering of the questions or the means of selecting the random sample.

I'm not sure the Green Party has ever lived up to their poll numbers. Note that an Angus Ried poll last month showed the Ontario Green Party at 11%, yet the party couldn't break 5% in any of the three byelections held about a week later - despite the fact that byelections are the safest times to cast a protest vote and besides the fact that the Green candidate in one of the ridings was their provincial leader.


From: Regina, SK | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 01 March 2007 10:30 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Green party does tend to get barely half the votes polled, that's true, but polling can be about self fullfilling prophecies and manipulating opinion as "support" too. Why else have they remained so popular among corporate led parties? If they're Said to be pulling ahead of the NDP consistently enough long enough, then centre-left 'swing' voters might tend to move to Them instead. Ones who actually get to the polls that is.

If more people ever starting reacting to rightward growth in "popularity" by marching out and voting Against the trend (has happened at times) then corporate sponsored polls themselves would probably get less attention at Global HQ. Dion could bloody well start trying to appeal to centre-Right voters lost to the CPC, instead of trolling on his left Martin style, be far more honest and might even indicate something more than a colonial elite concern about thwarting movement on the left.


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
nicky
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posted 02 March 2007 06:49 AM      Profile for nicky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How would the next Parliament look if this poll is accurate? Here are a few thoughts.

The Conservatives have maintained their 36% from the last election. No overall growth. So they still won't come anywhere close to a majority of seats. Or will they?

Both the Libs and NDP have lost about 4% each to the Greens.

The Cons are down 10% in Quebec which means, as Parkdale High Park points out above, they have advanced by 2.5 in TROC in order to stay at 36%, Quebec being a quarter of the electorate.

If the Libs and NDP lose 4% each and the Cons stay still, there are 11 ridings (all things else being equal) that will switch to the Cons. That gives them 136 seats.

If the Cons gain another 2.5% in TROC, that imperils every Lib and NDP seat with a majority of 6.5% or less. That gets the Cons another 7 seats. They're up to 143.

But that 2.5% hasto come from somewhere, i.e the NDP or Libs, so the 2.5 becomes 5% which puts the average margin of vulnerablity in TROC up to 9%. The Cons bag another 10 seats and now have 153, one less than half of the Commons.

On top of that, given the volatility of Quebec politics, particlarly if the PQ gets hammered in the provincial election, the Cons may reap a few more seats in Quebec.

So we face a majority Conservative gocernment even though they do not get a single vote more than last time.

And the only thing that will have changed is that the Greens will have siphoned off 8% more of the oppposition vote.

And to what end? Even if the Greens gain 8% in every riding they will not come close to winning EVEN A SINGLE SEAT. Even if their vote is tripled in their best seats they may still not win a single seat. Remember that they got 18% two elections ago in BC and didn't come close to winning a single seat. And BC is their best province.

Whatever one might think about the merits or otherwise of the Greens, electoral geography plays against them. They have no sufficient geographic concentration to expect any kind of breakthrough.

It may not be fair. The arithmatic may be cruel. But it is a simple fact of electoral life, under our antiquated first-past-the post system, that we face the prospect of 13% of the electorate simply being removed from the playing field to the great benefit of a hard right government and to the great disadvantage of those who believe in the Green ideals.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
scott
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posted 02 March 2007 08:10 AM      Profile for scott   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
How would the next Parliament look if this poll is accurate? Here are a few thoughts.

Your analysis depends only on redistributing exiting support. How do you know if some of these polling results aren't reflecting some respondants picking a party now when the would have chosen "not vote" (the "off the couch" vote) before?

quote:
And to what end? Even if the Greens gain 8% in every riding they will not come close to winning EVEN A SINGLE SEAT. Even if their vote is tripled in their best seats they may still not win a single seat.

Bingo. I expect the Greens to get at least a million votes next time out, but likely not win a single seat.

You have made a good argument for pro-rep. When may we expect movement on the issue?


From: Kootenays BC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Azih
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posted 02 March 2007 08:19 AM      Profile for Azih     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by scott:
You have made a good argument for pro-rep. When may we expect movement on the issue?
If you live in Ontario then there will hopefully be a referendum in October on the issue on a provincial level (alongwith the election). Campaign for it, vote for it, get it over the high 60% threshold set and that will give significant momentum to the issue everywhere else.

A process is in motion in Quebec and British Columbia as well so we can get involved in those initiatives as well.


From: North York | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 March 2007 08:38 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You have made a good argument for pro-rep. When may we expect movement on the issue?


Elect as many NDP MPs as possible so they have the clout to push for it. Otherwise it will NEVER happen.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 02 March 2007 08:51 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Someone on Newman's show, talking about the Decima poll, called the GPC "spoilers". They won't get any seats, but will spoil the results for others, mostly the Opposition parties.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 March 2007 09:00 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some polls in the Quebec election had the "parti vert" at 10% before the election was called. now that the campaign has begun, they are already down to 5% and sinking fast.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
scott
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posted 02 March 2007 09:01 AM      Profile for scott   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Someone on Newman's show, talking about the Decima poll, called the GPC "spoilers". They won't get any seats, but will spoil the results for others, mostly the Opposition parties.

Superficially, this may seem to be true, but if the increase in Green support comes equally from all the other parties, plus a dollup of new voters, then the net effect of the larger Green vote is zero, unless they win a seat.

quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
Some polls in the Quebec election had the "parti vert" at 10% before the election was called. now that the campaign has begun, they are already down to 5% and sinking fast.

What this means is that the other parties are being supported by Greens at election time, but not in between elections.

[ 02 March 2007: Message edited by: scott ]


From: Kootenays BC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 02 March 2007 09:04 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by scott:

Bingo. I expect the Greens to get at least a million votes next time out, but likely not win a single seat.

You have made a good argument for pro-rep. When may we expect movement on the issue?


When the Liberals move on it. It's that simple.

[ 02 March 2007: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 March 2007 09:21 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What this means is that the other parties are being supported by Greens at election time, but not in between elections.


No, it means that some politically disengaged people with very low levels of political literacy will mumble to a pollster that they might vote "green" when there is no campaign going on, they have no idea who they would vote for, but they think the environment is important and so and they think it sounds "cute" to say they would vote for this mystery party that calls itself "Green".

[ 02 March 2007: Message edited by: Stockholm ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
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posted 02 March 2007 10:59 AM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Face it the NDP are going to be a historical artifact...the Greens are the new "Lean Mean Green Machine" and are the only party capable of delivering a strong message to all governments. Even the rub-a-dub-dub wannabee ndp.

The only green things around here are the "green with envy NDP"


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 March 2007 11:33 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I will so love to remember this thread and Buddy Kat's comments, when the Greens fall dismally flat at election time, yet again.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 02 March 2007 01:20 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No point. He will have already forgotten the whole thing, gearing up for the next great inevitable Green victory.

I've said this for ages, but Greens should focus their energy on electoral reform, because our electoral system ensures they will never, ever, get a seat.

Third parties in FPTP have a ridiculous hurdle to overcome, nearly insurmountable. Parties that have managed to break in have done so in short surges, combining relevant issues and fortunate demographics, such as the CCF in the poverty stricken prairies amidst the misery of the depression, Reform with Western alienation after the collapse of the PC's, and the Bloc, with the whole Quebec angle. If you can't make it over this hump quickly in your inception, your chances of crawling over it gradually are slim to none.

Reform was lucky enough to replace the PC's in the same surge that formed it, so after several permutations it could re-form as one of the "big two", basically back where it started. The Bloc is stuck being the Bloc, for obvious reasons. The NDP crossed that hump when it was formed, but for the exact same reasons, can't cross the next one to become a major player in parliament. FPTP is designed to maintain the status quo and does so with amazing success.

The Greens are stuck because their core value is environmental concern, which is not geographically located in any one region, and is too easily co-opted by the Libs and the Cons. I don't see any electoral success for you guys being remotely possible until our system changes. You should recognise this and act accordingly. I'm not saying the party shouldn't exist or anything, but if you're serious about joining parliament, you need to understand that the pre-conditions for this do not exist right now. You need to solve that first, win seats later.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 March 2007 02:08 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
No point. He will have already forgotten the whole thing, gearing up for the next great inevitable Green victory.

Good analysis of the situation.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 02 March 2007 03:16 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Buddy, for gawds sake I'm trying to make the party look viable here. I don't see the Greens as a "replacement" for the NDP. They're a force that attracts support from PCs, Liberals, New Democrats and independents.

I've had a bad week with Green supporters....

Anyways, FPTP does work against us, but there is no mistaking the party has had momentum since Fall. Winning a seat or two has moved within the realm of possibility (but not predictability)


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 02 March 2007 06:46 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Don't worry WCG. Nobody lumps you in with those guys ('cept maybe Stockholm, but y'know...)

I know the Greens have some momentum going, but it won't last. Just like always people will flee at the first sign that their Green support might help the Conservatives. I've occasionally thought the same thing about the NDP during times of majority governments, that we should be focussing our attention on ER since without it we're highly unlikely to ever be more than a tiny wing of parliament, forever trying to convince the electorate that trading the Libs and the Cons is getting the country nowhere. It is a little different, however, when you have MP's who are representing constituents. You can't just abandon them that way.

And now with the recent trend towards minority parliaments, there is always the chance that we can exert some real influence in a tight vote, so fighting for seats makes perfect sense, even if we can't break through the glass ceiling of the third party curse. For you guys, with no presence in the house, not so much.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
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posted 03 March 2007 01:34 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
The crash of the NDP and the surge of the Green party is the beggining of the end for Layton if not the NDP as a political entity.

Layton has supported Harpercrit far too many times it is the reason for this disaster. in fact Layton and my once beloved NDP party are directly to be blamed for the cancelling of KyotoKelonaCourtsChallengeProgramEnerguide etc etc etc

Layton must immediately stop supporting the neoCons in an attempt to make a name for himself all at the cost of my Canada and the NDP period full stop.

That's what those numbers reveal.

In fact the NDP should now concentrate in ridings whereby they are assured of winning either that or the NDP must merge into the Liberal party.

To not do one of these things will end in the death of the NDP and a large majority for the neoCons.

And if you cannot understand this you are a fool.

Shame on Layton, shame.

[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North ]


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Threads
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3415

posted 03 March 2007 01:41 PM      Profile for Threads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:
In fact Layton should only run in ridings whereby he is assured of winning

Er, given the current campaign financing rules, this would result in the death of the NDP.

quote:
Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:
or the NDP must merge into the Liberal party.

Huh. This will also result in the death of the NDP.

From: where I stand | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2702

posted 03 March 2007 01:49 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
Ergo the NDP are dead.

To be left with One seat; if that.

The NDP are utterly irrelevant thanks to Layton, and once Harpercrit gains his majority and he will thanks to the NDP Layton becomes even more useless than he is now.

You seem to be under the sad delusion that the NDP will be receiving more votes not fewer and fewer and fewer as the polls et al prove, and by concentrating in ridings where the NDP have won or do well would bring in more votes in said ridings and more than likely offset those lost [ie the 11.50 or whatever it is per vote] by not running against the neoCons in Alberta for example this would better suit a party with no resources to speak of thanks to Layton.

It is a complete Folly of resources to run in Alberta.

Layton's Folly.

[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North ]


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
largeheartedboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5360

posted 03 March 2007 01:58 PM      Profile for largeheartedboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:

Layton has supported Harpercrit far too many times it is the reason for this disaster. in fact Layton and my once beloved NDP party are directly to be blamed for the cancelling of KyotoKelonaCourtsChallengeProgramEnerguide etc etc etc

Layton must immediately stop supporting the neoCons in an attempt to make a name for himself all at the cost of my Canada and the NDP period full stop.

Give me one example of where the NDP supported the Conservatives. It's been the Liberals who've voted with the Cons on every confidence vote.


In fact the NDP should now concentrate in ridings whereby they are assured of winning either that or the NDP must merge into the Liberal party.

Give me one good reason why the NDP should do this, considering the effort the Liberals have consistently put into vote splitting in Conservative-NDP races in the last two elections.

Now you ight get some Dippers to support this if the Liberal are going to pull their candidates from those ridings - but that's never gonna happen!


From: Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
largeheartedboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5360

posted 03 March 2007 02:01 PM      Profile for largeheartedboy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:

It is a complete Folly of resources to run in Alberta.

Again, great analysis by a Liberal troll.

And like the Liberals have a snowball's chance in hell of winning in Alberta. The Greens have as good a chance of winning seats.

And any smart political analyst would see that teh most likely seat in Alberta to switch is Edmonton-Strathcona - TO THE NDP!!!


From: Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2702

posted 03 March 2007 02:04 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
"Give me one example of where the NDP supported the Conservatives"

When they brought down the Government.

That's when, and that led directly to all of those cancellations.

How soon we forget [read delude ourselves]

The NDP needs to stop worrying about what the Liberals are going to do and concentrate on destroying the necoCons instead of supporting and making deals with them.

I live in Whitemud and you are out to lunch seriously, the only reason the NDP came in second, a distant second in Whitemud is because the Liberals did not bother to run a candidate until after a week [eleven days] into the election. Again just more ignorance and uniformed people talking about things they know nothing about.

Further this riding has been influxed with new Albertans in the past year, thousands of young white males that like and have tonnes of money, rye, pickups and cowboy boots and hate gays and like to stab people apparently, you do the math.

[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North ]


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Banjo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7007

posted 03 March 2007 02:05 PM      Profile for Banjo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:
In fact the NDP should now concentrate in ridings whereby they are assured of winning

We can only hope that your beloved "Green" Party takes your advice.

All Parties run where ever they can because of the election finance rules.


From: progress not perfection in Toronto | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2702

posted 03 March 2007 02:10 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
I am hardly a "Liberal Troll" I vote NDP, nice smear attempt there Good For You, but honestly the Green Party is probably where I am going to park my vote, I can see a lot of Albertans doing so.
From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 03 March 2007 02:12 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
I've said this for ages, but Greens should focus their energy on electoral reform, because our electoral system ensures they will never, ever, get a seat.

I hope the GP never ever get a seat in Canada. They're nothing but spoilers. I see no justification whatsoever for their existence. If they want to be green and progressive, let them join the NDP and work for the NDP's success.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2702

posted 03 March 2007 02:15 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
the NDP are the spoilers.
From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 03 March 2007 02:27 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sir Canuck, you've obviously been reading Babble long enough to know how to do a spot-on parody of the NDP-hand-wringing-ohmigawd-we're-all-gonna-DIE schtick that's so popular here. Brilliant!

In fact, I see you've been doing similar parodies for almost five years! "Amnesty International condemns Palestinian attacks on civilians", the G7 protests ... clearly you are a master of the art of satire. I salute you, Sir.


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2702

posted 03 March 2007 03:26 PM      Profile for Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North        Edit/Delete Post
I was right on those accounts I will be proven right, again.

With signatures like this:
nationalize the banks / soak the rich / subsidize the poor

I rest my case.

[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North ]


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
oreobw
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13754

posted 03 March 2007 06:31 PM      Profile for oreobw     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sir-Canuck-Of-The-North:
the NDP are the spoilers.

Actually, neither the NDP or Greens are spoilers, to my mind, federally, the Bloc are the real spoilers.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Azih
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7086

posted 03 March 2007 10:53 PM      Profile for Azih     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Green party are an example of exactly the kind of democratic movement that is a testament to Canadian democracy... if it was PROPORTIONAL.

As is I fear we are entering a long period of the left being split as badly as the right was for nearly a decade and a half. :shudder:

Edit: Hell the left didn't even get to take advantage of the right wing split as fiscally conservative as hell Paul Martin was running the show for the entire while. CRAP.

[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: Azih ]


From: North York | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6400

posted 05 March 2007 07:04 PM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
But it is a simple fact of electoral life, under our antiquated first-past-the post system, that we face the prospect of 13% of the electorate simply being removed from the playing field


How's it "antiquated"?

And how are those Green voters (and the Greeners always poll higher than they get, which is why pollsters shouldn't prompt for Green) "removed"?


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
trippie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12090

posted 05 March 2007 09:02 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post
the only thing that is splitting the left in Canda is the fact that the NDP always... and I mean always betrays the proletarian time and time again...

Just think of the NDP in BC and the NDP government of Ontario and every time there is anger and revolt they turn it into a protest movement that goes nowere and nothing gets changed...


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 05 March 2007 09:07 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Huh. I thought it might be more complicated than that. Huh.

Guess I was wrong.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 05 March 2007 09:19 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by oreobw:

Actually, neither the NDP or Greens are spoilers, to my mind, federally, the Bloc are the real spoilers.


The Bloc are responsible for the fact we've had minority governments for the last 2 parliments.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged

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