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Author Topic: Property rights only for white men?
dannybrook
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7483

posted 26 January 2005 10:29 PM      Profile for dannybrook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More proof from Victoria that property rights are only for rich white-men, and even foreigners are a higher priority to them than those who have lived here for 10,000 years or more. This is the official announcement, looks relatively harmless right?

NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release
2005EM0001-000033
Jan. 20, 2005
Ministry of Energy and Mines
NEW MINERAL CLAIMS PROCESS EXPECTED TO BOOST INVESTMENT
VANCOUVER – Mineral Titles Online (MTO), a cutting-edge Internet-based system for acquiring
title to mineral and placer claims – and the latest step in government’s strategy to streamline the
administration of mining and further boost mining investment in B.C. – is now fully operational,
announced Minister of Energy and Mines Richard Neufeld and minister of state for mining Pat Bell
today.
“With MTO operational, B.C. is now leading the world in mineral claim acquisition by
combining map selection with online mineral claim acquisition,” said Neufeld. “This new approach
greatly increases security of mineral title in B.C. and allows title holders to focus their resources on
ground exploration. With this increase in exploration B.C. is going to see more new discoveries, which
will lead to more new mines and more new jobs throughout B.C.”
MTO went live on January 12, 2005. It allows industry and government to process and conduct
claims in a more efficient and cost effective manner. As of Jan. 19, MTO received 2.56 million hits to
the website, and a total of 3,110 claims were acquired.
MTO is an electronic, online mineral tenure administration system that is accompanied by a
new Internet-based map selection process for claim acquisition in B.C. Together they enable free
miners to acquire mineral rights by selecting a claim on a map on a computer screen, rather than by
staking a claim on the ground.
“New Internet technology allows us to both modernize the mineral titles system and to reduce
administrative costs for miners, prospectors and government,” said Bell. “These innovations are the
most significant change to the province’s subsurface title system in 120 years. This is a proactive and
innovative move by government that will attract even more mining investment to this province.”
From 2001 to 2003, exploration spending in B.C. more than doubled, to $63 million. Forecasts
suggest the figure will top $100 million in 2004. More than 47,000 mineral claim units were staked
and recorded in British Columbia in 2004, the most in 13 years.
Clients may access the new system 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. MTO may be accessed from
personal computers, or computers in public libraries and other public facilities including the two
provincial Mineral Titles offices or any of 59 Service BC-Government Agent centres located
throughout B.C. Government agents will also provide information, training and over-the-counter
acceptance of MTO payments.
“Service BC centres across the province provide quick, convenient access to government
services,” said Management Services Minister Joyce Murray. “Launching Mineral Titles Online will
benefit people all over B.C. by providing friendly access to the services they need.”

The move to this innovative system followed extensive consultation with industry. Similar
systems are operational in Quebec, Alberta, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador and are
under consideration in the Yukon, Northwest Territories and Ontario.
The launch of MTO was preceded by amendments to the Mineral Tenure Act and regulations
that eliminated more than 300 regulatory requirements, resulting in a more streamlined regulatory
environment.
The launch also marks the end of a no staking reserve that began on Dec. 1, 2004 and
prohibited the location of mineral or placer claims by ground staking. The reserve provided time for
updating the provincial mineral title maps prior to implementation of MTO.
For more information, please visit Mineral Titles Online at:
http://www.em.gov.bc.ca/subwebs/mtonline/index.asp.
- 30 -
Media
contact:
Tamara Little
Communications Director
Ministry of Energy and Mines
250 952-0621
250 889-1825 (cell)
Visit the Province's website at www.gov.bc.ca for online information and services.
..................


Wrong.


Online Mineral Staking in Conflict with Supreme Court Ruling

Will Horter -- Dogwood initiative

January 21, 2005

Victoria – The BC government’s new online system for mineral
claims, announced today, violates the principles set out in the
recent Haida decision from the Supreme Court of Canada. The
system allows free miners to acquire mineral rights with a simple
click on a computer screen, with no requirement for consultation
with First Nations.

“The courts have clearly said the Crown cannot act unilaterally
in giving out interests in land subject to First Nations claims”
says Will Horter, Executive Director of the Dogwood Initiative.
“The launch of the online mineral staking system shows the
lengths this government will go to ignore Canadian courts,
undermine First Nations title and facilitate corporate control of
lands.”

Last November, the Supreme Court ruled that the government has a
duty to consult and, accommodate First Nations prior to making
decisions granting tenures or interests in unceded First Nations
lands. The Court ruled that “if consultation is to be meaningful
it must take place at the stage of granting or renewing
…licences.” This duty arises before First Nations prove their
rights or title.

The new Mineral Titles Online (MTO) violates the Supreme Court
direction by allowing free miners to acquire mineral rights in
lands claimed by First Nations without notice to, or consultation
with, affected First Nations . There is no mechanism to ensure
that pre-existing Aboriginal title or rights are protected
against negative impacts.

Mineral rights can be acquired by selecting a claim on a map on a
computer screen. In the eight days since the MTO became
operational over 3,100 claims have been staked, establishing
miner claims in more hectares than in all of 2004 according to
news reports.

The government has indicated that the online staking system and
the elimination of numerous regulatory protections are intended
to increase the security of mineral titles and attract mining
investment to the province.

However, First Nations impacted by the flurry of new mining
proposals and increased staking are already considering lawsuits
to shut down the online system and have newly registered claims
declared invalid.

“So much for increased certainty and more investment in mining,”
said Horter. “Who will want to invest money in BC when new mining
laws promote conflicting title claims, litigation and unilateral
action, not discussions and compromise?”

The Ministry of Energy and Mines also approved the elimination of
more than 300 regulatory protections without consulting with
First Nations, raising the possibility of legal challenges to the
new regulations as well.

The Dogwood Initiative is a non-profit group that helps people
change the balance of power to create healthy, prosperous
communities.

For more information contact:Will Horter, Executive Director,
250-882-9930, Email:whorter@dogwoodinitiative.org
............................


{none of this is copyrite, so feel free to express your views or contact either source for more information -DB}

[ 26 January 2005: Message edited by: dannybrook ]

[ 28 January 2005: Message edited by: audra trower williams ]


From: where the sun sets | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
C.Morgan
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posted 26 January 2005 10:46 PM      Profile for C.Morgan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't see anywhere where it said that only white men were allowed to use the new system.

This hardly applys only to the rich as well. Many placer mining operations are small ones and though you may not like to think of it, they are owned by native folks. These people have been mired by that past ruling which has forced huge and uneccessary bureaucratic nightmares onto tiny operations that just can't afford the consultation process for a little one man gold claim.

The other problem is that some groups are considering traditional lands to amount to essentially every acre in North America. I guess by definition they may be. By reality and current standards though, those 'traditional lands' have been parcelled out and that is not going to change.


From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
dannybrook
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posted 26 January 2005 11:42 PM      Profile for dannybrook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not against small miners, but let's be realistic here, there's not many native people who have enough even for that at present. Part of the idea behind the land claims agreement between BC and aboriginal nations was to allow aboriginals to start their own businesses on their own land in their own way. Which is the problem here, the Supreme court of Canada said that the BC government had to recognise their claims and, after much foot dragging, our government agreed. This is in direct violation of the both the spirit and letter of this agreement, see?
From: where the sun sets | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
dannybrook
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posted 26 January 2005 11:50 PM      Profile for dannybrook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, and there not claiming "every acre of BC", that's just another media distortion designed to mislead the people of BC. Looks like they succeeded. Private property isn't on the "table" and the amount of land they expect to receive comes to about 4-7% of crown land, in other words they're ceding over 90% of the claims, that have been ignored by successive BC governments for over a hundred years, in return for some certainty and recognition and the right to pay taxes. Good for them.
From: where the sun sets | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
C.Morgan
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posted 27 January 2005 12:11 AM      Profile for C.Morgan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Encouraging native development on land that is already designated as reserve is more than fine with me.

What I have difficulty with is that which is considered 'under claim'.

Most of my work deals with oil and gas when in BC in the NE end. Fort St John/Fort Nelson etc. I can assure you that every inch of that area is under claim between the Blueberry, Prophet River, Doig, Fort Nelson and a handful of other bands. The exagerated numbers regarding claim percentages on lands often take in areas such as the one above where the claims overlap each other in a huge way. That does make things tough in that regard.

The battles up there generally have been amounting to simple greed. An unofficial system of paying the local 'Godfather' in order to work in the area has gone on for some time now. Even that is failing since we have to pay as many as 1/2 dozen of these godfathers in order to work in one spot.

Just last fall some very large geophysical projects were cancelled in that region by Encana, British Gas, and CNRL. A huge factor in those cancellations was the ever escalating costs of working up there due to the unfounded demands of the local bands.

This is only harming those who live on reserve up there who do want to work. The oil companies went out of their way to 'hire local' as much as possible and hundreds of natives were employed regularly and very well compensated. Now they are left with little for job prospects as there is very little industry to speak of up there when oil and gas are taken from the equation.

I personally am a little bitter on that one though since I was initially supposed to be working on a program up there for British Gas. Since it was cancelled at last minute I have had to sign on to this Arctic stint which wont let me get South of 60 until April.


From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
dannybrook
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posted 27 January 2005 01:24 AM      Profile for dannybrook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by C.Morgan:
What I have difficulty with is that which is considered 'under claim'.

I'm sorry its caused you some inconvenience, but it's what they call prior claim. What is "our" claim to BC based upon?


From: where the sun sets | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 27 January 2005 01:33 AM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This was from an earlier thread. It might shine somemore light on the subject. E


Topic: Home and NATIVE Lands
yankcanuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5582
posted 26 November 2004 05:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First Nations' victory parade
CBC, Nov 25 2004
http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/bc_haida-march20041125.html
VANCOUVER - First Nations leaders marched through downtown Vancouver on Thursday, in a celebration of the recent Supreme Court decision on land use. The Supreme Court said governments must consult with First Nations before allowing companies to use Crown land that's subject to land claims.

The governments had argued they did not have to consult Aboriginal peoples about land that was about to be logged, mined or developed, if native claims to that land hadn't been settled. But the top court disagreed.

Dressed in the traditional regalia, and seated in a traditional cedar canoe, Haida leaders sang a victory song up Howe Street to the Vancouver Art Gallery. There, Sto:lo Chief Doug Kelly told the crowd they had won a moral victory over the government and industry. "They have to know that there is a time for massive change and it begins with that decision handed down by the Supreme Court of Canada," he said. "It is going to blow away forever those very poor impoverished negotiations mandates brought forward by Canada and British Columbia."

First Nations leaders are meeting with Premier Gordon Campbell and his cabinet on Friday...


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 January 2005 03:16 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haida's 1, multinational coporations nil

But we just have to listen to the economists about our needing more free trade, lower taxes, more privatization, "dreg"ulation and hawking more of our non-renewable resources to the capitalists who will, in turn, make us all richer because of that and thereby creating a small class of elite millionaires and billionaires. If we do this, then untold of material wealth will grace us all and demonstrate some sort of trickle-down magic of the market that is yet to be proven anywhere in the world.

It doesn't matter that things seem to be getting worse for a large part of humanity. It seems the capitalists still rely heavily on natural resources and on colonialism made new again. It's a big lie, and they know that we on the left know it.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Al_Czervik
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posted 28 January 2005 02:41 AM      Profile for Al_Czervik        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only on Rabble is it acceptable to make dumb-ass racist statements (like your subject line) and get away with it. Note to moderators: it's racist when you attack white people too.
From: At Liberal headquarters, they don't whistle while they work -- they hum! | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 28 January 2005 05:07 AM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you feeling oppressed white man?

[ 28 January 2005: Message edited by: Erik the Red ]


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 28 January 2005 08:04 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I actually don't like the thread title either. And not because I feel "oppressed".

That said, just curious, Al, have you written to Audra and complained about it, or have you decided to just condemn her in this thread before even giving her a chance to know about it? Do you think she works throughout the night? You gave her, what, four hours in the middle of the night to notice this thread before you started foaming at the mouth about it?

If you hate babble so much, then piss off.

[ 28 January 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 28 January 2005 08:22 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Love the title. Stick with it. Sums up my feelings about bastard lying governments and greedy corporations.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 28 January 2005 08:47 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
A huge factor in those cancellations was the ever escalating costs of working up there due to the unfounded demands of the local bands.
There is absolutely no evidence provided that these demands are 'unfounded'. Any or all of these bands may have legitimate claims. Perhaps if you're bothered by the situation, you should pressure the provincial government to resolve and settle such issues.

From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 28 January 2005 08:59 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly. Native land claims have priority over corporate greed.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7039

posted 28 January 2005 02:50 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Al, have you written to Audra and complained about it

Now what would be the point of that?

I did it once, never even got an answer. (Could have been Michelle, not Audra)

And moderators who happily applaud a TOTALLY baseless personal attack and then compound it with unfounded personal insults are hardly in a position to preach. But almost effective in choking off the discussion.

I ALMOST decided "to piss off" in response. Nice way of encouraging dialogue, isn't it?

P.S. Don't bother to tell me I'm wrong. I know. I just can't see it.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
dannybrook
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posted 28 January 2005 07:53 PM      Profile for dannybrook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry if my heading offended anyone here, but I have to say in my defence that I think Al_Czervick was overeacting just a mite. I don't hate "white men" as I'm a pure white bread ex-suburbanite honkey myself (though I do hate myself in the morning at times) and if dear sweet Al had looked closer at the _context_ of what I wrote he might have noticed that I wasn't saying that white men as a whole were "lying and thieving" but that this particular group of white men in Victoria were. I don't see what's wrong with that if they are in fact lying thieving white men, but I guess I still maintain a backwards belief that what people actually do is more important than how they explain it away. I just hope that this isn't another sad case of subconscious class-guilt transferal (see I AM a white suburbanite at heart) as that can be serious.

I will of course humbly abide by the all knowing judgement of our all powerful moderators. I would have suggested "Lying thieving Liberals" as an acceptable substitute, but asking if "property rights are only for white men" gets right to the point too. Kudos for the Solomon like wisdom of Rabble's underpaid moderators, I only hope kudos are still going for the same rate.

[ 28 January 2005: Message edited by: dannybrook ]


From: where the sun sets | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged

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