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Author Topic: Hydrogen purification technology
Sir George Williams
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posted 19 July 2004 02:13 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In case anybody missed it.

QuestAir to supply hydrogen purification technology to BC Hydrogen Highway(TM) infrastructure project
BURNABY, BC, July 13 /CNW/ - QuestAir Technologies Inc. announced today that it will participate in the BC Hydrogen Highway(TM) by supplying hydrogen purification technology to a vehicle fueling and power generation project in North Vancouver. Jonathan Wilkinson, President and CEO of QuestAir, said the company will provide a QuestAir H-3200 hydrogen purification system to convert raw hydrogen from a North Vancouver sodium chlorate plant into high-purity hydrogen fuel suitable for use in fuel cell vehicles. QuestAir is one of six companies in a consortium developing an integrated hydrogen fuelling and demonstration project in North Vancouver.....

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2004/13/c2345.html


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Klingon
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posted 20 July 2004 06:51 PM      Profile for Klingon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
K'pla! Good article.

Too bad, though, it doesn't mention that the BC NDP government actually invested money in the initial research of hydrogen fuel engines.

It's also too bad that the Liberals, in their outright fundamental idiocy, did not pursue the patenting of this technology, so the province could have reaped great fiscal rewards and created thousands of jobs here by attracting businesses, or developing local businesses, eager to use our patent to develop this technology further.

The same is true for Ballard fuel cells and natural gas engine tech. When Moe Sihota was Environment Minister, he got some of this development going with Westport Energy in Burnaby.

Imagine the things we could have accomplished with this new clean power technology if we had managed to stay in government.

Pained by depression.


From: Kronos, but in BC Observing Political Tretchery | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 20 July 2004 06:55 PM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did DrConway or some other wise babbler talk about hydrogen fuel developement and link to articles that show that it takes more energy to extract hydrogen than using other fuel forms?
From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 20 July 2004 08:19 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I did mention that electrolysis seems to be the only feasible way to do it, but I'm no energy-industry expert. I think it was someone else that pasted a ton of links about hydrogen production.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
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posted 20 July 2004 09:13 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by windymustang:
Did DrConway or some other wise babbler talk about hydrogen fuel developement and link to articles that show that it takes more energy to extract hydrogen than using other fuel forms?

Absolutely not depending (as DrConway says) on how you do it.

He did not mention using solar energy to extract hydrogen from water.

Very environmentally friendly and clean energy all around.

Of cours you couldn't do this just anywhere and -a minor detail -

... the technology needs to be developed.

Ballard had such a great position but it has been dominated by Ford and Daimler Chrysler for a long time. (Not just since that recent deal involving their German subsidiary.)

It's too bad but ultimately a question of raising the funds (i.e. capital) to carry on. And Ballard obviously wasn't able to do this.

What a leadership position we could have achieved in tomorrow's technology.

Instead we (as expressed by Government policy) concentrate on low paying tourism jobs. Yes, low paying tourism jobs. Because that's what the huge (and believe me it will be huge) investment in the Olympics with its related mega projects is.

But no government of BC (NDP or Liberals) was willing to put up the dough to keep them in business as a BC company. (There might have been a little bit of government money, as one writer claimed, under Clark.)

And I wouldn't mind a minority Ford and Daimler position - as has been the case before the last deal - as long as control of the company remained here.

If the hydrogen economy does really happen -and nobody knows- there will be a need of mass produced hydrogen powered cars.

So auto makers having a stake makes some sense.

But unless more than fifty percent of shares are permanently locked away a successful Ballard, a BC Ballard, could still be taken over easily on the stock market by auto makers by offering an outrageous premium if they were desperate for the technology involved.

It's not the fashion in this world among most countries to "interfere in the economy" these days but it's conceivable (and not unheard)that the BC government could take a substantial stake in a BC company like Ballard, some BC unions could do likewise and perhaps some others including the founders to make up over fifty percent of the shares issued in a class of shares that can effectively not be sold

Try and raise capital under such conditions!
It wouldn't be very easy.
But it would assure BC control in the company.

It could very well be the nurture of a new technology. Being successful in this would earn us a lot of respect, and more. Perhaps retaining control of the technology (i.e. say a company like Ballard) would be less important than building on this foundation to develop more solutions for the future.

[ 24 July 2004: Message edited by: Sir George Williams ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
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Babbler # 6119

posted 20 July 2004 09:23 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have no idea for the reason of the horizontal scroll. If it is because of something I did could somebody please tell me?

(Please don't say it's because of the long url of the google search; it couldn't be it continues on the next line. Besides there's nothing I could do about this.)

Hydrogen production some hits from a google search. I have no idea how reliable the info is but I tried to pick from "reputable" sources.

From the Technical University in Berlin:
Hydrogen production by means of an Artificial Bacterial Algal Symbiosis (Project ArBAS)
http://www.bionik.tu-berlin.de/institut/xs2solar

A ton of links to papers from a conference:
http://www.pnl.gov/energy/hydrogen/

From the US Dep of Energy. Various ways to produce hydrogen:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/RE/hydrogen_production.html

Enough already!

And if you haven't got enough a google advanced search and enter in the 'exact phrase box":
hydrogen production

And have fun.

[ 20 July 2004: Message edited by: Sir George Williams ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 20 July 2004 09:30 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's the google search. TinyURL it.

quote:
He did not mention using solar energy to extract hydrogen from water.

Well, I posited using the hydroelectric dams to do that, but if you mean direct photolysis...? That seems to me to be horribly inefficient.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
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posted 20 July 2004 10:56 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
It's the google search. TinyURL it.

Well, I posited using the hydroelectric dams to do that, but if you mean irect photolysisd...? That seems to me to be horribly inefficient.


"TinyURL it."

Sorry but I don't know how to do this.

I fixed the problem though, thanks to you. I deleted the google url and substituted the search terms.

I didn't really mean any particular source since my knowledge of hydrogen and fuel cells is not very extensive.

The only thing I did want to say is that it is an emerging technology; probably the transportation technology of the future and that there are many ideas around.

Some will pan out, others won't. It doesn't really matter, from an environmental point of view if a process is efficient - in a thermo dynamic sense - {if that term makes sense; I'm an amateur) or not if the energy used was not employed before.

Thus the wind on some offshore platform blows or it doesn't, and that will vary, but if nobody used it .....

I'm sure you know what I mean. Or maybe I didn't understand your point about it possibly being inefficient?

Another thing with almost all environmental issues is that almost everything varies from one place to another.

Just an idea:

How about an offshore windfarm (where nobody is bothered by the noise) extracting hydrogen from sea water whenever the wind blows? I'm sure technologigally this would be a cinch. Would it be "cost-efficient"?

If it's 'inefficient' would it really matter since the wind isn't used right now?

And it's clean; a part of the planet's natural cycle air conditioning system.

Check out some of the hits of this google search about wind energy:
http://tinyurl.com/4525x

Especially this one. Installed offshore capacity in the world with all sorts of interesting (make that incredibly interesting) links:
http://home.wxs.nl/~windsh/offshore.html

[ 24 July 2004: Message edited by: Sir George Williams ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 21 July 2004 05:19 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Open a new browser window and hit http://www.tinyurl.com then paste into the text box the humungously long URL you were going to paste into the thread. It'll spit back a smaller URL on the next page after you click the make TinyURL box. Then copy/paste the new URL generated by TinyURL into the post-reply text box.

[ 21 July 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
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Babbler # 6119

posted 21 July 2004 12:01 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you; I'll try it the next time I have a long url
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
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posted 24 July 2004 06:00 PM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"....Norsk Hydro, Norway's largest hydroelectric company, car maker Daimler Chrysler AG, and Shell Hydrogen, a unit of Royal Dutch Shell, approached Iceland's government in the late 1990s and asked to play a role. The companies share equally in a 49 per cent stake in Icelandic New Energy. Daimler Chrysler has supplied the fuel-cell buses, Shell hosts a public hydrogen fuelling station in Reykjavik, and Norsk Hydro contributed the fuelling and dispensing technology. Three buses, representing 4 per cent of the city's fleet, have been in operation since last fall and can travel about 200 kilometres before refuelling.

"It's the same as driving a regular bus, but less noisy," one driver said. Public acceptance of the initiative exceeds 92 per cent. Reykjavik was the first of 10 European cities to establish a hydrogen bus program as part of the 30-bus Clean Urban Transportation Europe project based on fuel cells from Vancouver's Ballard Power Systems Inc.

The Canadian link doesn't end there. Mississauga-based Stuart Energy Systems Corp. is supplying hydrogen filling stations for the project in Sweden, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands.... Further out, under a European project called New Age Ship, Iceland plans to introduce hydrogen fuel to its fishing industry, which accounts for more than 50 per cent of exports. Half of Iceland's oil imports are used today to operate its fishing fleet. The country is investigating how hydrogen should be stored on vessels and what kind of fuel-cell technology would be best for lengthy ocean voyages under harsh, salty conditions.

The grand plan is for the transportation industry to be completely hydrogen-based by 2050, possibly sooner... Sigfusson adds that Canada is in a special position, whether we know it or not. "You've got the highest density of hydrogen-related enterprises," he says. "Generally, Canadian influence in the area of hydrogen is very big." ... A 2003 survey conducted by PricewaterhouseCoopers found that 10 of the top 16 publicly traded fuel-cell or hydrogen companies in North America were based in Canada. Ballard, Stuart Energy, Mississauga-based Hydrogenics Corp., Dynetek Industries Ltd. of Calgary and Kingston-based Fuel Cell Technologies Corp. are among this world-leading group. Factor in dozens of private ventures and Canada clearly is a hotbed of hydrogen and fuel-cell innovation.

Last October, Ottawa contributed $85 million to hydrogen-related development and demonstration projects, on top of previously announced funding of $130 million. .. .In Canada, Manitoba is the only province to have drawn a detailed hydrogen roadmap. It wants to become a centre of excellence for hydrogen safety, and as the bus manufacturing capital of North America, is intent on being a leader in hydrogen-powered buses.

An alliance with Iceland was formed last year to help the province work toward those goals. ... Given its current hydroelectric advantage, Manitoba could be the first jurisdiction in North America where large-scale electrolysis production of hydrogen becomes cost-efficient," the 2003 provincial roadmap states."

For a lot more, very interesting, information read the whole article at:

http://tinyurl.com/3nssu

Like Manitoba BC has large hydroelectric installations.

But the idiots in Victoria and Ottawa "invest" billions in the Olympics and other circuses instead.

What a vision of the future they have!

[ 24 July 2004: Message edited by: Sir George Williams ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir George Williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6119

posted 28 July 2004 03:14 AM      Profile for Sir George Williams        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even though it seems I have this thread all to myself ....

"..Mitsubishi Corporation (MC), Japan’s largest general trading company, announced ...
that it has incorporated a venture company H3 Energy Ltd. in Vancouver, British
Columbia, Canada to develop, manufacture, and market electrolyzer High-pressure
Hydrogen Energy Generator (HHEG), recently demonstrated successfully by MC,
which is able to produce high-pressure hydrogen gas without a compressor. Mr.
Kensuke TOJIMA of MC becomes President and CEO and Dr. Hiroyuki HARADA, the
inventor of this technology, becomes Executive Vice President and CTO of H3 Energy
Ltd. Equity of this new company is 14 Million Canadian Dollars and invested solely
by MC......"
The start-up venture aims to obtain a certain share in hydrogen refueling stations market
which would be growing as fuel cell vehicles penetrates.

http://www.mitsubishicorp.com/en/pdf/pr/mcpr040701e.pdf

"Mitsubishi Sets Up Hydrogen Generator Venture In Canada "
http://tinyurl.com/3jqxx

Leave it to the Japanese to exploit the future; we're too busy training for tourism jobs.

Actually it's the Germans and the Japanese as Daimler Chrysler has 37 percent of Mitsubishi's shares.

[ 28 July 2004: Message edited by: Sir George Williams ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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