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Author Topic: Saint John Harbour by-election
patrickwebber
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posted 16 October 2005 07:44 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Post any news about the Saint John Harbour by-election here.

I read in the Daily Gleaner that Allison Brewer said she would run in a by-election if one was called (Sept. 26, 2005). Does she plan to run in SJ Harbour? There are numerous questions that this raises. If she ran and won, she would be in the Legislature, which would have it's benefits. However, if she ran and lost, it would not bode well for her. The optics would be that she cannot win even in a traditional NDP area. Also, there may be resentment in SJ Harbour at her being a parachute candidate, since her home is in Fredericton. Perhaps having a Saint John local, such as Ralph Thomas, run in the riding may be a better choice. That would ensure NDP representation in the Legislature while leaving Brewer to work at building the party throughout the province.

It was perhaps not wise of her to say that if there were a by-election anywhere in the province that she would run in it, because so many ridings are dead zones for the NB NDP, and thus she would recieve a poor result and appear discredited in many voters' eyes. No New Democrat is going to win a by-election in Edmunston or Albert or Tracadie-Sheila anytime soon. Even SJ Harbour will be a difficult fight.

Thoughts?


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 16 October 2005 09:20 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You are right, Pat. From what I hear, she won't be running.
From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 16 October 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The NDP will not hang onto this seat, although I wish it could.

While it seems smart that the new leader would attempt to retain a seat at the first available moment, it would be foolish to attempt this so soon. There is, at best, a very slim chance the new leader will ever be elected in the province, why rush a defeat so soon out of the gate. The best move would be for the party to delay the inevitable until the last possible moment. This would mean that Allison Brewer wouldn't run until the next general election, occuring whenever the premier sees fit to visit the LG, perhaps in a year or two.

Once again the outgoing leader has shown total disregard for the health of the party...she did not even attempt to see to it that there was a working association on the ground, with an active candidate search in progress, before pulling the plug. A non-existent exit strategy can only be bad for the party. The former leader did what was good for her by taking this appointment, at this time. She sealed the fate of the party by accepting this appointment without ensuring that the party had someone to run with. We should be talking about where the campaign office will be, or which one of the nomination candidates would be best, instead we can only talk about a distant possibility, that of retaining this seat, and it should not be this way. Weir's apologists be damned, she allowed the premier to drive the final nail. Shame!


From: Hub city | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Adam T
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posted 17 October 2005 03:19 AM      Profile for Adam T     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just quote everything B.C NDP leader Carole James said when she refused to run in a byeelection.
From: Richmond B.C | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 17 October 2005 09:10 AM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Adam T:
Just quote everything B.C NDP leader Carole James said when she refused to run in a byeelection.

I missed that, Adam. You must be refering to the Surrey Panorama Ridge by-election, which the NDP candidate won handily.

Can you give me a link to what James said?


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Adam T
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posted 17 October 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for Adam T     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can't find any links right now. The internet is very ephemirial (Sp?)

Anyway, no matter, she said
1.The riding deserved a local candidate, not a parachute candidate who would dissapear as soon as the general election. (Carole James had already announced she would be running in Victoria in the general election.)

2.It was more important for her to travel the province listnening to local concerns rather than being in the legislature where her additional presence would still not give the NDP official party status anyway.

Point 1 means that:
1.Allison Brewer needs to say where she is going to run in the general election.
2.The NDP needs a candidate right away. The fact that the NDP in the Surrey bye election had a high profile local candidate who got 500 people to turn out to his acclimation meeting was a major boost to Carole's argument.

Point 2 is more difficult because, unlike in B.C, the NDP had other members in the legislature before the bye election.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: Adam T ]


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patrickwebber
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posted 17 October 2005 05:28 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It would be very wise for Allison Brewer to state where she intends on running, but that still leaves open the fact that she said she'd run in a by-election anywhere in the province. She shouldn't of said that, because now she'll have to backtrack on that statement, which is not the best way to start off as leader. Bernard Lord, by appointing Weir to her CEO position and thus making SJ Harbour vacant for a by-election, has called Brewer's bluff.
From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 17 October 2005 06:26 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe Brewer should run in Saint John? Not being a NBer, I have no idea how this would look locally. But my uninformed opinion is that even though she is from Fredericton, Brewer was out of province for several years in the North. She can make a strong case that the NDP needs representation in the legislative assembly. Why not move to Saint John and contest the byelection there? Heck, if she is successful, she could stay and hold that seat while using her Fredericton connections to recruit other quality candidates in that city? Is this idea totally out to lunch?

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Socialest
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posted 17 October 2005 07:24 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a feeling that we have little chance at retaining this seat. I think that the largest factor in this is the patronage factor or the lack of it under Weir. Saint John Harbour has been in a state of Decay for 50 years which Weir failed to reverse. All the tories have to suggest is that investment will come if you vote for the gov't. Compound that with the fact that Hooton will be delivering that message and it will be a perfect storm for an NDP riding. I think that the best case scenario is if we retain our base and some change, don't run allison yet but seek as much positive publicity as possible by running a strong campaign with her side by side a strong candidate.

I see this a chance to organise support for the next general election where fight like dogs to take it back. Weir handed the Tories the riding on Silver platter. If I was a tory right now, I would be like a little kid on a sugar-high, intoxicated in their current fortunes but blind to the future. One things is for certain, SJ Harbour will never be a lock for any party.


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jack2
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posted 17 October 2005 11:40 PM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thats right Weir handed the tories S.J. Harbour on a silver platter, couldn't be said any better. For those who still defend how she ran the party and how she left it, others don't understand why your saying it. I'm sure the former leader could care less.
Where is labor at this point?
How many have left the party recently?
How can these problems be solved.
If the party had some of that former support, it would have looked a lot better going into a by-election.
It is a party splintered and floundering.

From: new brunswick | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 18 October 2005 12:35 AM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brewer on Information Morning Fredericton Oct 17 a.m. Here is the transcript.

SEGUIN: Today the province's NDP executive gathers to discuss life after Liz -- Elizabeth Weir that is, who was the lone NDP MLA and former party leader. Last week, as you know, she resigned to become the head of the new Energy Efficiency and Conservation Agency. Allison Brewer, who replaced Weir as leader, joins us now to discuss the party's next steps. Good morning, Allison.

BREWER: Morning, Terry.

SEGUIN: Now, were you suprised by Elizabeth Weir's appointment?

BREWER: A little bit. Yep. I expected she was leaving probably sooner than the next general election but it did come sooner than I thought.

SEGUIN: When did you first find out she was going?

BREWER: Uh, Thursday morning...

SEGUIN: Oh.

BREWER: ...She dropped by for coffee.

SEGUIN: And, she said, I'm outta here, it's up to you now?

BREWER: Yeah, pretty much, yes.

SEGUIN: Now, when I spoke to you on Thursday when we were trying to find whether in fact the rumour she was going to be appointed the head of this agency was true or not and you and I had a conversation and I asked you whether or not you would want to run in Saint John Harbour and you said, "Well, I don't know if that would be a good fit for me and on the other hand for me I don't know if Fredericton South would be a good fit for me either." What are your thoughts today?

BREWER: I don't know if I said I didn't think Fredericton South would be a good fit for me. I actually think it would be an excellent fit. It's home, it's where I'm from. I'm kinda of born and brought up there and brought my kids up there. But, I also lived in Saint John when I was younger. And, I've been back and forth a lot between Fredericton and Saint John over the years. But, that's not going to be my decision to make. That's something that I'll discuss with the executive tonight: our executive and the Saint John Harbour executive.

SEGUIN: You'll leave it up to them? But doesn't your opinion matter?

BREWER: Oh yes, yes of course my opinion matters, but it is something I will do in consultation with them.

SEGUIN: Ok, well what are your thoughts on running in Saint John Harbour?

BREWER: I wouldn't shy from it. I'm certainly up for the challenge but I mostly interested in having the best possible candidate for Saint John right now. And, I have work to do in the party that I could do from the legislature or that I could from provincial office over on Queen Street.

SEGUIN: But wouldn't it be imperative for you to get into the legislature as soon as possible?

BREWER: I don't think so...

SEGUIN: Why?

BREWER: There have been lots of people in leadership positions who have stayed outside the legislature and missed by-elections. Premier Lord for instance sat out -- I believe it was two by-elections -- before he entered the house. I'm here in Ottawa at federal council of the NDP and I had a conversation with Alexa McDonough yesterday who sat out a by-election before she entered the house. So it's certainly not without precedent. And these decisions are made with the good of the party in mind and certainly not with my political ambitions in mind.

SEGUIN: But the legislature would be a very good platform for you to tell the people what you think.

BREWER: It would be, it would be for sure. It may just turn out that I'll be doing that from the steps of the legislature and not the floor of the legislature.

SEGUIN: On the matter of Saint John Harbour -- the riding itself -- as you know, the Tories have what most people are describing as a star candidate there: Michelle Hooton. Are you concerned at all about losing that riding?

BREWER: Yes, of course I'd be concerned about that. I think I'm also concerned that they have this star candidate who apparently makes a very good deputy mayor. And Saint John needs that more right now than they need another seat in the legislature. They've got, I don't know, they've cabinet ministers, they've got other seats and they don't seem to be advancing the interests of Saint John right now. And the Tories don't need that seat -- they might want the seat -- but they don't need it in order to govern. But we need that seat, the NDP needs the seat and the province needs the seat. Otherwise, the voice of the NDP is pretty much shut out of the legislature and that's not going to serve anyone's interest in the province.

SEGUIN: When do you have to make a decision by, how soon do you have to make that decision?

BREWER: Oh I would say pretty soon. Certainly this week. We're a few days into just a month until the next election -- or by-election.

SEGUIN: Ok, let me ask you this just directly. Person to person. Do you -- would you rather run there? Do you want to run there?

BREWER: Do I want to run there?

SEGUIN: Yep.

BREWER: I would run there if I'm asked to.

SEGUIN: Ok. Thanks very much for talking.

BREWER: Ok, thanks so much, Terry.

SEGUIN: Bye-bye. Allison Brewer is the leader of New Brunswick's New Democratic Party.


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 18 October 2005 12:53 AM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It remains to be seen if she will be called on it but Lord in fact ran in the first election after becoming leader. Though there were two by-elections (the same day) during the PC leadership campaign which Lord eventually won.
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davidt
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posted 18 October 2005 03:04 AM      Profile for davidt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ouch.


Depressing stuff.


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nbpolitico
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posted 18 October 2005 09:01 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dan Robichaud looks as though he'll be acclaimed for the NDP. I don't know him, seems he is a stained glass artist.

Michelle Hooton, the SJ deputy mayor was nominated for the Tories yesterday.

Dr. Ed Doherty for the Liberals tonight. Here is a recent article on the impressive Doherty.... http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2005/06_30/2_feature01_12.html


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scorned
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posted 19 October 2005 12:50 AM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, isn't that interesting......you read it here first folks....on rabble.....Even Allison Brewer didn't know when Elizabeth was going to cut the cord.... Simply walks away from the party's one and only seat with nothing on the ground to work from. The former leader handed this seat to the Tories and didn't even bother to warn the NDP about it. Didn't have to be this way...and not a columnist in the province cares why we're not a factor in our seat. Told you so.

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: scorned ]


From: Hub city | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Socialest
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posted 19 October 2005 01:19 AM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually they heard it first on CBC
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realism
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posted 19 October 2005 08:30 PM      Profile for realism     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Weir's method of departure goes to show you that the N-Dippers are as slimy and sleazy as the rest of the politicians. This holier than thou crap is smoke and mirrors. I'm shocked and appalled!!
From: Nova Scotia | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
jack2
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posted 20 October 2005 07:02 AM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
....and why would anyone be surprised by this type of departure. The party itself was only used as a platform to magnify you know who.
This is exactly why the NDP are nothing in N.B., and in Nova Scotia are taken seriously as contenders to form an actual government.
That why its called a Party, not a one man or one woman show.....

From: new brunswick | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
entish
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posted 20 October 2005 12:52 PM      Profile for entish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CBC NB article

quote:
A Saint John environmental activist is hoping to continue former NDP Leader Elizabeth Weir's legacy in the legislature.

Sharon Flatt is seeking the nomination for the NDP in the upcoming Saint John Harbour byelection. The seat was left vacant when Weir resigned last week.


Looks like it may be a contested race after all... Any one have any more info?


From: Deutschland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 20 October 2005 01:04 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by scorned:
Told you so.
I can see how you ended up with your handle.

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scorned
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posted 20 October 2005 01:32 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Albireo, funny you should say that...I actually picked the handle scorned for more reasons that you think. Better to draw attention to my handle than the real issue at hand, that being how the actions of the former leader will deny the party their one and only seat.

There are only a few people here who want to analyze and draw attention to the real political fall out from decisions made, most are more interested in calling into question my motives. For what it's worth, I want to see the NDP form government in this province once it is led someone who should be premier. But, if party members continue allow themselves to be led down the garden path, it will never happen. Someone needs to ask these questions.


From: Hub city | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
RP.
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posted 20 October 2005 01:40 PM      Profile for RP.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by scorned:
There are only a few people here who want to analyze and draw attention to the real political fall out from decisions made, most are more interested in calling into question my motives.

I don't think it's true that people are not open to that analysis. I, for one, am happy to hear your point of view. It's well needed. At the same time, I think that you're overstating the case a bit when you talk about Weir (not by a lot though). Also, I think you're overly cynical about the new executive/leadership.

While I don't think the mistakes of the past should be ignored, I also think it's better to expend energy on building for the future. Being optimistic doesn't mean being blind to the current shambles, it means de-emphasizing them, and focusing on what constructive things can and have to be done NOW.


From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 20 October 2005 03:19 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fair enough, scorned. I haven't commented on much of substance because I'm not a New Brunswicker and I don't pretend to have much knowledge of NB politics, or the NB NDP. My comment was only about your tone. Relentless negativity and saying things like "I told you so" is unlikely to win you friends or converts.

[ 20 October 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]


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nbpolitico
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posted 20 October 2005 08:57 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The nomination is/was tonight... anyone know the results???
From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 20 October 2005 11:10 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Robichaud won according to Global.
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scorned
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posted 21 October 2005 12:57 AM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
RP. and Albireo I appreciate your explanation....I only wish that some of the members here in NB would acknowledge the same.

Unfortunately, and I say that honestly, my tone reflects the level of absolute frustration I feel about the situation the NDP finds itself here in New Brunswick.

I spent years in the party doing everything from grunt work to being the candidate, and a real one not a paper candidate. I've been on the other side of the argument too many times to continue trying to change things on the inside.

I knew the party would virtually implode upon Weir's departure because most of it's core was made up of people who were not interested in winning, building coalitions, or in being truly inclusive. Simply put, the entire direction of the party was hinged upon one person and no one bothered to ask what would happen when this person left. There was too much time spent fawning over the leader and protecting her, and none spent preparing an exit strategy or in looking for leadership contenders that had appeal. I am convinced that had an exit strategy been devised, the leader would not have entertained it. Simply put, that's not how things have been done here. It hasn't been a grassroots party for sometime, just ask anyone that's ever worked on a platform committee in recent memory, their work has always been ignored...the platform being written chiefly by other people from some other place. The NB NDP unlike the other two parties in this province, is not good to it's people, and I'm not talking about patronage. The party does not trust it's own people with the running of election campaigns or in messaging or in anything key in a campaign, for that matter.

But looking forward, there are some very capable people on executive now, and I do hope they are able to turn things around. There are still too many familar names on it though, perhaps the new members can have some sway. But, I will not support the party under the new leader, for several reasons, not limited to the fact that she is un-electable in the province, and has not made any noises yet to show that she is willing to make sure this changes. The party was right not to run her in Harbour, why rush it.


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jack2
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posted 21 October 2005 07:55 AM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
....I can understand where Scorned is coming from.
As a former party member I don't have an intricate knowlege on how the inside working of the party were conducted, but you could certainly see the outside results. It was wasn't pretty, in some cases upsetting labor support,when it wasn't necessary. Supporting the wrong candidates at the risk of alienating the grass root support of this party; and it goes on.
Its true you have to put things into perpective and get on with the present, if your still willing to support the party.
However I think there are a lot of alienated people who attempted to do their best to move this party into serious contention, only to see decisions being made that didn't make a lot of sense. As a result there comes a time when there are those who say, enough is enough, its time to move away from this, because I can no longer support the way things are done in this party.

From: new brunswick | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 21 October 2005 12:49 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
scorned, et al.. I appreciate with and agree where you are coming from but I am starting to find it very frustrating that you are taking any topic on the NB NDP and dragging it into the Weir debate. This topic was set up to discuss the by-election and it would be nice to have specifics on that event here as opposed to going over the problems of Weir's leadership. Might I suggest that a topic for that purpose be created so that this thread does not get jammed up with off topic information?
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nbpolitico
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posted 21 October 2005 12:50 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Privateer:
Robichaud won according to Global.

Indeed. Today's TJ says Robichaud won (barely) on the first ballot in a three way race.

Robichaud 10
Terry Albright 6
Sharon Flatt 3


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 01:57 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nbpolitico:
scorned, et al.. I appreciate with and agree where you are coming from but I am starting to find it very frustrating that you are taking any topic on the NB NDP and dragging it into the Weir debate. This topic was set up to discuss the by-election and it would be nice to have specifics on that event here as opposed to going over the problems of Weir's leadership. Might I suggest that a topic for that purpose be created so that this thread does not get jammed up with off topic information?

Well, as the person who set up this thread, I find the observations of both scorned and jack2 to be very useful. So, to the both of them, please continue.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Josie
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posted 21 October 2005 01:58 PM      Profile for Josie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nbpolitico:

Indeed. Today's TJ says Robichaud won (barely) on the first ballot in a three way race.

Robichaud 10
Terry Albright 6
Sharon Flatt 3


Are those the numbers??

If they are, it says something (something very very bad) about the organizational state of the NB NDP that they can only drag out 19 voting members into an incumbant riding for a three way nomination race.

Yikes!


From: Pitt Meadows | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 02:01 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow! A whole 19 people voted at the SJ Harbour nomination meeting. Gee, the NDP steamroller is sure set to roll over the competition!

P.S.: That was sarcasm.

Really though, this is quite sad. I know from my own research that as of November 2004 there were 64 "registered" NB NDP members in that riding. The fact that only 19 bothered to show up to a nomination meeting to elect a candidate to contest the one NDP seat in the province is further evidence of the party's decline.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 21 October 2005 02:31 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by patrickwebber:
Really though, this is quite sad. I know from my own research that as of November 2004 there were 64 "registered" NB NDP members in that riding. The fact that only 19 bothered to show up to a nomination meeting to elect a candidate to contest the one NDP seat in the province is further evidence of the party's decline.

39 registered members, Pat.

[ 21 October 2005: Message edited by: CanadianOrangeRevolution ]


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
RP.
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posted 21 October 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for RP.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nbpolitico:
Robichaud 10
Terry Albright 6
Sharon Flatt 3

Weird that the candidates couldn't sign up more people to support them. Then again, I guess the resignation wasn't that long ago. Perhaps the riding association had a rule about how long you had to be a member before you could vote.


From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 04:00 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CanadianOrangeRevolution:

39 registered members, Pat.

[ 21 October 2005: Message edited by: CanadianOrangeRevolution ]


Didn't you read my post? I said 64 members as of Nov. 2004. It may very well be 39 members as of the time of the Convention in late Sept. 2005. Either way, it shows a decline in interest in the party, even in the most basic act of showing up in a room to vote for a candidate.

And stating that there are now 39 registered NDP members in SJ Harbour only reinforces my point: that the NB NDP is bleeding members at a very rapid pace.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
RP.
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posted 21 October 2005 04:01 PM      Profile for RP.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is "bleeding" the same as "neglecting to ask them to renew"?
From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 21 October 2005 04:23 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wasn't being snarky Pat, I thought you wanted an updated number. Sorry if I offended you.

And yeah, RP, NBNDP membership number declines are oftentimes attributable to unintentional non-renewals.


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 21 October 2005 04:36 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hmmm...and to think that when the federal NDP had its last convention, Elizabeth Weir ran for the position of party President and almost won. I guess we dodged a bullet there considering the shambles she seems to have left the NB NDP in!
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 04:39 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CanadianOrangeRevolution:
I wasn't being snarky Pat, I thought you wanted an updated number. Sorry if I offended you.

Sorry if I miss interpreted your comments. Thank you for the update. Actually, if you have the new membership totals for all the ridings in NB, I'd love to have them.

Again, I apologize for thinking you were being snarky. One of the perils of internet discourse.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 04:41 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RP.:
Is "bleeding" the same as "neglecting to ask them to renew"?

I do know that the NB NDP asked for membership renewals in mid-July or so, because my dad mentioned that someone called asking if I wanted to renew my NB NDP membership (I had already moved to BC at that point). So the new membership totals are based on renewals.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 21 October 2005 05:06 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The fact that only 19 bothered to show up to a nomination meeting to elect a candidate to contest the one NDP seat in the province is further evidence of the party's decline.[/QB]

It is pretty sad indeed. In fairness though, there are some things to consider. There were 50 people at the meeting but only 19 were registered members. The Tory and Liberal nominating meetings had 150 and 250 people out respectively but as there was no vote at those meetings many of them were probably non-voting members. It still dwarfs the NDP meeting but puts into a little better perpective.


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Scott Piatkowski
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posted 21 October 2005 11:29 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a shame that the provincial party couldn't have done more to capitalize on the federal party's strong showing in Nouveau-Brunswick last June (20%, better than in Ontario).
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patrickwebber
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posted 21 October 2005 11:38 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scott, you pointed out an interesting paradox about the NDP in NB. At a time when the federal NDP is stronger than ever in the province, both in support and organization (7 of 10 ridings already have nominated candidates), the provincial party is a hollowed shell that barely exists.
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Scott Piatkowski
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posted 21 October 2005 11:51 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by patrickwebber:
Scott, you pointed out an interesting paradox about the NDP in NB...

Hey, you can learn a lot about a province by driving through it


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
davidt
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posted 23 October 2005 07:57 AM      Profile for davidt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am a big supporter of the NDP and a hard core volunteer when I get the chance (but Pat put me to shame!! good ole Pat!!) I hit every campaign with my door knocking that I could, be it provincial or federal. I sold NDP memberships like they were ice cream. I went nuts and made it a personal issue to turn every co-worker I ever had into a dedicated leftist.

But I was constantly disgusted by the shocking disintrest that the provicial powers that be showed to the provicial party. I tried twice to volunteer my services as a researcher for the party and nobody got back to me. Twice in person, more than that counting the phone. No interest at all from the Wier people.


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ndpgurl
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posted 23 October 2005 12:18 PM      Profile for ndpgurl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm in Saint John Harbour and we need all the help we can get. We are starting late. We have an office on Waterloo St., we have ordered signs, buttons and are desiging a pamphlet. The Campaign Manager arrives on Monday and Dan Robichaud is willing to work his ass off to win this riding.

Going through the records most of the support for the past campaigns came from outside of the province so we need volunteers, expertise and donations.

I think that we can win this riding, but it's going to be really tough. If any of you from the SJ area could help out please let the campaign or Provincial Office know.


From: Fredericton | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 23 October 2005 09:29 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just wondering......ndpgurl, where is the campaign manager arriving from?
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scorned
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posted 23 October 2005 09:30 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Has Weir offered to knock on doors?
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CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 23 October 2005 11:21 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by scorned:
Just wondering......ndpgurl, where is the campaign manager arriving from?

Nova Scotia.

quote:
Originally posted by scorned:
Has Weir offered to knock on doors?

Have you?


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 24 October 2005 12:46 AM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, whether or not I've volunteered THIS TIME doesn't hold any water considering the fact that it wasn't me who handed the seat to the Tories, or perhaps the Liberals. Once again Canadian Orange Revolution you've missed the point, better to deflect the debate and defend at all costs.

I came across an interesting quote from Stephen Lewis apparently delved from his new book.....the quote has to do with his calling on the UN (his employer) to be a better organization......"There is a tendency to think that dissent should be contained, that self censorship is to be applauded. I regard both those sentiments as the last refuge of an intellectual wimp."

Nothing against Nova Scotians, but once again, the party looks outside to run a campaign, instead of trusting it's own membership.
You can be guaranteed that the two other parties have campaigns that are staffed by locals, or at the very least from within the province, make no mistake, it matters.

Just keep defending the way it is, and I'm sure it will spur improvement.

[ 24 October 2005: Message edited by: scorned ]


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patrickwebber
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posted 24 October 2005 02:39 AM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll offer my frank opinion on this one: we have not a hope in hell of holding SJ Harbour. We have a candidate whose name I've never heard of, against a well known Liberal doctor and a popular Tory deputy mayor.

I find it interesting that none of Weir's apologists have come to her defence on this one. As the CBC interview shows, she left the party hanging out in the cold, its one seat thrown to the Tories and Liberals to fight over, with no warning whatsoever. No candidate search set in motion, no organization in place on the ground, no campaign preparations made, nothing. The fact that Bernard Lord had a star candidate waiting in the wings for the moment Weir left shows that he was planning this all along, and Weir just did him a huge favour in return for her new CEO position. I guess one hand washes the other. The party was left to fend for itself, forced to conduct a by-election right after a leadership convention.

I know I will likely be attacked for such blasphemy. The cult of personality still lingers. There are those who would rather engage in almost-religious devotion to the cult of personality rather than ask the tough questions and make the necessary criticisms that need to be made if the NB NDP is to survive. Unfortunately, those of us who dared ask these questions before Weir left were made to feel intimidated by such actions, and have subsequently abandoned the party to the ostriches with their heads in the sand. The likely end of the NB NDP was a suicide. In spite of the fact that the party is about to lose its only seat, in spite of the declining membership rolls, in spite of the $360,000 debt, in spite of the end of labour backing the party, in spite of the irrelevance of the party in environmental circles, in spite of the evaporation of the party's Acadian support and it's likely end due to having a unilingual leader in a bilingual province, in spite of all of these things, the party will still be inhabited, I am afraid, by those who will continue to believe in fairy tales because those of us who feel otherwise were effectively shut out of the party. Nothing can illustrate this unwillingness to acknowledge harsh realities and the insistence that all is well than Allison Brewer's statement, upon winning the party's leadership, that "we're going to take this province by storm". Such a statement is the New Brunswick equivalent of the Iraqi Information Minister's assertion during the 2003 U.S. invasion that "there are no American tanks in Baghdad".

[ 24 October 2005: Message edited by: patrickwebber ]


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Socialest
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posted 24 October 2005 11:52 AM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well put Pat.

One thing about robichaud though that I think has been overlooked it that he is the salt of the riding. He was born and raised on the lower west side and worked there all his life. While I share your sense that we have no hope of winning this riding, as long as the campaign team doesn't cannibalise one another (big if), I think that we will have a stronger organisation coming out of this By-Election. I think Dan will bring out regular folks and capitalise on dissent around the LNG deal. I also think that (again, if people don't cannibalise) there may actually be a few operatives with some skills after this by-election.

One of the strongest critiques of Weir and her era leadership is the professionalist attitude and modus operandi that she exhihited and dictated in both the operation of the party and her work in the legislature. Weir was (emphasis on the "was") an uber qualified Legal professional who more or less prosecuted the Gov't, delivering harsh enditements and calls for resignations with flawless the legal arguments and she did so with ease and if a member without the proper qualifications attempted to speak publicly on behalf of the NDP they . Also, during campaigns, she hired out of town professionals for Campaign manager and all other serious positions (i.e sign guy, Polls organiser etc.) developing no, if not degrading the, skill base existing in the riding association. Worst of all is the dis-incentive that was created toward being activist or operative in the riding as recruiting is limited for a one woman army. As a result the initial reaction of the only Riding association in the province with an incumbent was not run a candidate. During the Weir Era the NB NDP was a party for the people but not of the People.

Back to Mr. Robichaud, I am more than happy to have him writing as just as much to learn about, running in elections, organising and just plain being political as the rest of the party. It has been so long since the rank and file have been able to express their desire for change and political creativity through the NB NDP that most of them forget how to do it other than donating money. It is cooperative "salt of the riding" type candidates such as robichaud (Ralph Thomas, Oscar Doucet, Alice Finnamore, etc.) who are going give progressive elements in NB the shelter of a big tent rather than some CFA professionalist autocrat who alienates everybody and everything but herself, her cadre and her personal support and operates the party as an executor.

I think the party needs all of the unknowns it can get as who the hell else was known other than Weir.

On a Federal note the NDP would be in pain right now if Weir had been elected president. She represented the opposition to Jack Layton and his supporters. She is a staunch critic of Jack and objects to the populist way the party is presenting itself to the public and being run internally. She would have been a devolutionary lightning rod.

This could be the end of a long and painfull period for the NB NDP and I think we should be cheering every average joe or jane who steps forward to demonstrate their conviction towards the party, senses a need for political change in their gut and has an open mind and is willing to learn and work.


From: Freedonia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 24 October 2005 04:27 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pat, Socialest: good points all.

Scorned: Take a good, long look at Socialest's post. Socialest provides Scorned-style vitriol, but then, toward the end, offers hope and prospects for the future. You've got the first part down... how about working on the second part, Scorned?

Look, of course a critical analysis of the past and of the status quo is useful going forward, Scorned, I just take issue with how you go about it. There is a hole in your logic big enough to drive a truck through: Elizabeth was bad, Elizabeth is gone, the Party is somehow worse. The sylogism just isn't there, dude.

I think, Scorned, that you see the Party as drowning. Fair enough, but why are you standing on the dock, watching it drown? Rather than lend a hand to the drowning entity, you are arguing with it over whether it is in fact drowning, and over squabbles that you have had in the past. Why not jump in? Whether the party deserves being saved, or whether or not it acknowledges that it is drowning is completely immaterial.

[ 24 October 2005: Message edited by: CanadianOrangeRevolution ]

[ 24 October 2005: Message edited by: CanadianOrangeRevolution ]


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 24 October 2005 06:52 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
On a Federal note the NDP would be in pain right now if Weir had been elected president. She represented the opposition to Jack Layton and his supporters. She is a staunch critic of Jack and objects to the populist way the party is presenting itself to the public and being run internally.

Actually, my understanding was that Jack was quietly supporting her for President.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
jack2
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posted 24 October 2005 08:44 PM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not really sure where C O R is coming from, must have been a backroom backer of Weir. Scorned has simply stated it as it is. As stated Scorned worked in the trenches, and is through with present situation. Whats' wrong with that, Scorned has a right to critize as well as anyone else. In fact theres' one good long piece of criticism {from someone else pray tell } thats dead on about this party, or what was a one woman show. How about the hole in that one C O R, or do you even have a truck to drive through it.
From: new brunswick | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 24 October 2005 09:07 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm just a concerned observer, Jack. Maybe I was being too abrasive, I just want what is best for the party going forward. If that means that we should engage in a critical analysis of how bad Elizabeth was for the party, then by all means the party should engage in precisely that type of dialogue.

The question, I guess, is whether or not such a conversation is constructive going forward. That's the rub: I am not necessarily disagreeing with anything that Scorned has to say, I just don't see the efficacy of her/his approach.

The party organization is mostly new. The people who Scorned was scorned by are gone. I just don't see what her/his criticism has to do with today's NB NDP.

Rhetoric aside, let's hear an answer. How is Elizabeth-bashing (or Elizabeth-boosting/defending, for that matter) useful at this point? If such discussion can help the Party going forward, great, I'm perfectly willing to engage in it, both here on babble and in live conversation with other Dippers. I'm being quite serious, I'd like to have a discussion about the usefulness of the Anti-Weir discourse.

Thoughts?


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
jack2
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posted 24 October 2005 10:55 PM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would say that seeing as the dear leader just resigned in the recent past and a by-election called, as if on cue. Ya, I would say its ok roast the performance, or lack thereof of the one person responsible for most, if not all of the important decisions that have guided this party for the last 16?, seemed like yesterday, years...
Pat, spelled it out, blow by blow ,how many; as well as others including Scorned.
Look, Weir had a real chance to make a permanent difference for this party in this province and leave a legacy that would have been admired. We all know what occurred.
So, sure look to the future, but there is a very recent past we at talking about here, not history from WW 2.

From: new brunswick | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 24 October 2005 11:46 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Canadian Orange Revolution, I think we need to talk about Weir's leadership in order to prevent the same mistakes from happening again. I think her leadership should be analysed because of comments like "there wouldn't be an NB NDP if it wasn't for her"... I think this mentality needs to be discussed. Just the same as George Little should be talked about. Yes, Elizabeth did alot of great things, many of them made New Brunswick a better place....but there should be a discussion on the results of her leadership...this is important because if people keep saying she caused the sun to rise set, there will never be any answers to questions like....where did labour go? Where did all those people that used to be NDP members go? I can think of countless people who were made to feel like "they were the only ones" who thought the NDP needed a new leader...so many of these people left the party and are waiting to come back.

But Canadian Orange Revolution, I appreciate your questions, they are well put, and have greatly raised the level of this discussion. You question my committment to the party, and rightfully so, simply put, I was dedicated to the party for years and years, but when I saw the leader back a union breaker as a candidate, I lost my faith in the party. However, I waited and hoped that there would be a leadership candidate worthy of support....that candidate never appeared. I cannot support the party under the new leader, she is the wrong leader, period.


From: Hub city | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 25 October 2005 12:16 AM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scorned, you are absolutely correct about Mr. Martin, who should not have been allowed to run.

I do, however, want to respectfully disagree about Ms. Brewer. She was easily the best candidate that stepped forward (damning with faint praise, perhaps). Is she ideal? No, but few are. I think that Allison has the 'personality building blocks' required to craft something worth supporting, especially given the two years that we likely have between now and the next election. I think that Allison deserves our (the NB NDP membership's) trust and support.

I agree that we should take some lessons from the past, specifically with regard to the degree of collaboration and open-mindedness needed to grow the base of the Party. It must be a very difficult balance to strike, because there are those, however well-intentioned, who are politically unsavy or simply unqualified to be allowed into the decision-making process. At the same time, all people have something valuable to contribute, so how do you strike the proper balance without alienating them? I can think of people - perhaps even myself - who can be valuable foot-soldiers for the party, but should not be allowed anywhere near the media, the policy book, or the campaign decision-making process.

How do you tell somebody in that position that the party is not interested in their strategic opinions? Should the powers simply lie, and say "thanks for this research", and then proceed to throw it into the trash? Everybody thinks that they have something intellectual to contribute, yet most would be more valuable pounding lawn signs into the ground. I really do think that a little bit of elitism is needed, and I think that that constitutes the bulk of my beef with the anti-Weir crusaders: I don't think that they understand how much worse things would be if everybody who wanted to speak for the Party was permitted to do so. There has to be a vetting process, and the critique of Elizabeth should be that she vetted too strictly. I am worried that a backlash to that approach would go too far the other way.

So how do we take the lesson from the past (not to be exclusive), and balance it with the requisite sensibilities (not to be too inclusive)?


From: Fredericton | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 25 October 2005 12:54 AM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So how do we take the lesson from the past (not to be exclusive), and balance it with the requisite sensibilities (not to be too inclusive)?

Well, Canadian Orange Revolution, we turf the gatekeeper. We make sure that it's not one person and a couple of academics deciding what goes. It's supposed to be a democratic party, it should be one again.

I remember the musings of having a shadow cabinet, the response was always the same...well we can't do that because.....blah blah...when I think of who could have been in the shadow cabinet...the results would have been nothing but positive. It wasn't about what "they might say", it was about whose face wouldn't be in the paper.

The mentality that we cannot trust our membership to do anything except put up signs and call people, is getting really old. I understand that you're taking the question much farther than this example Can. Or. Rev., but
the importation of campaign managers, of someone to talk to the press etc.....has to stop....the results of continually slapping the membership in the face are evident.....too many have left. The other two parties trust their membership a whole lot more than we trust ours. They even let their membership have a hand in writing the platform. We have the structures in this party, structures that have safeties built in, lets use them.

I mean if we're really worried about having the wrong people in important positions, just look a couple years back, the president of the party was hand picked by the leader, this president was not up to the task, was not political, could not think strategically, had no workable vision for the party, and most importantly could not provide a steady hand when one was needed. Had a steady hand existed during this period, the party would have been much better for it.

So when the membership picks someone who was not fronted by the leader, we see him resign mid term, why? My guess is that he didn't fit the prescribed mould, whatever that was, and was effectively smoked out by the powers that be.....perhaps because he didn't walk blindly? I wasn't surprise to hear of this resignation, there have been others.

[ 25 October 2005: Message edited by: scorned ]


From: Hub city | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Socialest
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posted 25 October 2005 12:01 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scorned I think that you are right when you say that we call ourselves a democratic party and we should act like one. There is a need for an executive (not necessarily an elitist vanguard of the Working Class) to execute the will of the larger body. But the will of the party has to be expressed by the members through a democratic process where everyone gets fair and equal say. The reverse has too often happened in the past.

It is true also that at election time everyone has bear down and do some grunt work and leave messaging and dealing with the media to those most apt to the job and the candidate. This does not mean that the party needs it's big decisions reffered to an intellectual elite. They should be reffered the largest body of members possible so that there are intellectuals but there are also people who can attest to the actual condition of working people and can be approximante their needs.

However, I plead with to give Allison Brewer and the new administration a chance and even maybe a drop of goodwill, something else the NB NDP is sorely lacking in. While I concede that Brewer may not be the leader to whip NB into an NDP frenzy launching us to official opposion or gov't and it may seem that she brings forth the same basket of issues Weir brought forth, she is not a Weir chrony, and given Weir's ill-conceived departure, it is safe to say that she rather pissed off at our diposed majestrate.

More than this Brewer has worked with democratic community organisations, non-profit enterprise, the gov't of Nunavut and been an activist in PSAC, a much different background than a Legal professional turned NDP leader. She has made a commitment to return the NB NDP to it's foundations of participatory democracy as it is a system she has been immersed in since she first started fighting for social causes.

Secondly, Weir's henchwomen were purged at the last convention. There were only 6 to 8 of them and the only one that is left is the Past President who doesn't have vote on executive. In talking to party insiders most of them haven't been heard from since convention. This is a new group of people. It also looks like the party is going to have to start from square one and begin to re-inventing itself according to democratic principles. Labour has shown a renewed interest in the party and environmental and social justice organisations are comming back to the table. Most importantly the Rank and file is begining to grow again which hasn't happened in 15 years.

Scorned, I appreciate the reasons why you are bitter about past and pessimistic about the future but instead of trashing Brewer and the new administration I suggest that it may be what you have wanted all along, out with Weir and here dictatorial chronies and in with new democratically oriented activists from all of the NB NDP's constituent movements. Allison Brewer may or may not be the leader to make significant electoral advances but she is the leader build democratic party infrastructure to achieve that goal in the long term.


From: Freedonia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 25 October 2005 01:01 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Socialest, I appreciate and somewhat agree with your analysis. May I add the following.....If Brewer can see to it that some legs are put under the party, her term will have been a success. She will not be elected, so the focus must be in building the party so that the next leader has something to go with.

I'm not trying to run down this new leader, I am simply stating the facts as I see them....the only chance we have of seeing another New Democrat leader elected, is in having one that has broad based appeal. Brewer will be seen as someone who does not have this appeal, she has already shown an inability to be strong on bread and butter issues. She has only been forceful and quotable when speaking of her past engagements, thus far.

The focus of the new regime, than, must be to build the party at the riding association level, so that there are some working structures on the ground from which to run serious campaigns.

I'm not going to beat around the bush here, I won't work for the new leader. I'm not going to rush down to Saint John Harbour and waste time and money that I don't have, yet again, to see us come in third. I'm going to sit back, and if I'm still in the province when the time is right, I may jump back in. I can say that I've learned something from beating my head against the wall, I won't do it anymore. Other, newer people in the party seem to get paycheques of out the deal, people much less qualified than me, so why bother putting myself out.

But, going back to the question at hand, building the party so that Harbour and other seats will be back in play, the new regime should start by phoning up those former members, telling them that things have changed and that their input and expertise is required. If I were provincial secretary I'd spend two hours a day just doing that, if executive members wouldn't, better yet, perhaps the new leader should do this. I mean, she's basically starting from scratch. This would send out a very clear signal, that things have changed and that the party wants it's people back. This could be time well spent.


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jack2
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posted 25 October 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...As this process starts anew, although there was not much left to build on, just a shell, the next few years should be used to build a strong foundation. The present leader I believe should look at themselves as interim, at best, and guide a very small party one step at a time, as a small business would grow. Building on each gain.
At the very least there should be no scrambling to find candidates and -paper candidates - for an election that everone knows is coming. The electorate does not respect a party that can't even govern itself and pull itself up by the pant legs.
Once the NBNDP is strong enough to attract a leader with broad base support and strong leadership abilities, don't select one who's only interested in the star on their head and how many press clippings they can collect.
Pick a real leader.

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Privateer
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posted 30 October 2005 01:38 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yesterday, I saw a story about this on the ATV news. Lots of coverage of Peter MacKay and others coming in to campaign for the local Tory. Some coverage of the Liberal leader going door-to-door with the local Liberal. Not even a mention of the NDP candidate or campaign. OUCH, GROSS
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davidt
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posted 30 October 2005 10:38 PM      Profile for davidt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When one is active in the nbndp it sometimes feels like a very solitary position. You have yourself and your friends and you do the best you can as you go down in flames. But on the other hand some of the best darn NDPers I have ever met were new brunswickers. If you are a NDPer in NB you have to be dedicated (or crazy).
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Privateer
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posted 31 October 2005 12:51 AM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by davidt:
When one is active in the nbndp it sometimes feels like a very solitary position. You have yourself and your friends and you do the best you can as you go down in flames. But on the other hand some of the best darn NDPers I have ever met were new brunswickers. If you are a NDPer in NB you have to be dedicated (or crazy).

At least NB still has one of the NDP's strongest MPs, Yvon Godin. Sadly, provincially it might be a little while in the MLAless wilderness for the good folks up in NB.


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jack2
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posted 31 October 2005 10:06 AM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
.....thats right guys its a wilderness here, especially after having someone who was not interested in building the party into a credible alternative. Instead and sadly, the party was just used as a platform for the former leader to put herself in the media spotlight and disregard the rank and file of the party, that which is so important to any political party.
But that was her choice, and it could have been so much more. Now there are so many people that just don't care about the fortunes of the party anymore.

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Socialest
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posted 31 October 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hold it folks, I don't think things are quite as bad as they may appear. Despite the indifference of the main stream we actually have a strong campaign on the go in SJ Harbour.

The print media (Irving Dailies) has all but declared war on the NB NDP however we are mounting a strong ground campaign with more signs up, and intensive door to door canvassing. The Campaign has realised that they have to communicate directly with voters rather than focusing on crafty use of the media.

There is more and more hope every day as Dan is getting a warm reception on the doorstep. The PC candidate - Michelle Hooton appears to be going down in flames. She looks Psycho in her signs. On friday night when she was introduced over the PA at a Saint John Sea Dogs game at Harbour station she was booed.

We are not in the wilderness yet. If anybody has spare time I would encourage you to go down to Saint John and help out. Believe it or not there is alot of momentum behind our Candidate, Dan Robichaud and with a big push in the next two weeks we will pull this off.


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CanadianOrangeRevolution
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posted 31 October 2005 04:05 PM      Profile for CanadianOrangeRevolution     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Though I'm certain that some will dismiss this as the baseless ravings of a naive fanboy, Socialest is spot-on in his assessment.

I spent the weekend in SJH, and I think that it is pretty clear that the big bad machine (Tory/Liberal/Irving) is completely out of touch with the demography of this riding. The Orange sentiment is palpable. If you are getting your information from the media, you are not getting the clear picture here.

Listen to Socialest! Get down to SJH if at all possible.

[ 31 October 2005: Message edited by: CanadianOrangeRevolution ]


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Stockholm
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posted 31 October 2005 05:20 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
At least NB still has one of the NDP's strongest MPs, Yvon Godin.

Can someone in NB explain the folllowing? There must be 5 or 6 provincial ridings that overlap with Godin's federal riding. When he was first elected in 1997 I was hopefully that the provincial NDP in NB might have a good crack at those seats since Godin must have some organization and local contacts etc... But in each of the provincioal elections since 1997, the NDP has had low single digit results in all those seats.

Why is this? Does Godin lift a finger for the provincial party?


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Socialest
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posted 31 October 2005 10:11 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Listen to Socialest!

Yes Listen to Socialest


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Socialest
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posted 31 October 2005 10:22 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stockholm,

Godin got the seat he has because he is able to pull the labour vote. Unfortunately, unless there is a shining star like godin labour in NB is very gomperish. The rank and file either vote strategic of vote for their own.

The relationship between NB labour and NB NDP was fouled in the 2003 prov. election over an internal dispute over the credentials of a candidate in the riding of tantramar. The movement and the party are mutually exclusive these days.

With the new leader and administration relations are beginning to thaw a bit but it will be a long mending process.


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nbpolitico
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posted 01 November 2005 03:50 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

Can someone in NB explain the folllowing? There must be 5 or 6 provincial ridings that overlap with Godin's federal riding. When he was first elected in 1997 I was hopefully that the provincial NDP in NB might have a good crack at those seats since Godin must have some organization and local contacts etc... But in each of the provincioal elections since 1997, the NDP has had low single digit results in all those seats.

Why is this? Does Godin lift a finger for the provincial party?



Actually Stolkholm, you are not entirely correct. The NDP had some really strong showings in 1999 within Godin's riding far better than 1995...

Nigadoo-Chaleur 16.2% (vs. 8.5%)
Nepisiguit 27.7% (vs. 10.7%)
Centre Penisule 9.7% (vs. 5.7%)

However, it was somewhat bizarre in that Weir completely wrote off these ridings in 2003, they even had a paper candidate in Nigadoo-Chaleur (a Fredericton prof who cannot speak French and did not travel to the riding). Some conspiracy theorists would argue that she avoided these ridings like the plague for fear of someone else winning a seat and taking the spot light away from her.


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jack2
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posted 01 November 2005 10:19 PM      Profile for jack2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
.......That would be bizarre,,,but you could be right on with your assessement of weir,,,NBpolitco.
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Socialest
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posted 02 November 2005 11:09 AM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It looks like Dan did OK in the debate last night.TJ article

Sparring makes for lively debate

CBC

It also appears that the media has stopped ignoring the NDP.


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patrickwebber
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posted 02 November 2005 12:13 PM      Profile for patrickwebber     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dan should hammer in on the LNG Terminal issue, to highlight the difference between the NDP and the PC/Liberal bloc. I'm more and more encouraged by the news that seems to be coming from SJ Harbour. Perhaps my previous prediction was a bit hasty.
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scorned
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posted 02 November 2005 12:17 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The idea that the former leader didn't want company in the House is well put, but in the case of the 2003 provincial campaign, this was not directly the case.

Northern NB was a no-go zone for the NB NDP because of the candidate running under it's banner in Tantramar. Weir backed the riding association in their support of a union breaker, this caused some very important people on the North Shore to essentially block the provincial party from the area. This is why almost all the candidates in the area were paper ones who lived somewhere else.

I understand that it was so bad, regular party supporters would not sign off on any nomination papers, due to the candidate in Tantramar....it was only because of non-NDP supporters that the party had candidates in the region.

By Weir backing the candidate in Tantramar, several very prominent labour types left the party, and haven't been heard from since. I hear that many labour types are waiting on the day to return, but it won't be tomorrow.

Politics of the worst kind was played during this period, by people with prominent positions in the provincial party, this only caused things to go from bad to worse, and further, caused people like myself to form certain strongly held opinions.


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scorned
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posted 02 November 2005 12:36 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On the bias of the Irving press.......the Telegraph Journal has actually been reasonably fair and has devouted an adequate amount of space to the NDP campaign.

I don't think it was helpful, or professional, when Brewer ran down the Telegraph at Robichaud's nomination. I mean, come on, what do you expect them to print,....."well the other two parties have a candidate and the NDP going to pick one soon, maybe, so lets write about that".....

When the other two parties were talking about possible contenders, the TJ couldn't get anyone from the NDP to tell them what was going on...they need NDP news in order to write NDP stories.

Obviously some people have never read that rag they call a paper in Moncton, (if you haven't, don't start). If you want to talk about outright bias and complete disregard for reporting the news...have a look at that one. In 1999, when the TJ was covering EVERY nomination in the province, the Moncton paper (Tory Times) printed a front page story about how a palm reader was predicting Lord to win....meanwhile we had released our platform the previous day in Moncton. Unlike the Moncton rag, the TJ has made an effort to cover politics in the province somewhat objectively...I only wish that their commentators would stop blaming the party for getting out of the gate late, and look at WHY this happened. Yesterday, Tom Cunningham mentioned that the party "must have known the byelection was coming"....unfortunately I don't think they did.

I'm not going to defend the Irving's, I don't go to their gas stations, haven't since they broke CEP 691, but I'm going to call a spade a spade. They're certainly not on our side, but in the case of the Harbour byelection, at least one of their paper's, have been fair.


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Privateer
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posted 04 November 2005 07:47 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by patrickwebber:
Dan should hammer in on the LNG Terminal issue, to highlight the difference between the NDP and the PC/Liberal bloc. I'm more and more encouraged by the news that seems to be coming from SJ Harbour. Perhaps my previous prediction was a bit hasty.

Steve Murphy called it a 3-way race and suggested the polls indicate that in his discussion with the Duffster on ATV. I also saw a clip with Robichaud denouncing Tory vote-buying. Looked decent enough.


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Socialest
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posted 06 November 2005 12:00 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More good press in the Telegraph for Dan.

SAT TJ Article

This is nice to see but I think the TJ may be setting him up for a fall.


From: Freedonia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Privateer
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posted 06 November 2005 12:04 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Socialest:
More good press in the Telegraph for Dan.

SAT TJ Article

This is nice to see but I think the TJ may be setting him up for a fall.


You need to subscribe. Could you give us a small clipping?


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nbpolitico
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posted 06 November 2005 12:22 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Privateer:
You need to subscribe. Could you give us a small clipping?

NB Telegraph-Journal | Saint John
As published on page B1/B2 on November 5, 2005

Robichaud a community guy running in familar territory

By John Chilibeck
Telegraph-Journal

An emotional person often has moments of unguarded honesty, when his sentences spill out faster than most people can say a few words.

A chatterbox has similar tendencies because he doesn't care to self-edit. It all just comes gushing out.

The New Democrat candidate for the byelection in Saint John Harbour Nov. 14 is both emotional and a chatterbox, and he doesn't apologize for it.

Dan Robichaud says he feels strongly about the place he grew up because he understands people on the lower West Side, the South and North ends. He counts himself as one of the working poor.

"I can be excitable just like anyone else trying to survive," says the 46-year-old on a recent tour of the neighbourhood where he grew up on the lower West. "But if I can keep a tone where people can listen and understand what I say, I think I'll win them over."

Mr. Robichaud is frank on a number of topics, including his first choice for Saint John Harbour. It wasn't him.

When the NDP began looking for a new candidate to replace former party leader Elizabeth Weir, who held the riding for 14 years, Mr. Robichaud thought Ralph Thomas should get the nod.

The community activist and veteran New Democrat came a strong second to Liberal MLA Roly MacIntyre in Saint John Champlain in the last provincial election. Shortly after, Mr. Thomas moved from the East Side to Princess Street uptown, making him an ideal choice for Saint John Harbour.

Problem was, Mr. Thomas didn't want the gig.

"When I realized he wasn't running, I looked around and said, 'We can't elect someone who's not a community person.' And that's how I decided to run. When this is all over, no matter what happens, I'll be back at these doors knocking, talking to seniors, to people who need help. I'm one of these people."

That's not hard to see standing outside Mr. Robichaud's modest apartment on St. John Street, just up the hill from where he and his father, Eloi "Al" Robichaud, once worked the docks.

It's a neighbourhood of old families that look out after each other. In the four-unit Mr. Robichaud calls home, his parents occupy the bottom apartment, his cousin and aunt live in the other two, and Mr. Robichaud is on the top floor, sharing his space with a roommate and his cat. Like many people around, here he's done plenty of different jobs over the years to pay the bills, even left for Ontario for a stint. He's been a welder, steel fabrication fitter, horse trainer and breeder, artisan, to name just a few.

Walking down the street, Mr. Robichaud points to where businesses once stood and what needs to get fixed, even if it's something as simple as a park bench missing a few wooden boards. He can fire out almost all the names of the families that live at each address. In case any of the oldtimers forget he used to deliver their groceries as a scrawny kid, Mr. Robichaud campaigns door-to-door with his father, who has been a volunteer in the community for decades.

When he's in the South End, the candidate is sure to mention that his stained glass business is on Union Street and his father grew up on Brunswick Drive.

It's a background Mr. Robichaud feels separates him from his rivals, Liberal Ed Doherty, who recently moved to a tony apartment on the waterfront, and Conservative Michelle Hooton, who lives in the affluent heritage area.

Sure, the riding is diverse and includes plenty of university students and professionals, but Mr. Robichaud knows the real voter base is the working poor and seniors.

That's why he keeps pounding on issues that affect the two groups: affordable housing, early childhood education, and better medical coverage.

Mr. Robichaud resents that he's been characterized as the underdog in this race, pointing out that voters surrounding the harbour have been loyal to the NDP and proud of Ms. Weir's record as a defender of the powerless. Still gabbing a mile a minute, he insists it's the Liberals and the Conservatives who should be worried.

"We got to keep making our voices heard. There are certain things we are entitled to, and we'll keep dogging the government until we get what's right, whether they're Conservative or Liberal."


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Socialest
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posted 10 November 2005 04:58 PM      Profile for Socialest   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

NB Telegraph-Journal | Provincial News
As published on page A1/A2 on November 10, 2005

Premier Lord: how does he play in Saint John?

(Peter Walsh/Telegraph-Journal)
Premier Bernard Lord was in Saint John this week to present a cheque to the Boys and Girls Club.

By Lisa Hrabluk
Telegraph-Journal

Bernard Lord's name isn't on the ballot but it might as well be.

The premier, or more specifically the perception of him, will affect Saint John Harbour voters' intentions on Monday far more than anything the four candidates may have said or done over the past month.

If that's the case, it could be a rough night for Mr. Lord and his candidate, deputy mayor Michelle Hooton.

As the local campaign team must have figured out by now, Saint John is not friendly territory for the Conservatives, and in particular their mercurial leader.

Saint John Harbour is a mixed riding, with the desperately poor living alongside the upwardly mobile in the city's core.

Neither are particularly enamoured with the provincial Conservative government these days.

For low income residents, there is a decided distaste for politicians of any ilk, which wouldn't bode well for the governing party, regardless of its political affiliation.

As for the middle class of Saint John's urban core: if they have largely accepted the long-held criticism of Mr. Lord that he is an indecisive leader or one uninterested in this corner of the province, they aren't likely to vote for his party now.

That could be unfortunate for Ms. Hooton.

Whether it costs her the election is the question now dangling over the Liberal and Tory camps as they head into the final weekend of the campaign.

And let's face it, this is a two-way race.

Saint John Harbour may have belonged to Elizabeth Weir but with her name off the ballot, the NDP won't be able to hold onto her voters.

Too bad for Dan Robichaud, the NDP's personable candidate who has worked hard to position himself as the populist candidate.

The effort will likely draw support from that core NDP vote - somewhere between 10 and 15 per cent - and not much else.

Independent candidate Glen Jardine will also fail to have much of an impact on the final tally, which leaves Ms. Hooton and Liberal candidate Ed Doherty fighting it out for the riding.

NB Telegraph-Journal | Provincial News
As published on page A1/A2 on November 10, 2005
Lisa Hrabluk


This is pretty harsh talk on the Part of the TJ. I expect a result much higher the %15 for the NDP in this riding.


From: Freedonia | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
scorned
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posted 11 November 2005 09:53 PM      Profile for scorned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The TJ published a poll done by Corporate Research Associates on the front page today, November11/05...showing that the Liberal candidate Ed Doherty will win handily.

Liberal 35%
PC 10%
NDP 9%

As predicted, we won't win the seat but apparently neither will the Tories. It would appears that Saint Johners don't like to be bought with their own money.

This will be a ringing indictment on the performace on the premier, and will surely be a signal of what's in store for the Tories.


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Hunky_Monkey
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posted 12 November 2005 04:40 AM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by scorned:
The TJ published a poll done by Corporate Research Associates on the front page today, November11/05...showing that the Liberal candidate Ed Doherty will win handily.

Liberal 35%
PC 10%
NDP 9%

As predicted, we won't win the seat but apparently neither will the Tories. It would appears that Saint Johners don't like to be bought with their own money.

This will be a ringing indictment on the performace on the premier, and will surely be a signal of what's in store for the Tories.


What happened to the other 46%?


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nbpolitico
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posted 13 November 2005 10:02 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was 34% undecided.

They asked the undecideds were asked if they were leaning and the result became:

Doherty (Lib) 53%
Hooton (PC) 20%
Robichaud (NDP) 19%
Jardine (Ind) 2% (he was 1% without undecideds)
Truly undecided/not voting 6%


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Privateer
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posted 14 November 2005 08:30 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Polls closed 40 minutes ago. Any news?
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Albireo
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posted 14 November 2005 08:35 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No evidence of any results on the NB by-elections page, but it looks like they don't do any live results.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]


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nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 08:39 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doherty has won every poll so far by a hefty margin, most by 2-1 some by 3-1. Hooton has already conceded.
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Privateer
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posted 14 November 2005 08:40 PM      Profile for Privateer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who is in second?
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nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 08:57 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With 23 polls in the results are (approx) Doherty 1400, Hooton 600. No word on Robichaud's total.
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nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 09:07 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
23 of 27 polls reporting...
Ed Doherty 1,435 votes for 55%
Michelle Hooten 666 votes for 26%
Robichaud at 457 votes or 18%.

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action jackson
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posted 14 November 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for action jackson        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
whoa. that's a blow-out. this is the only site that i've been able to find any results. did i read correctly above that Hooton has already conceded? i guess this shows that that this by-election couldn't be bought.

my only disappointment is that now, nobody will be motivated to ask whether the PC's/Hooton violated the campaign spending limits.


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nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 09:23 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by action jackson:
my only disappointment is that now, nobody will be motivated to ask whether the PC's/Hooton violated the campaign spending limits.

Why not? It would be more fuel for the Liberals or for the NDP which will now really need to find ways into the press.


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Albireo
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posted 14 November 2005 09:29 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nbpolitico:
23 of 27 polls reporting...
Ed Doherty 1,435 votes for 55%
Michelle Hooten 666 votes for 26%
Robichaud at 457 votes or 18%.

Ouch! Ass kickin'! And back to square one for the NBNDP, with zero seats.

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action jackson
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posted 14 November 2005 09:38 PM      Profile for action jackson        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nbpolitico:

Why not? It would be more fuel for the Liberals or for the NDP which will now really need to find ways into the press.



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action jackson
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posted 14 November 2005 09:41 PM      Profile for action jackson        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
good point. someone will really need to pick this up though, the Hooton PR team at the Telegraph-Journal certainly won't offer to make a story out of it!
Those massive "Rootin' for Hooton" signs around the city and the colour adds in the TJ and here can't have been cheap. And wasn't the spending cap $20k?

From: Saint John | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
LadyLeft
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posted 14 November 2005 09:45 PM      Profile for LadyLeft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The final results as quoted to me by Socialest are:

Doherty - 2126 votes or 55%
Hooton - 1002 votes or 26%
Robichaud - 669 votes or 17%
Jardine - 43 votes or 1%


From: Fredericton | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
LadyLeft
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posted 14 November 2005 09:53 PM      Profile for LadyLeft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.cbc.ca/nb/story/nbbyelexn051114.html

The first coverage I have seen other than this message board.


From: Fredericton | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 10:25 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There were results at the following spots before the NB CBC caught up...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051114/nb_byelection_051114/20051114

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20051115/ca_pr_on_na/nb_byelection

As well as on blogs and wikipedia:

http://oldmaison.blogspot.com/2005/11/liberals-wins-in-landslifde.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John_Harbour


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 10:34 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Final results on the office of the Chief Electoral Office now. They are slightly different than the CBC article.

http://www1.gnb.ca/elections/03prov/05nov14/05nov14provbyresults-e.asp

CBC article votes probably came fromt he campaigns which would have omitted advance and absentee results.


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 November 2005 10:41 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.tinyurl.com is your *friend*, dude!
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
http://www.tinyurl.com is your *friend*, dude!

Whoa.. cool site.. thanks!!!!!


From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 14 November 2005 11:05 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, why such a big swing from the NDP to the Liberals?

I could understand the Tories doing badly, but what the heck were people mad at the Dippers for?


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
nbpolitico
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posted 14 November 2005 11:46 PM      Profile for nbpolitico        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No one was really made at the NDP, it was a question of voting for the leader of the NDP, one of the best known politicians in NB and three-term incumbent MLA in 2003 versus voting for a largely unknown guy in this by-election. Moreover, the Liberals and PCs had their province-wide organizations engage to fight this campaign, the NB NDP has no such organization.
From: Canada | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 15 November 2005 11:26 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by action jackson:
Those massive "Rootin' for Hooton" signs...
Can the "Fartin' for Martin" signs be far behind?

From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dwday
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posted 15 November 2005 01:23 PM      Profile for dwday     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
it was a question of voting for the leader of the NDP, one of the best known politicians in NB and three-term incumbent MLA in 2003

And, might I add, a personally popular leader who did more to keep the government honest in any given week than the official opposition has done since day one. My politics are somewhat right of the NDP, but I'd have voted for Elizabeth Weir in a heartbeat were I not in an adjoining riding.


From: Saint John, NB | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged

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