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» babble   » from far and wide   » nfld, labrador, pei, ns, nb   » Federal Politics

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Author Topic: Federal Politics
Nic
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posted 21 June 2001 12:18 AM      Profile for Nic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is it a waste of time for Atlantic Canadians to involve ourselves in federal politics given how few seats we hold and our near invisibility to the National (cough cough Toronto) media?

Is it best for politically minded Atlantic Canadians to place their energies in getting good provincial governments?


From: Incheon, Korea | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
wagepeace
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posted 21 June 2001 05:59 AM      Profile for wagepeace     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hell NO!

Atlantic Canadians now more than ever need to become involved in federal politics because we need to fight the 'lazy maritimer' perception that many federal politicians have of us.


From: In a fog and on anti-psychotics | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 21 June 2001 07:45 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lazy maritimer? What's that? As far as I've heard out here on the left coast, if there's anything that Maritimer's aren't, it's lazy. Maybe I'm basing too much on my reading of The Shipping News, though.
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 29 June 2001 07:45 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I find federal politics to be quite tiring. I think more of a difference can be made provincially. And we've all got finite energy to devote to politics, right?
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 June 2001 11:27 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh please oh please, Audra, please please please all Atlantans, please don't leave us ...

Living in the supposed umbilical centre, one of the one-party provinces currently in the grip of megalomaniacs who not-so-secretly believe that they don't need the rest of the country, I for one am on my knees begging the rest of you to keep insisting, as loudly as you can, that the country goes on and we need to be brought to heel within it ...

Make us stay! Make us behave! We need you! Spank us!


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 10 July 2001 05:56 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe if you form an "Atlantic Separation League" you'll start getting attention I find that when regions start forming these "regional interest groups" like the Alberta Independence party or the Bloc Québecois, more and more stereotypes are developed and encouraged by the media. The Bloc is always portrayed as a whiny French supremacist organization (except for a little bit last November). And the Alberta Independence Party was portrayed as a bunch of gun-huggin'-hicks (though, I am searching for evidence this isn't true, I haven't found any yet ). So far, the "Ontario Independence party hasn't gotten any media coverage, though it has a membership of 1, so... I'm sure there's a Newfoundland separartis party somewhere that hasn't gotten attention yet. But if Atlantic Canadians form one of these groups, I think the "Lazy maritimer" attitude will surface up and reign supreme over national sentiments. Anyway, you weren't suggesting that, so my rant is not only boring but pointless .

As for my comments that actually make sense, OH DEAR GOD, PLEASE GET MORE INVOLVED!!!! And what's this nonsense about a finite amount of energy devoted to politics??? BAH! Anyway, go out into the streets, knock on doors, ask people to vote with a social conscience, and hopefully, come election day, we'll see a sea of orange next to the....sea. I know there are better options than the NDP, but I think most people either don't like the fringe parties, and prefer mainstreme parties, or, the NDP could be as left as they're willing to go. Also, there are a lot of NDP supporters, so it will be easier to mobilize people and votes in your favour. As an ex-Newfoundlander, I remember a lot of people voted tory because of family tradition. you had tory families, and you had liberal families. a few NDP in St, john's and Labrador, but that's about it. The liberal vs. tory family voting has existed since the first referendum on Newfoundland's status in the world (Britain, responsible gov., or Canada), and it'll take a lot to break that kind of trend. But sometrends must break considering we've seen more than one party in power in Newfoundland. Anyway, don't leave us! PLEASE! perhaps an information exchange (this already exists, its called "rabble" silly name, I know ) can help us understand John Hamm, Pat Binns, Roger Grimes, and Bernard Lord, while you could understand Harris, Campbell, and Klein. (Central and Western premiers don't get to have first names. We speak their names as though they are former German and Italian dictators from the thirties and fourties (gee, I wonder why? )) With any bit of luck we can together help elect a national government that gives a F@%#$ damn!


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
NP
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posted 11 July 2001 07:27 PM      Profile for NP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meades: Isn't there already a Newfoundland Seperatist Party... Mark an X for Jerry Boyle???
From: The city that rhymes with fun | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tiger999
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posted 13 July 2001 07:36 AM      Profile for tiger999     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As a Montrealer, I want my own country. Montreal, I mean, not Quebec. But if I can get Quebec as a country, I'll take Quebec.
<p>
As a Nova Scotian by heart, I want not to live in the same country as skdadl. I want Toronto feminazis two countries away so that I don't hear their squealing from here. The Nova Scotia and Montreal feminists, I love, they are lyrical and funny and playful. All the things that Toronto feminazis are not.
<p>
Who else believes in smaller countries? Well, Jane Jacobs and Carol Moore, for two, both libertarian-leaning experts on borders and urban areas. Moore's views are reflected in the <a href="http://www.secession.net">secession.net</A> site, Jacobs' in <a href="http://www.provinceoftoronto.ca">provinceoftoronto.ca</a>. Then there's Marilyn Waring and Gloria Steinem, but that's enough praise for serious feminists for one day.
<p>
Atlantans respect Canada. But I don't think they respect skdadl, or Judy Rebick, or Mike Harris, or Catherine MacKinnon, or Jean Chretien, or more Ontario control over our lives and our culture. We've had enough. Really.

From: Montreal | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 July 2001 09:48 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Something smells like a troll here...
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
denise
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posted 13 July 2001 06:37 PM      Profile for denise   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pray, which Atlantans are you presuming to speak for, there? Really, now.
From: halifax, ns | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tiger999
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posted 14 July 2001 06:37 AM      Profile for tiger999     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All my relatives back in the East who would be working now if not for Ottawa, don't have anything good to say about Ontario. They'd rather deal with Boston and New York than Toronto. Back to the old rum-running days.
From: Montreal | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
singhjm
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posted 14 July 2001 01:17 PM      Profile for singhjm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is an Atlantan? Do you mean Atlantic Canadian? If you are only talking about New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia, then you should be using Maritimer.
Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tiger999
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posted 14 July 2001 08:44 PM      Profile for tiger999     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like the word Atlantan to mean all of the Maritimes and New England. From Massachusetts to Newfoundland there is one general idea of ethics and neighbourliness. All those people share a common history of a struggle with the sea to pull out a living - and of having to trust your neighbour fully because you have to get in a boat with him or her. There's wackos in New Hampshire and ugly little baronies in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia (with the name Irving on them), but all those people are more alike than different. So maybe Maritimers benefit the most from free trade because they get to be closer to Boston and Maine and further from Toronto and Ottawa. Here's to an Atlantis re-emerging after the landlubbers destroy themselves with toxic waste and infighting! From here I'll just take the St. Lawrence to the real world.
From: Montreal | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 15 July 2001 10:41 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You like the word "feminazi", too, but if you don't knock it off with that, I'm going to get really disgruntled.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tiger999
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posted 16 July 2001 09:00 PM      Profile for tiger999     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Get as disgruntled as you want, the word is in common use. Most feminists would agree that there IS such a thing as a "feminazi". If you suspend my posting ability just for using that word, outside of using it to label someone which is probably fair game, maybe the whole world hears about this li'l enclave of Andrea Dworkins and maybe it gets so buried in trolls that it never recovers.


Let's be a little more civil than that. In fact it was Dawna Matrix who I think first used the word feminazi on this board, wasn't it? Why don't you take up the issue with her.


From: Montreal | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 16 July 2001 09:09 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's true, Audra. Feminazi is a word I use in conversation all the time. I use it for all feminists who think that feminism is exclusive to non-shaved types in hippie styles, girls who judge a woman ten times more than a man does based on her style of dress. It's out there, and Naomi Wolfe warned us about it in the Beauty Myth. I think the stuff that is bothering you about tiger is his general tone, not a specific word.
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 17 July 2001 03:09 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's offensive, actually, and I'm really not okay with it, and I'd rather not see it on babble. I think it is minimizing to people who actually dealt with real nazis. Using it in the abstract, however, is one thing. Using it specifically, as tiger999 has been (ie: calling skadl a "feminazi") is even less okay.

Threatening to flood this site with trolls if you're banned, tiger999, is also not okay.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
tiger999
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posted 17 July 2001 03:24 AM      Profile for tiger999     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Depends on why I'm banned. But OK, I'll stop calling skdadl a "feminazi" for now and let Dawna Matrix decide who is one and who isn't. At least in the "federal politics" thread. And I won't send tiger1000 through tiger1000000 to troll this board if you are a good moderator and issue warnings by private webmail before banning people for unclear things. But if you don't, I will, and I'll consider that totally fair game - especially close to a federal election.
From: Montreal | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 17 July 2001 12:59 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can see your point Audra, but slang often develops like that - for me to say anything about a more historical figure (like, if someone is over-reacting, I might say "don't be such a drama queen, Van Gogh") it would be admissable and quite possibly funny, because the memory of the real pain is well past, and frankly, no one really gives a fig anymore, least of all Van Gogh himself.
As for the real pain that Nazism has contributed to my life:

I doubt that you have had as close contact with a screwed up war veteran as I have. I only know too well about nazis, as my father is a very scarred person, physically and emotionally from doing battle with them. In turn he scarred me. Perhaps I feel that it is okay for me to draw this correlation in attitudes (that someone else is not alright because of who they are/what they look like) because Nazism didn't end in 1945 with the Nazi party and Hitler. What they did (start a war) got passed on to the other side as well (with what each and every soldier experienced), and in turn it was passed on within the families of these soldiers, in reactionism, violence, hatred and emotional bankruptcy.

War is in the family. If I can joke and quip about it, maybe you shouldn't grudge it.
I also refuse to wear poppies.
I have every right to use this word however I please. Nazis took the man my father was and could have been. I paid the price for the devastation in his life, right along with him.

I'm sorry if this offends you though, for the simple reason that I do not like to offend anyone.
But I refuse to hop on the bandwagon of what not to say. I have a very valid reason for using this term, and I would also like that to be respected here.


From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 17 July 2001 03:22 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A fair argument, Dawna. I appreciate that.
Lucid and civil debate is always fine.

From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 17 July 2001 03:38 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks.
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eddie Lear
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posted 18 July 2001 03:18 AM      Profile for Eddie Lear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whether you care about conTEMPORARY politics or not,remember the old locution if you don't get the better of politics,politics will get the better of you.Prior to the late twenties Germany had one of best recorded overall treatment of jews including north america and britain,Racism is everybodies problem and if hitler really believed in it he wouln't have made such a mockery of his own philosophies.The SS were sadistic cowards,i hate to generalize but when the allies were on the advance they grabbed the gold and left their women to be raped by everyone.World war two was the worst thing that ever happened.Every man who saw combat returned to developed at least some phychopathological qualities.Nobody on Earth knows the price of peace better than a soldier.War is politics taken further and some men love it and you cant always blame them tis there ruffianly nature which is ancient,poor brutish man,shell shocked and gas pocked.Who return to their wives who wonder why they are not glad they are alive,who feel so damn guilty for surviving,poor footslogger you can never tell you children this story,poor lancaster pilot you will learn a New meaning to the word repression.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Eddie Lear ]


From: Port Colborne, Ont | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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Babbler # 387

posted 18 July 2001 04:15 AM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Eddie, if I may make a suggestion, could you please type two spaces after the period of your sentences to divide them up better. It would make them easier to read.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
singhjm
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posted 18 July 2001 04:24 PM      Profile for singhjm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This thread has obviously strayed completely off topic.
Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Liam McCarthy
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posted 18 July 2001 05:14 PM      Profile for Liam McCarthy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know about that. The Liberals have a "nazi" like hold on federal government. Atlantic Canadians are feeling the pain of being a minority under such a regime. Some feel that despite the similarities between the federal Liberal party and the nazis of old (mistreatment of minorities and deception), we shouldn't use the term as it may be offensive to some readers. Some women in particular are offended by the usage of this term because it is often used by trollish men to inhibit feminist thought. How's that for spin?
From: Windsor, Ont. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 18 July 2001 05:21 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the Great Gods of Chretien, We're right back in there, Liam.
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ergotist
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posted 07 August 2001 03:35 PM      Profile for ergotist   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
dearest skdadl ... well you are a charmer. and i mean that. my remarks posted in response to the discussion of Harris' latest dribbling of centrist spittle on his chin - (y'know the dribble i mean - about what a lot of whiny, lotto winning, welfare sucking bums there are down east...)might give you just the kind of spanking you're looking for. i did it because i love you.
as far as the particular question o so musically posed by the Clash : "Should (we) stay or should (we) go now?...", it must be asked more broadly and every single citizen of this country ought to give some serious soul searching thought to an answer. Do we still - all of us - believe in the pursuit of common fairness? equal treatment? equal access? The only thing that can reasonably drive a clunker like Canadian Federalism is an unswerving commitment to including ALL citizens in nation building, wherever and whomever they may be. Play the blame-game and everybody loses. We cannot rest our arses on tiny/lazy minded stereotypes about ANYBODY. We MUST learn about each other from each other AND we must learn how to SHARE. HOWEVER... if a nationwide commitment to founding principles has long been lost and everyone would rather insist "what's theirs is theirs and if you don't have any it's because you're lazy and deserve to suffer" than why should we prolong the agony? We might just as well accept that it's all been a grand adventure and even a sincere effort once in awhile but, dammit, people are inherently selfish and the earth is flat so stay away from the horizon or you'll fall off. We'll each negotiate our way out, build barbed wire fences where there were once just lines drawn on the map, embrace the power of our own jurisdictional authority, unbounded by any sense of obligation to anyone else and t'hell with SHARING a dream. Iceland is pretty wee, all covered with rock and lichen and they do just fine ... fish or cut bait.

From: RaT World | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged

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