babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » walking the talk   » environmental justice   » A different kind of climate politics is needed

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: A different kind of climate politics is needed
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 16 January 2008 07:43 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
To confront politicians and policy makers effectively, the green movement needs to advance its own People’s Agenda on Climate Change, a program that stresses both reducing emissions in Canada and advancing climate justice around the world.

blah, blah, blah

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 27 January 2008 07:24 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

blah, blah, blah

I don't know what the meaning of your comment is. If it's intended to be dismissive of the writer, it's badly misplaced.

Here's the first part of a speech he gave in Vancouver last week:

How to Avoid Action on Climate Change

quote:
Canadians are known for being modest and self-effacing. We don’t brag much, and sometimes we seem to have an inferiority complex, a belief that we do okay, but we seldom excel.

Last month, diplomats and politicians and scientists from all over the world met in Bali, in Indonesia, to discuss what to do about climate change. As I followed the Bali discussions, I realized that there is one area in which Canada is truly a world leader. So I decided to devote my talk today to this Canadian success story.

Yes, the world can watch and learn from Canada, because if there is one thing that Canadian politicians and business leaders do well, it is this.

They can teach the world how to avoid action on climate change.

This is an important issue for politicians and corporate executives, because they face a big problem.

On one hand, the scientific consensus is overwhelming: global warming is real, and its consequences may be catastrophic. Voters and customers view climate change as a serious problem requiring decisive action, and they might not vote for politicians who don’t do anything, and might stop buying from the companies that are causing the problem.

So action seems to be necessary.

But on the other hand, the politicians and corporations have a vested interest in the oil, gas and coal industries. If they aren’t directly connected to them then they are connected to companies and industries that depend on oil and gas and coal.

What’s more, Canada’s political and economic elites sincerely believe that they live in the best of all possible societies. Obviously a social order that made them rich, that put them on top, must be perfect. So it is obviously wrong, perhaps even evil, to take any action that might lead to substantial change in that social order.

The solution is to appear very concerned and thoughtful, while actually doing as little as possible. Done properly, that will reassure voters and customers, without doing anything that might disturb corporate profits.

Canadian politicians and business leaders are world-class masters at this.

There are many ways to avoid action on climate change, and I don’t have time to discuss all of them all today. I’ll focus on seven that really stand out….



Read on

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 27 January 2008 08:18 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was intended to be dismissive. The speech you linked to appears to be refreshingly honest. But if we are to remain honest, let's acknowledge that there is no "green movement".

Environmentalists are either committed to the defeatist non-partisan approach that precludes meaningful political dialogue and action, or they are not politically engaged at all believing the best approach is "by example", or they are divided along the partisan lines of politics that renders whatever clout they could potentially deliver divided and entirely ineffective.

There is a reason why politicians and businesses can "appear very concerned and thoughtful, while actually doing as little as possible." Because environmentalists, who also say the climate is the greatest threat facing human kind, are politically irrelevant.

They are busy building empires, being careful not to offend anyone, couching language as not to preclude hope that God or science or a cowboy in a white hat will ride to our rescue, or taking aim at each other across artificial political lines.

If the civil rights movement was as effective as the so-called green movement, schools and neighbourhoods would still be segregated and Barack Obama would be entering convention centres through the "blacks only" entrance.

[ 27 January 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 27 January 2008 08:22 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
It was intended to be dismissive. The speech you linked to appears to be refreshingly honest. But if we are to remain honest, let's acknowledge that there is no "green movement".

Environmentalists are either committed to the defeatist non-partisan approach that precludes meaningful political dialogue and action, or they are not politically engaged at all believing the best approach is "by example", or they are divided along the partisan lines of politics that renders whatever clout they could potentially deliver divided and entirely ineffective.

There is a reason why politicians and businesses can "appear very concerned and thoughtful, while actually doing as little as possible." Because environmentalists, who also say the climate is the greatest threat facing human kind, are politically irrelevant.

They are busy building empires, being careful not to offend anyone, couching language as not to preclude hope that God or science or a cowboy in a white hat will ride to our rescue, or taking aim at each other across artificial political lines.

If the civil rights movement was as effective as the so-called green movement, schools and neighbourhoods would still be segregated and Barack Obama would be entering convention centres through the "blacks only" entrance.

[ 27 January 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


So, what's your solution?


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 27 January 2008 08:30 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FM, you obviously read neither of the two items you and I linked to above.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 27 January 2008 08:43 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
FM, you obviously read neither of the two items you and I linked to above.

I don't know what FM did or didn't do, but I read it.

I thought the "Shifting the Blame" comment is bullshit. What individuals do and desire is critical.

I think gasoline should be very highly taxed to discourage consumption. But, to hear average janes and joes talk, they want cheaper gasoline. So, if average janes and joes can't be convinced that it makes environmental sense to tax gasoline, how in the hell will politicians pass legislation that will do that?

We can't even get a fucking nickel tax passed in Minnesota on gasoline. People scream bloody murder.

So, individuals have to be convinced that it makes sense to raise the gasoline tax...and significantly...else, it will never happen.

We don't live in dictatorships...at least not here in Canada or the US.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 27 January 2008 08:47 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
FM, you obviously read neither of the two items you and I linked to above.

I have. Have you? Let's return to the one I linked to for a moment, and the conclusion: "But Bali may also be remembered as the beginning point for a revitalized global movement for climate action and climate justice."

Again, there is no movement to revitalize. If I missed something, please point it out.

quote:
So, what's your solution?

Build a real movement. How? Begin by telling the truth. And the truth is we are facing a global scale ecological catastrophe and climate change is only one part of that. And quit peddling "hope". Promote action instead. And environmental groups need to re-organize themselves for political action. They need to ask themselves if their mission is to raise awareness and bring about change or to maintain charitable status and keep the bucks rolling in from Shell and Wal-Mart.

[ 27 January 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 27 January 2008 08:54 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Build a real movement. How? Begin by telling the truth. And the truth is we are facing a global scale ecological catastrophe and climate change is only one part of that. And quit peddling "hope". Promote action instead. And environmental groups need to re-organize themselves for political action. They need to ask themselves if their mission is to raise awareness and bring about change or to maintain charitable status and keep the bucks rolling in from Shell and Wal-Mart.
And this is exactly what the message is of the writer whom you so cavalierly dismissed!

You described the speech as "refreshingly honest"!! Please cite an example of where the author has been anything other than honest elsewhere. The speech is a blistering indictment of capitalist foot-dragging and greenwashing and a call for a green-red movement to fight for real action. What part of that do you find "refreshingly honest"?

[ 27 January 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 27 January 2008 09:03 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To begin, my post was about the article posted here on rabble.ca, not the speech. The speech I find much better.

If I were to critique the speech at all, I would argue the elephant in the room is not the tar sands, but modern human living patterns that make fossil fuels and alternatives such as the tar sands and bio-fuels necessary.


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
bliter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14536

posted 27 January 2008 12:08 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sven:

quote:
...So, if average janes and joes can't be convinced that it makes environmental sense to tax gasoline, how in the hell will politicians pass legislation that will do that?

This Mr. Average does not want to see further gouging benefiting the oil industry and complicit government.

Many of us "average" already drive economical vehicles and plan our trips to drive less. My
Pontiac Firefly is presently sitting, uninsured, as I've been cycling in some pretty poopy weather.
I hope to leave the car off the road for a month, but may exceed that.

On the Tar Sands: The Globe and Mail (Saturday - Focus) A feature article. It ain't pretty. Ghastly images. If sold out, worth visiting your re-cycling bins to get a copy.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca