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» babble   » walking the talk   » environmental justice   » 35mpg by 2020 is BS. We can do better.

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Author Topic: 35mpg by 2020 is BS. We can do better.
bliter
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posted 01 December 2007 08:18 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By 2020 many Chinese, who today get around only on foot and bicycle, will be two-car families - and why shouldn't they be?

But what will this do for world oil demand?

The URL feature is a good thing...

[ 14 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Noah_Scape
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Babbler # 14667

posted 04 December 2007 11:28 AM      Profile for Noah_Scape     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, for sure it would be easy to produce cars and light trucks that get 35mpg. My 1967 Volvo got 32MPG... and had 140 HP too!!

Especially if there were some incentives to produce hybrids or the Volt and stop making regular internal combustion engines altogether. Any such engine made today will still be spewing it's high amounts of greenhouse gases in 2027 or beyond...

Customers could 'drive the changes' by refusing to buy any new cars that do not get high mileage,and have reduced emissions, etc. The manufacturers will follow in quick step if consumers were more demanding.

Personally, I am holding out for an electric car like the Volt or the Tesla Roadster, when prices come down a bit. Until then, I am only occaisionally using my little Hyundai which uses 7L/100 km [which is close to 35 mpg?].

2020 is wayyyyyyy too late for such a small improvement in efficiency.


From: B.C. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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Babbler # 2912

posted 04 December 2007 11:36 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Old vehicles rock. I saw the tail-end of some show on tv where they totally fixed up a 1965 VW Microbus and put a Prius engine in it. Waycool.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
bliter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14536

posted 04 December 2007 02:39 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wiz,

Googled but couldn't find. Sounds like a great conversion. Imagine that Microbus roof also as a photo-voltaic collector. It could be returning quite a charge to the batteries.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4020

posted 04 December 2007 03:34 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hm, really not getting it...have to start thinking of the private automobile as a passing fashion, at least in the way its currently used. It's part of a greater world picture which is toast. Space will collapse to a more local level, the long daily commute to work is over, etc. There will be comprehensive transportation infrastructure but the current model will be regarded as bloated, ridiculous and unnecessary. Forget highways. Forget two car garages, forget using a ton or more of refined steel to do something Nature gave you legs for. It's over. When there's no oil - or before that, when the price hits 2, 3, 400/barrel - it doesn't matter whether its 35 mpg or 350 mpg.

At some point in the FORESEEABLE future, it's over. There will be a lot of bitter tears, and legions of folk who will never really adjust. Like the shift to metric. But that's what we're looking at, if we can drop the illusions for a moment. It took a century to burn through the first 50% of global reserves; with the east industrialized, we'll do the last in less than half the time, it's not rocket science.


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 04 December 2007 04:01 PM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So what you're saying is, if I want to get a 1973 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible, the time to get it is now. Before Captain Planet and the Planeteers erode our rights to personal property. Groovy advice, dude. 50 watts per channel.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
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posted 04 December 2007 04:24 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard of Socialism:
So what you're saying is, if I want to get a 1973 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible, the time to get it is now. Before Captain Planet and the Planeteers erode our rights to personal property. Groovy advice, dude. 50 watts per channel.

Don't see a LOT of horse and buggies on the streets these days; or steam engines. There will be clubs of car enthusiasts who lovingly maintain and restore their old treasures and get together and have their rallies, like people here venerate their two-stroke Trabants; harmless fun, go for it. Because the paradigm will have shifted, that's all.

The 'rights to personal property' argument - I dunno, maybe you missed this thing about how global warming is connected to anthropogenic carbon emissions and how the west is responsible for most of it and how if everybody enjoyed the same 'right' it all goes to shit? Still waiting for the shoe to drop...


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
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posted 04 December 2007 04:59 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Electric car, ZENN, not quite legally for sale in Canada yet.
Anybody see this on Rick Mercer?

From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 04 December 2007 05:45 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So if everyone gave up their gasers or diesels for a ZENN car what effect would that have on the demand for electricity? And where would all that electricity come from?

Merowe is right, in the end you can't dig yourself out of a hole.


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
bliter
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posted 04 December 2007 08:48 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow! Such negativity. Do we just wring our hands and say that nothing can be done? That's total BS.

Of course, a massive switch to electric vehicles would not happen overnight. And the clean electricity can be produced to power them.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
bliter
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Babbler # 14536

posted 14 December 2007 06:19 AM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought we had a thread on the GM Volt but couldn't find it. After the negativity expressed here, came upon this:

My kingdom for less sidescroll

It's particularly worth noting Toshiba's revolutionary battery referred to elsewhere. (Incredible boost...}

[ 14 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 14 December 2007 06:41 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TAT?
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
bliter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14536

posted 14 December 2007 09:11 AM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is somebody around here dialogue-challenged?

quote:
35mpg by 2020 is BS. We can do better. By remind (Post # 12)
TAT?
bc, alberta, saskatchewan BC NDP dream candidates By remind (Post # 97)
tat

From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 14 December 2007 09:17 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bliter:
Is somebody around here dialogue-challenged?

TAT is short for Today's Active Topics which becomes difficult to read when someone's post creates sidescroll and that generally results in someone else (and sometimes me) posting to the same thread to restore the normal format. Remind was obviously trying to find the thread that was causing the sidescroll.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
bliter
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Babbler # 14536

posted 14 December 2007 11:20 AM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, pogge. Yes I'm familiar with TAT. I think simply that "Sidescroll" might have served better.

How great it would be if we could get back on topic.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged

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