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Author Topic: Protestors demand location of unmarked Aboriginal children's graves
unionist
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posted 10 March 2008 08:58 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Protesters storm church in bid to learn fate of aboriginal children

quote:
Demonstrators protested inside a Toronto church yesterday to raise awareness about the aboriginal children that they say disappeared from Canada's residential school system between 1840 and 1940.

The protesters have demanded that the federal government and leaders of several churches reveal the locations of unmarked graves where tens of thousands of children were buried near residential schools.

[...]

The protesters say they will hold more demonstrations at Anglican, Catholic and United churches across the country until their demands are met and more is known about victims of residential schools.

The federal government estimates as many as 100,000 children attended residential schools, which have long been assailed as hotbeds of physical and sexual abuse and other human rights violations.



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Boom Boom
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posted 10 March 2008 09:42 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
excerpt from above link:

"Participation from the Catholic Church, which operated about 70 per cent of the schools jointly with the federal government, had been uncertain until the announcement."

I hope the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa are the next target for this group's protest, as well as Catholic churches.


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unionist
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posted 17 March 2008 02:53 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aboriginal demonstrators are met with "hissing church-goers" and police called by church officials:

Protest over native school victims disrupts worship

quote:
A small but determined group of protesters interrupted Palm Sunday services at St. Michael's Cathedral yesterday to demand national religious institutions disclose the burial sites of children who died at Indian residential schools.

"We come with heavy hearts because the spirits and bodies of more than 50,000 innocent aboriginal children who were abducted from their homes ... did not survive the tortures inflicted upon them during a 100-year reign of terror," said Carrie Lester, 47, reading from a prepared statement. ...

"This not the place for this," hissed some church-goers during Lester's three-minute speech that referenced beatings, forced abortion and starvation.

"Please ignore them," said a St. Michael's staffer as he called police on a cell phone.


Very nice. But what they really want is for the genocide of the Indigenous people to be ignored. That won't happen.

[ 17 March 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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remind
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posted 17 March 2008 03:07 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, unionist, amazing courage and this is to the person who hissed that the protest was not the place for it; "of course it was the place for it!"
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unionist
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posted 18 March 2008 05:02 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For your information, the church that called the cops on the Aboriginal demonstrators and whose congregants "hissed" at them is not just any old "house of God". It is the Roman Catholic cathedral of Toronto, home of the largest English Catholic archdiocese in Canada. In case anyone is in Toronto and wants to visit or picket it, it is located at 200 Church Street (near Ryerson, actually). Here is a mug shot:


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Makwa
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posted 18 March 2008 09:03 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While I completely support the goals of the protesters, I disagree with their decision to confront people by gaining access to the pulpit of their church. I believe that all peoples' sacred spaces should be free for their particular form of worship.
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unionist
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posted 18 March 2008 09:30 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
I believe that all peoples' sacred spaces should be free for their particular form of worship.

Trouble is, Makwa, didn't some settler churches declare all of the Americas a "sacred space" for "their particular form of worship"?


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Makwa
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posted 18 March 2008 11:16 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Trouble is, Makwa, didn't some settler churches declare all of the Americas a "sacred space" for "their particular form of worship"?
Can't tell you unionist - do you have a link to such a claim?

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remind
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posted 20 March 2008 06:07 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is not on topic per se, but seeing as how I don't have a link, because there appears to be a news shut down on it, I will put it here.

From information told to me, there have been eviction and ownership of land papers served on many churches in Vancouver area by a FN band. A fact that is being kept quiet in the media.


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oldgoat
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posted 20 March 2008 06:20 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
While I completely support the goals of the protesters, I disagree with their decision to confront people by gaining access to the pulpit of their church. I believe that all peoples' sacred spaces should be free for their particular form of worship.

I take your point Makwa, and appreciate that your compass points you toward the moral high road, but if churches had stayed as pure places of worship they wouldn't be facing these issues. The christian churches have historically, and still do, operate as agents of government policy and try to frame government policy. They have always tried to have it both ways. As well as being congregations of the spiritual like-minded they partnered with the government in policies which led to this sad state. Obviously I don't need to tell you that, but as a lapsed Catholic, I'll say that we sullied our own pulpit a very very long time ago.


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unionist
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posted 20 March 2008 06:32 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would have thought that Roman Catholic congregants would have opened their doors and their hearts to a few Aboriginal demonstrators wishing to make a small statement in their church for the first time in 500 years of oppression. I would have thought their faith would be deep and broad enough to countenance such a fleeting interruption of their complacent composure.

Better yet, they might have engaged their victims in some conversation - perhaps shown compassion, perhaps actually told them where the dead children are buried - rather than calling the police to restore the tranquillity of their discourse with "God".


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oldgoat
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posted 20 March 2008 06:38 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And exactly what optimism-enhancing drugs would you have been smoking when you would have thought these things.

I would have thought that the Catholic church, when faced with a percieved threat to it's comfortable order and routine would have, in a reflexive and knee jerk reaction do what it has been doing for centuries; lie, obfuscate, and in extremis, call in the Swiss Guard, oops , I mean Toronto Police.

Hey! I would have been right!


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Makwa
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posted 20 March 2008 10:29 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
if churches had stayed as pure places of worship they wouldn't be facing these issues. The christian churches have historically, and still do, operate as agents of government policy and try to frame government policy.
Given my particular experience within the policy aspects of churches, as a 'stolen' child of the 60s I am more than familiar with the bureacratic role of the churches as a tool of white european capitalist oppression. Nonetheless, I must grant any sacred institution their space for reflection and consecration. The major religious institutions were complicit in the ongoing work of genocide alongside with government and academia. However, as a spiritual believing person of the first nations, I must grant space for my enemy to pray to her/his god, and to allow them the opportunity to discover truth within their particular understanding.

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UrsaMinor
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posted 20 March 2008 10:57 AM      Profile for UrsaMinor     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As a First Nation person, I agree with Makwa. A church service is not the place to be doing a protest. Outside the church service maybe.

I recently talked to an Elder who said there is nothing wrong with fighting for your nation to the detriment of another nation. That should be expected as it is 'good' and 'natural' for people to want more for their children. As such, First Nation problems with the non-Aboriginal government isn't that they are 'evil' (they aren't)... but that they carry out their goals in a disrespectful manner. Even in war... there should be respect.


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unionist
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posted 23 March 2008 09:40 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This time the protestors stayed outside the church - but the holy fathers and the police still found someone to throw out:

Two parishioners kicked out of church for protesting to the priest

quote:
The tears of two Catholic Métis sisters spilled onto the sidewalk outside Vancouver's Holy Rosary Cathedral today after they were yanked out of mass by police for objecting to a statement read by the priest.

Ellen and Tatyana Dobrowolski, who were removed but not arrested, said they made plans to attend the Sunday Easter Mass at the cathedral without prior knowledge of a scheduled native protest that was under way when they arrived. ...

More than a dozen aboriginal protesters stood outside the cathedral beating drums and chanting "shame! shame!" and loudly calling the parishioners "murderers." ...

Inside the church Rev. Glenn Dion, the rector of Holy Rosary, was delivering a message from Vancouver Archbishop Raymond Roussin that was repeated at Easter masses throughout the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Vancouver. ...

"Mr. Annett . . . has spread false information and has been making bizarre allegations about genocide against natives for many years," Roussin's letter read.

The letter also said the Squamish Nation issued a statement last week saying Annett does not, as he claims, represent them.

That prompted Ellen and Tatyana Dobrowolski to stand up, uninvited, and address the reverend in front of the entire congregation.

"I said, 'Excuse me . . . discrediting the protesters is not deleting the truth,'" said Ellen after being escorted out by police, who were on site in apprehension of a disturbance caused by the protest.

Ellen claimed neither she nor her sister, who also made disparaging remarks during the priest's statement, are affiliated with Annett's group, and that she takes First Nations studies at Simon Fraser University.

"It was infuriating," she said. "Obviously they can't deny what happened, and so they tried to discredit the protests.


Fascinating. The Catholic priests used the occasion of Mass to read a political denunciation of the protestors - and when two of their own parishioners got up to object, they were thrown out by police.

It appears that these priests were not using their church for "reflection and consecration".

[ 23 March 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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Makwa
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posted 24 March 2008 05:48 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
It appears that these priests were not using their church for "reflection and consecration".
So it would seems. How infuriating. I would agree that if church officials feel it appropriate to broadcast their propoganda, I have no objection to protestors or others answering them in kind during the service.

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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 08:04 AM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is another perspective on this story.

quote:
In fact, only when the Squamish Nation issued a statement condemning the church occupations and declaring that Annett did not represent them did the media even suggest his claims might warrant more scrutiny.

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unionist
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posted 24 March 2008 08:15 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Loretta:
There is another perspective on this story.

Yeah, that perspective is signed by Paul Schratz, "communications director of the Archdiocese of Vancouver".

Just to keep it in perspective.


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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 08:34 AM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It would be important to hear from the people of the Squamish Nation themselves but I don't see anything on their website.

Here's what the United Church of Canada says.

I'm aware that these references are considered biased but then again, in my view, it's legitimate to consider all material.

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: Loretta ]


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unionist
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posted 24 March 2008 08:43 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to be clear, I have no idea or opinion as to whether this organization's specific claims and demands are well-founded.

I do have a serious problem with churches (and anyone) who have committed such crimes against the Indigenous population over the centuries using the police to suppress entirely peaceful protests.

I don't see that point addressed in either of the links you provided, Loretta.


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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 08:52 AM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Without knowing more, I think that the removal of the two sisters from the church was unfair and unnecessary. I also think that addressing the conflict from the pulpit was not OK.

I also think that it's legitimate to investigate the claims that are being made. The newspaper story I quoted said these claims have been investigated by police and the United Church information says that their archives are open to investigation, research and scrutiny. What else would you suggest?

I have heard enough about Kevin Annett himself to be suspicious of him, though.


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unionist
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posted 24 March 2008 09:04 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Loretta:
The newspaper story I quoted said these claims have been investigated by police and the United Church information says that their archives are open to investigation, research and scrutiny. What else would you suggest?

I thought the United Church's response was pretty measured and sounded sincere.

I have seen nothing similar from the Catholic Church, except for their use of the police in Toronto and Vancouver.

quote:
I have heard enough about Kevin Annett himself to be suspicious of him, though.

I know nothing about him. I object to a church using police to quell a peaceful protest by First Peoples - even if those people are not following all the diplomatic niceties or even if some of their claims are mistaken. I think the irony is too much to take.


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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 09:11 AM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some background from the United Church of Canada on Kevin Annett.
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Makwa
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posted 24 March 2008 10:00 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems to me that Mr. Annett is making many people very uncomfortable by uncovering the real history of direct genocide as enacted towards the first peoples. I applaud him unconditionally. I still argue that there is a space and a place to protest, yet, I cannot deny the truth that Mr. Anett has uncovered. This genocidal activity demands justice and demands activity from such as myself.

I will ask those who are involved to contact me through PM or otherwise to advise me how to get involved, and to make my voice heard if I feel a particular action is inappropriate.


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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 10:46 AM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would agree that there are likely a lot of stories of wrong-doing, brutality and criminal activity that haven't been told.

quote:
It seems to me that Mr. Annett is making many people very uncomfortable by uncovering the real history of direct genocide as enacted towards the first peoples.

Perhaps many people are uncomfortable because he isn't the best person to bring forward these issues. If the United Church experience of him is accurately described on their website, the people who are trusting him with their stories and pain may suffer more in the end.

That's not to say that they aren't allowed to make their own call about who they follow and how they go about it but, hopefully, they are aware of the controversy surrounding Kevin Annett's history (which, in the case of the United Church, took place in the mid-1990s) if they are taking up with him.


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Makwa
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posted 24 March 2008 10:50 AM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Perhaps many people are uncomfortable because he isn't the best person to bring forward these issues. If the United Church experience of him is accurately described on their website, the people who are trusting him with their stories and pain may suffer more in the end.[/QB]
Now that you have brought this forward, surely you must substantiate this. This is very distressing.

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Michelle
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posted 24 March 2008 11:21 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The link is in a previous post of Loretta's, to the UC statement.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 24 March 2008 02:58 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
The link is in a previous post of Loretta's, to the UC statement.
quote:
Former students have told the church that the distortion and misrepresentation of facts by Mr. Annett does not serve the interests of the survivors of the residential school system nor their families. In fact, it undermines the efforts made by all parties to face the ugly realities of the residential school system and to work toward understanding, healing, and reconciliation. ...

The United Church recognizes the tragic reality that, over the course of the history of residential schools, Native children died as a result of illness, disease, or accident, a fact undoubtedly exacerbated by the institutional setting and inadequate funding.


This response is sickening. First, they appropriate the 'voices' of survivors to rationalize their genocidal activities. Secondly they deny the actions of those they had previously hired in the active abuse, rape and murder of the children under their control. I am completely and absolutely revolted by this statement. Fuck their so-called 'truth and reconciliation'.

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Loretta
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posted 24 March 2008 05:50 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In 1997 the General Council [of the United Church of Canada] committed the church to a journey of repentance in relation to its role in the residential schools system. In 1998, the General Council Executive formally apologized for its complicity in the system. It did so because the church had heard the stories of suffering wrought by the separation of children from communities and families, the suppression of culture and spirituality and cases of sexual and physical abuse which occurred in many residential schools.

I'm not sure if this page addresses your concerns.

What would be your idea of resolution or reconciliation, Makwa? Or, do you think it's possible?

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: Loretta ]


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Makwa
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posted 24 March 2008 10:04 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Loretta:
What would be your idea of resolution or reconciliation, Makwa? Or, do you think it's possible?
My first impulse is to consider reconciliation impossible, but I should have to think about it some more. Perhaps others' thoughts on this might be of help.

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remind
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posted 25 March 2008 06:30 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The UCC web pages are confusing, and what was linked as a FN response to the 1st apology, does not appear where it says it is.

IMV, reconciliation, and resolution, must be individually determined by those who had the grievous harm done to them, in their own time and space. The churches can only show their willingness to accept and understand what is coming to them, by way of FN truths and further to facilitate ALL demands of the FN peoples to have their needs met.


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FRDToronto
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posted 05 April 2008 05:11 PM      Profile for FRDToronto   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Truth About the “Truth and Reconciliation Commission”

• Commissioners will be nominated by government, church, police and AFN officials, and must have the Prime Minister’s approval. Investigators will then be appointed by the Commissioners.

• Survivors may be reluctant to come forward and tell their stories if they believe that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is biased in favour of the government and the churches.

• It has no power to subpoena records that are critical to revealing the truth.

• The mandate does not include an investigation into any criminal matters even though the churches have acknowledged that criminal offences have occurred. Churches have been promised immunity from prosecution.

• The Commission will not address the issue of systematic genocide.

• All burial sites may not be identified.

• The commission will hear the stories of survivors and may provide monetary compensation… this does not address the “healing” of survivors nor second and third generational impact issues.

• The focus is on physical and sexual abuse and pays less attention to the devastating psychological trauma and long-term effects.

• The approach seems to be that an apology and a bit of pocket money to survivors will make amends (reconciliation).


Canada needs a Non-Governmental Public Inquiry with International Observers
to reveal the whole truth about Genocide in Canada’s Indian Residential Schools.


• Sign the petition at www.hiddenfromhistory.org.
• See the award-winning film online “Unrepentant” by Kevin Annett, also at www.hiddenfromhistory.org.
• Contact Friends and Relatives of the Disappeared-Toronto at FRDToronto@yahoo.ca.


*Source: http://www.irsr-rqpi.gc.ca/content/pdf/english/TRCPresentation_en.pdf


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FRDToronto
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posted 05 April 2008 05:13 PM      Profile for FRDToronto   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
18 March, 2008
4:00 pm PST

MEDIA ADVISORY

Kevin Annett replies to media claims of "disruption" of church service in Vancouver and the statement of Bill Williams of the Squamish nation

Vancouver, Squamish Nation territory:

In response to claims that our action last Sunday "disrupted" services at Holy Rosary cathedral, and that an element of the Squamish band leadership disagrees with our action, I wish to make the following statement:

1. At no time have I claimed or attempted to "speak for the Squamish nation", as Squamish band chief Bill Williams has alleged. In participating in the memorial vigil at Holy Rosary Cathedral last Sunday, March 16, I have spoken and acted solely under the authority of hereditary Squamish Chief Kiapilano and not as a spokesperson for the Squamish Nation. My aim was and is to speak to my own Euro-Canadian culture and its churches, and to urge them to take responsibility for the deaths of chidlren in their Indian residential schools.

2. Despite the distorted portrayal of our action by some media as a "disruption" of the mass at Holy Rosary, in reality our action was peaceful, respectful, and an integrated part of the service itself following a verbal welcoming of us by presiding priest Rev. Glen Dion. Lasting barely ten minutes, our action consisted of a silent procession to the front of the church, where we were welcomed by Rev. Dion and where we stood in silent prayer. We then left the church sanctuary, led by aboriginal elders and Chief Kiapilano, at which point the entire congregation stood as we passed. At no time did we slow the progression of the mass or interrupt its normal functioning. Further, at no point prior to or during our action did police or church staff interfere with our action, or warn us not to enter the church sanctuary.

3. We welcome the public discussion generated by our action, which was taken solely because of the refusal of Archbishop Raymond Roussin of Holy Rosary Cathedral to answer our Letter of January 13, 2008, asking him to help identify the burial sites of children who died in local Catholic Indian Residential Schools. To resolve this issue amicably, we are willing to meet with Archbishop Roussin at any time to discuss our concerns. Failing such a meeting, our actions will continue. We invite all aboriginal people and members of the Squamish Nation, along with Chief Bill Williams, to join us in this effort to bring home the children who died in Indian residential Schools, and to bring to justice those persons responsible for their deaths.

Kevin D. Annett (Eagle Strong Voice)
Friends and Relatives of the Disappeared (National Committee)

253 B East Hastings St.
Vancouver, BC
V6A 1P4
ph: 1-888-265-1007
email: hiddenfromhistory@yahoo.ca

From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
FRDToronto
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posted 05 April 2008 05:14 PM      Profile for FRDToronto   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Taking Action - What You Can Do:

1. Educate Yourself and Others -

a) Order and distribute our book Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust and our film UNREPENTANT to libraries, colleges and the media in your community - UNREPENTANT can be ordered through our Commission (below) and view at google video.

b) Hold a public screening of UNREPENTANT in your community and invite Kevin Annett to come and speak at the event.

c) Order educational material and leaflets from our Truth Commission (Education Kit #1), and distribute them outside Catholic, Anglican and United Churches on
Sunday mornings (see contact info below)

2. Refuse to Cooperate with Genocidal Institutions -

a) Boycott the Catholic, Anglican and United Church of Canada - Refuse to attend their services or rent their facilities, or if you do attend, withhold from
them all donations, tithings and bequests. (See the sample Declaration of Conscience form below)

b) Withhold all tax payments to the government of Canada.

c) Support an international boycott of Canadian tourism and goods, and a boycott of the 2010 Olympics in British Columbia.

d) Write to your local M.P. and to Revenue Canada and demand that the charitable tax-exempt status of the Catholic, Anglican and United Church of Canada be revoked.

3. Take Direct Action -

a) Hold protests, memorial vigils and civil disobedience actions at these churches and government facilities, demanding to know where the deceased residential school children are buried, and calling for their return to their families for a proper burial, and for a surrender of those persons responsible for their deaths.

b) Publicly identify and perform citizens' arrests on those persons responsible for crimes against native people and the land.

c) Create indigenous and popular courts of justice where the perpetrators of murder and other crimes against our people and the land can be tried and sentenced.

4. Support our efforts to launch a full, non-governmental inquiry into genocide in Canadian Indian residential schools -

a) Endorse our call for an international Tribunal into Genocide in Canada.

b) Organize a local chapter of our Truth Commission in your community and formally affiliate yourself and your organization with our Commission.

5. Help us to research and document the evidence of genocide in Canada -

a) Interview residential school survivors in your community, record their stories, and help create local video libraries containing this evidence.

b) Research local archives and government and church records for the evidence of crimes in residential schools and hospitals across Canada.

c) Organize academic and public conferences on the theme of genocide in Canada.

5. Send us a donation, which will be used to produce
our books and film and fund our research and travel costs -

To send donations, see the Paypal link on this website, or send a cheque or money order made out to Lori O'Rorke to - 260 Kennedy St., Nanaimo, B.C. Canada V9R 2H8.

To order our books, film and other material, and to arrange to work with us, contact:

The Truth Commission into Genocide in Canada
c/o 260 Kennedy St.
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada V9R 2H8
ph: 250-753-3345 or 1-888-265-1007
email: hiddenfromhistory@yahoo.ca OR kevin_annett@hotmail.com
website: www.hiddenfromhistory.org

......................................................................................................................
Sample Declaration of Conscience Form -
To be submitted to the Catholic, Anglican and United Church of Canada
Pledge of Conscience
I, the undersigned, cannot in good conscience contribute money to this church until it returns the remains of the children who died under its care, in Indian Residential Schools and hospitals, and fully discloses their fate and cause of death.
Until this occurs, I am refraining from financially supporting this church. I will not make any form of donation or pledge to this church, nor will I rent your facilities. I will urge others to conduct a similar boycott of your institution.

____________ _________ _________
Name
____________ _________ _________
Date


From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 27 October 2008 07:27 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Incredible... finally, some federal research seems to be in the works, and the G&M has obtained documents which haven't been made public:


Hunt begins for long-missing students: Neglected graves probed in renewed effort to solve mystery of aboriginal children's fates

quote:
The federal government is mapping burial sites at former residential schools as researchers try to identify how many of the estimated thousands of native children who went missing from the schools are buried in unmarked or anonymous graves.

Cemeteries scattered across Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario have been identified by researchers. Some of the graves have single white wooden crosses bearing no name. Others do not include even a cross. ...

Native elders have for decades provided anecdotal evidence that schoolchildren died and their fellow students were forced to bury them.


Please read the whole article.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681

posted 27 October 2008 08:33 AM      Profile for TVParkdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
My first impulse is to consider reconciliation impossible, but I should have to think about it some more. Perhaps others' thoughts on this might be of help.

Ahnee/Greetings Cousin,

Reconciliation IS impossible at this juncture.

In order to "reconciliate" [now there's a word!] we have to look at how this can happen.

    1) There must be admission of wrongdoing. and the understanding of the full ramifications of that wrongdoing.
    2) The abused must be *asked* what s/he/they'd accept as recompense or restitution. This must be agreed upon in a reasonable time frame.
    3) The above agreement between abuser and abused must be enacted as agreed and in good faith within the specified time frames
    4) There must be assurance from the abuser that such actions will never take place again. The oppressor must put the systems/rules/guidelines into place so that there is no recurrence of that abuse.

Those in fact, are based on the original guidelines of most Aboriginal justice systems.

None of that has happened.


From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 27 October 2008 08:02 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More on this new development:

quote:
The commission examining Indian residential schools is launching a massive new research project to find out who is buried on school grounds and what happened to the young aboriginal boys and girls who left for boarding schools and never returned home.

Kimberly Phillips, a spokesperson for Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, said the expanded research has been approved by Claudette Dumont-Smith, one of the commissioners.

The “Missing Children Research Project,” as it has been named, will include “an examination of the number and cause of deaths, illnesses and disappearances of children at the residential schools as well as the location of burial sites,” Ms. Phillips said.


The sudden departure of Mr. Justice Harry LaForme doesn't seem coincidental to me:

quote:
In his resignation letter, Judge LaForme had said there was disagreement over whether the chairman can overrule the two commissioners or whether the three individuals must operate on consensus or majority rule.

Judge LaForme has also claimed that the two other commissioners disagreed with his view that reconciliation should take precedence over digging up truth from the past.


The two remaining commissioners and the AFN seem to think there is still some truth from the past to be dug up. They deserve our support.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 28 October 2008 07:10 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A vaccine to protect against T.B. was developed as early as 1905, but was not widely used until after 1945, according to Wikipedia. Other sources indicate the first sanitorium for T.B. was founded in 1896, in Canada. Relevant, because it shows that people knew how the disease spread as early as the late 1800's.

I mention this, because both articles seem to draw a distinction between deaths from T.B. and deaths from "neglect".

I do not think any distinction can be drawn.

Death by T.B. at residential schools was death by neglect. Or something even worse.

At the turn of the last century, the example of Kitchener's consentration camps utilizing cholera and dysentry to eliminate the next generation of Boer's was there for those who wanted to draw from it.

[ 28 October 2008: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681

posted 28 October 2008 08:17 PM      Profile for TVParkdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
A vaccine to protect against T.B. was developed as early as 1905, but was not widely used until after 1945, according to Wikipedia. Other sources indicate the first sanitorium for T.B. was founded in 1896, in Canada. Relevant, because it shows that people knew how the disease spread as early as the late 1800's.

I mention this, because both articles seem to draw a distinction between deaths from T.B. and deaths from "neglect".

I do not think any distinction can be drawn.

Death by T.B. at residential schools was death by neglect. Or something even worse.

At the turn of the last century, the example of Kitchener's consentration camps utilizing cholera and dysentry to eliminate the next generation of Boer's was there for those who wanted to draw from it.

[ 28 October 2008: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


It's very simple to me.

If a white upper class child was not subjected to the same treatment [say, at Oxford during that time frame]

...it is deliberate harm causing death.

On a scale this large
Genocide.


From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 28 October 2008 08:25 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Makwa:
However, as a spiritual believing person of the first nations, I must grant space for my enemy to pray to her/his god, and to allow them the opportunity to discover truth within their particular understanding.

I would also grant space for them.

What time does the next shuttle leave?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 28 October 2008 08:59 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

I would also grant space for them.

What time does the next shuttle leave?


It's too late. Those Tory and Liberal government ministers who ruled then have already gone up to the spirit in the sky. And maybe not.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
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posted 31 October 2008 08:46 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now that LaForme is gone, this Owen Young character should be dumped as well:

AFN chief defends role in residential school commission

quote:
Speaking at a fundraising event in Winnipeg, Phil Fontaine defended himself against critics who have accused him of political interference in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission process.

"We've been accused of meddling, we've been accused of political interference, we've been accused of not caring about the survivors. Well, in fact all of that is wrong," the AFN's national chief said. ...

The commission suffered a major setback last week when its chairman, Justice Harry LaForme, resigned just six months into his mandate.

The commission's chief counsel, Owen Young, has said the judge quit last Monday because the other two commissioners favoured survivor testimony over reconciliation.

Commissioners Claudette Dumont-Smith and Jane Brewin Morley shared Fontaine's conviction that the commission should focus on telling survivors' stories, Young said.

He said: "In a nutshell, this isn't government interference, it's AFN interference," adding that tensions arising because of the two views "began to be reflected in everything between the commissioners."


[ 31 October 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
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posted 31 October 2008 10:58 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More about Owen Young HERE.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681

posted 01 November 2008 11:29 AM      Profile for TVParkdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, now I'm not the saltiest french fry in the happy meal so let me see if I can get this straight...

This commission is b*tching because Phil Fontaine, who was set up to be a leader, not by traditional Aboriginal process, but by the dominant culture's political process [the same political process that appointed this commission without the sanction of those it claims to be helping] is accused of "interfering" because he doesn't believe that process is effectively looking at the roots of the problem the commission claims to be solving.

The fact I had to type that--gives me a headache

Millions of dollars being spent on more self-congratulating, meaningless shite.

Now we have to listen to them whine about it, too.


From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 01 November 2008 11:45 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And the colonial "divide and rule" tactic means that the MSM will be able to quote some Aboriginal organizations on both sides of this issue - which has already happened - in the hope no doubt that the whole project gets shelved.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681

posted 01 November 2008 11:57 AM      Profile for TVParkdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
And the colonial "divide and rule" tactic means that the MSM will be able to quote some Aboriginal organizations on both sides of this issue - which has already happened - in the hope no doubt that the whole project gets shelved.

That may well be the result.

I am hopeful however, that pressure will keep building about finding those bodies and possibly forensic autopsies proving what residential school victims have been saying all along--that these deaths were murders.

Then, perhaps there will be some justice against the perpetrators and those agencies that were responsible for those murders.

I find it strange that if a serial killer or serial paedophile strikes, this society goes into a pressure meltdown to hunt down the perpetrator.

Yet here are massive organized pedophilia rings and murderers and this commission wants to do is "reconcile" it.

Imagine the uproar if Paul Bernardo was allowed to live free as the government claimed to be 'reconciling' with Mahaffy and French parents while it covered up the evidence.


From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 04 November 2008 10:02 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember the "satanic cult" hysteria that broke out, in what, the 80's? People seemed readily, and easily, outraged over that which did not exist.

Yet, when outrageous and true "conspiracies" surface, it gets a collective *yawn*. Like the Tuskegee Syphilis "Experiment". And, we see nothing wrong with naming a town here in Ontario after someone who engaged in biological warfare against women and children.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TVParkdale
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15681

posted 04 November 2008 11:34 AM      Profile for TVParkdale     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
Remember the "satanic cult" hysteria that broke out, in what, the 80's? People seemed readily, and easily, outraged over that which did not exist.

Yet, when outrageous and true "conspiracies" surface, it gets a collective *yawn*. Like the Tuskegee Syphilis "Experiment". And, we see nothing wrong with naming a town here in Ontario after someone who engaged in biological warfare against women and children.


Absolutely. I covered this in the "culture and violence" topic.

If the churches had nothing to hide, why not just come out with, "What bodies are you talking about?" instead of "We're not telling, nyah nyah nyah!"

Reminds me of how hard it was to get the "Butterbox Babies" story uncovered. Who cares about a bunch of abandoned babies?

Of course, Satanic cult crap is more about Euro-American/Canadians being sexually assaulted and murdered by 'anti-Christians'. Proof? Naw, let's just go bonzo on the pagans or the people who don't agree with the dominant religion.

RITUAL ABUSE:
When a church authority does the congregation's children.

Let's get it right people!


From: DaHood | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged

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