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Author Topic: Spielberg withdraws from Beijing Olympics over Darfur
Catchfire
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posted 14 February 2008 12:48 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Spielberg in Darfur snub to China
quote:
US film director Steven Spielberg has withdrawn as an artistic adviser for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.

In a statement, he accused China of not doing enough to pressure Sudan to end the "continuing human suffering" in the troubled western Darfur region.

[...]

Mr Spielberg, who had been brought in as artistic adviser for the opening and closing ceremonies of the Games, said the cause of Darfur was more important than his role.

"I find that my conscience will not allow me to continue business as usual," he said in a statement.

"At this point, my time and energy must be spent not on Olympic ceremonies, but on doing all I can to help bring an end to the unspeakable crimes against humanity that continue to be committed in Darfur."

He added: "Sudan's government bears the bulk of the responsibility for these on-going crimes, but the international community, and particularly China, should be doing more."


So, the man who thinks you can communicate the unspeakable barbarity of the holocaust with a little girl in a red dress on a canvas of black and white photography thinks China "should be doing more" in Darfur. I can't wait for Spielberg to stop making Hollywood movies until his own country starts "doing more" to stop the war in Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan (really. I can't wait).

The response: China 'regrets' Spielberg action


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 03:13 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Huh. So, he was just fine with China otherwise, but the dealbreaker for him was DARFUR?
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ohara
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posted 14 February 2008 03:33 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh my my how horrendous of Spielberg to use Darfur, a small unworthy place, as a flimsy excuse for pulling out of his olympic work.

I mean after all only hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children have to date been slaughtered by the janjaweed and many more tens of thousands awaiting a death sentence.

By anyone's measure this is without question a genocide in the making. And Spielberg's attempt to continue to shine ANY light on the brutalities being faced there ought to be widely applauded not questioned.


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Catchfire
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posted 14 February 2008 04:08 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And Spielberg's attempt to continue to shine ANY light on the brutalities being faced there ought to be widely applauded not questioned.

As long as that light is shone in the opposite direction, far from home.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Catchfire ]


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 04:14 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly. Or other places in the world.

And golly, heaven forbid anyone should question anything! Don't question! Shut up and obey! Don't think critically, let Spielberg do your thinking for you!

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 04:15 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:

By anyone's measure this is without question a genocide in the making.

You mean - by George W. Bush's measure. The U.S. decided in 2004 that this was genocide (not "genocide in the making" - that's Bush-lite talk!), even though they couldn't convince anyone else that it was other than just another murderous multi-party civil war that started with an armed rebellion in 2003 or so - a slaughter that has paled beside others (such as the wars in the Congo) for which the U.S. has no particular interventionlust at the moment.

Most importantly, the U.S. and its star diplomats (Spielberg, Clooney, etc.) have been unable to convince anyone that the world must do penance for Rwanda and march into Sudan to stop the "genocide". You know, the way U.S.-proxy Ethiopia marched into Somalia with such beneficial effects.

So spare us your sarcasm on this one, ohara. Sudan is a sovereign country, like it or not, and the OAU and the UN are involved. Steve Spielberg may think they're not doing enough - he's welcome to try to draw China into some kind of world war in the name of human rights. More power to him. He must be following the glorious example of Ronald Reagan who boycotted the Moscow Olympics.

Like Catchfire and Michelle, however, I too wonder when Spielberg will notice that his country - not China - has troops today in foreign lands who have the recent blood of hundreds of thousands, and since WWII of millions, on their hands.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:23 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it is great the Spielberg is using what many call the worlds greatest stage to show the collusion between the government of china and the slaughter of close to 500,000 men women and children in Darfur.

I wish other activists had the same courage of their convictions.

Attention is required to end this slaughter.

With respect Iraq is in the news every day. The fact that the US has not withdrawn is a matter for numerous other threads.

Darfur is not in the news every day. Many in the world have never heard of the slaughter in Darfur.


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 04:24 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Save Darfur? Not so fast.

Who runs the Save Darfur Campaign? What are their motivations? Why are they race-baiting against Arabs?


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:25 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle with respect should the world turn a blind eye to the slaughter?
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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 04:26 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
With respect Iraq is in the news every day. The fact that the US has not withdrawn is a matter for numerous other threads.

Darfur is not in the news every day. Many in the world have never heard of the slaughter in Darfur.


The U.S. has invaded and occupies Iraq. China has done nothing of the sort. Spielberg is extremely confused - or something.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:27 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unionist you are correct. In my opinion China did something worse. China allowed the slaughter to continue by preventing it from being stopped.
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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 04:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With respect, johnpauljones, I think the organizations and politicians behind this push for military intervention into Darfur should clean their own backyards first instead of using Darfur as a way of distracting people from the atrocities they support in the US and the Middle East.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:31 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle if we waited for backyards to be clean before any intervention anywhere in the world. Well hell would freeze over first.

Canada could never do anything because of our record of treatment to the first nations and the fact that many reserves are below third world quality and standards.


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Catchfire
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posted 14 February 2008 04:34 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So instead of pillaging Afghanistan we would be giving First Nation communities clean water? Sounds alright to me...
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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 04:42 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds good to me too.

My point isn't about completing everything before looking elsewhere. My point is about using elsewhere as a way of distracting people from atrocities the groups who are pushing this campaign ACTIVELY SUPPORT. Like the pillage of Iraq. Like the pillage of Afghanistan. Like Israeli apartheid. Most of the establishment groups who are pushing for military intervention into oil-rich Darfur not only haven't done anything to stop those other issues in which they have a much stronger stake, they're actively supporting them.

And using Darfur as a way of getting people to "Look, over there! Bad! Bad! No, don't look here! Look there! There! Bad!"


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:48 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I understand Michelle and I support and work with groups that support 2 of the 3 actions you referenced.

I guess then I should not be involved in Darfur advocacy. That is too bad since one of the things my group has advocated is taking the US troops from Iraq and sending them to Darfur.

ETA: my Darfur advocacy is done by an umbrella organization with membership from many religious groups and community activist organizations. Many of these groups if not all are involved in the anti-war movement and guess what some are also involved in middle east advocacy. On that last topic we agree not to let our difference of opinions get in the way of our work.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


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Briguy
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posted 14 February 2008 04:51 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Oh my my how horrendous of Spielberg to use Darfur, a small unworthy place, as a flimsy excuse for pulling out of his olympic work.

I mean after all only hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children have to date been slaughtered by the janjaweed and many more tens of thousands awaiting a death sentence.

By anyone's measure this is without question a genocide in the making. And Spielberg's attempt to continue to shine ANY light on the brutalities being faced there ought to be widely applauded not questioned.


Ohara, my problem with this is that Spielberg was working with China in the first place. There probably isn't a country with a worse current history of human rights abuses than China, and yet he was more than happy to work with them. Suddenly, China's not good enough for him because of Darfur? It's nice that Spielberg has a cause and whatnot (and he's not completely wrong about the horrors going on in the Sudan, although his solution may be wrong), but he should really have thought longer about his original decision to work with Beijing if human rights are such a deciding factor in his work.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Briguy ]


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:54 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Briguy well said. many of us were disgusted when the IOC awarded Beijing the Olympics in the first place.

That being said I still commend him for his actions. I wish he would have used his pulpit earlier but better late than never.


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Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 04:55 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Who runs the Save Darfur Campaign? What are their motivations? Why are they race-baiting against Arabs?


Reason for Sudan PR Scam#3:

quote:
If stopping genocide in Africa really was on the agenda, why the focus on Sudan with 200,000 to 400,000 dead rather than Congo with five million dead?

Jeez, is that like the numeral 5 with six zeros appended to it? I'm going to have to reflect on that one for at least a minute or two.


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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 04:56 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:

I guess then I should not be involved in Darfur advocacy. That is too bad since one of the things my group has advocated is taking the US troops from Iraq and sending them to Darfur.

I agree with your first statement. Your group should not be advocating sending US troops from Iraq to Darfur. That's no longer Bush-lite. Its 200 proof.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 04:59 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The comments that people have posted at the bottom of the article that Michelle linked to are quite shocking actually.
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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 05:08 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
The comments that people have posted at the bottom of the article that Michelle linked to are quite shocking actually.

I agree. People who blame "the Jews" have a poor historical record of success. And I personally wish them a life of pain and failure.

By the same token, it's a tribute to the efforts of the Israeli Zionists and their apologists that the noble name of the Jewish people gets associated with crimes against humanity, violations of international law, and blind support for the U.S. military-industrial machine.


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Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 05:16 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
The comments that people have posted at the bottom of the article that Michelle linked to are quite shocking actually.

I missed those. But I must say I was a tad shocked, dismayed and bewildered at the thought of what U.S. proxies Rwanda and Uganda have perpetrated in the Congo. 5, 000, 000 dead Congolese is a breathtaking number of people not to be alive, as in inanimate and no longer occupying a mineral-rich African country. I was so taken aback that I had to post a comment.


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 05:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree that some of the comments below the article are a big problem. I mentioned that the first time I posted the article on babble in another thread. I also mentioned that those people were well-refuted and rebuked by other people posting comments.

We get neo-nazi and antisemitic people on babble sometimes too. And they're well-refuted and kicked off by the mods. That doesn't mean people shouldn't link to babble threads.


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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 05:58 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Briguy well said. many of us were disgusted when the IOC awarded Beijing the Olympics in the first place.

Were you disgusted about Salt Lake City?

You think the IOC should have human rights hearings, with submissions from all interested parties, before picking an Olympic site?

How many sites do you think would be left?


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Jingles
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posted 14 February 2008 05:59 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Won't somebody please think of the Hollywood celebrity!? I mean, it's hard work trying to look like a humanitarian activist without actually having to take a position that could jeopardize your career. If Brad Pitt went to Palestine and stood in front of a bulldozer, he'd end up in the padded room beside Brittney.

Sudan is a perfect celebricause. They can posture and cry but never have to address their complicity in the crimes of their own country, or their own countrys' complicity in Sudan's misery.

Spielberg has a lot of nerve. His role as propagandizer for the American Way of Life does much to reinforce the sense of supremecy and exceptionalism in Americans. It's this belief that makes them think it is their right and their duty to use military force against everyone else on the planet whenever they feel like it.


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Le Téléspectateur
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posted 14 February 2008 06:12 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Free Tibet!

(sarcastically commenting on the hypocracy of North American colonialists)


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Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 06:16 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Im reading this thread and shaking my head in amazement and utter frustration.

With the possible exception of Briguy and JPJ, many of the rest here are looking at "reasons" the Jewish community supports derailing a potential genocide.

Shame on you!

I know Holocuast survivors and yes these men and women organized by (heavens forbid) a Canadian Jewish organization, meet with both Rwnadan and Darfurian survivors to share pain and give support. But hell they too probably have an agenda.

Are you so filled with conspiritorial suspicions against Jewish groups that you immeditaly assume the worst? I guess so.


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Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 06:20 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Spielberg should make a movie about it, and spend lots of money on researching facts in the process. Brad Pith as the disinterested American "food critic" in Darfur turned humanitarian?
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Le Téléspectateur
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posted 14 February 2008 06:26 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Petsy - you are way off base. The discussion is about rich Americans slaping China's wrist for "not doing anything abour Darfur" when they themselves are commiting horrible acts in Iraq and Afganistan and Palistine and of course Turtle Island.

Start with yourself and work outwards for change, anything else is paternalistic colonialism.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 06:29 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
Petsy - you are way off base. The discussion is about rich Americans slaping China's wrist for "not doing anything abour Darfur" when they themselves are commiting horrible acts in Iraq and Afganistan and Palistine and of course Turtle Island.

Why do we not complain when some of these same "rich american" celebrities are on the front lines of the anti-war movement.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 06:32 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But back to the topic at hand. Here is a question.

Why have none of the leading American activists called for an Olympic Boycott?

If their has been a major call for boycott I have not seen it.

ETA where has the call for a Canadian boycott been?

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


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Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 06:41 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
Petsy - you are way off base. The discussion is about rich Americans slaping China's wrist for "not doing anything abour Darfur" when they themselves are commiting horrible acts in Iraq and Afganistan and Palistine and of course Turtle Island.

Start with yourself and work outwards for change, anything else is paternalistic colonialism.


Michelle's insinuation buttresed by Unionist was pretty clear and had more to do with Jewish organizational agendas than American imperialism.

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Le Téléspectateur
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posted 14 February 2008 06:51 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why do we not complain when some of these same "rich american" celebrities are on the front lines of the anti-war movement.


Uh, because it's their war.


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 09:34 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
Michelle's insinuation buttresed by Unionist was pretty clear and had more to do with Jewish organizational agendas than American imperialism.

I insinuated no such thing. Awfully touchy, aren't you?

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 09:46 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:

Why do we not complain when some of these same "rich american" celebrities are on the front lines of the anti-war movement.


This page lists several chickenhawks in the entertainment biz. Some of the names are: Spielberg, Wayne, Stallone, Clancy and Sinatra.

Chickenhawks tend to be mouthpieces for the vicious empire in their spare time.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 10:04 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fidel I notice that your list did not have the likes of Don Cheadle, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Alan Alda, Danny Glover to name but a few.

Are they chickenhawks as well?


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 10:12 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No. Because - wait for it - they're not HAWKS.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 10:14 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle my point is that the list the Fidel presented had little to do with Darfur since the group of people i mentioned have all been involved in Darfur advocacy as well as anti-war.

Wait for it ....

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


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Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 10:15 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

I insinuated no such thing. Awfully touchy, aren't you?


[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


Not awfully, just touchy...and what organizations could you possible be referring to? And claiming that the murder of over half a million Darfurians is nothing but a "distraction" used to further the agenda of whatever organizations you are referring to is indeed shameful.

quote:
posted 14 February 2008 04:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With respect, johnpauljones, I think the organizations and politicians behind this push for military intervention into Darfur should clean their own backyards first instead of using Darfur as a way of distracting people from the atrocities they support in the US and the Middle East.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Petsy ]


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Michelle
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posted 14 February 2008 10:16 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What kind of action are they pushing for? If it's military intervention, then I have a problem with that. If it's a diplomatic solution, then fine.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 10:16 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actor Matt Damon said: Maybe President Bush’s daughters should go to Iraq

And contrary to rumors, I really don't think Sarah Silverman is fucking Matt Damon.


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 10:19 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
What kind of action are they pushing for? If it's military intervention, then I have a problem with that. If it's a diplomatic solution, then fine.

Whether it is military action or a diplomatic solution for Darfur the holywood rich americans i mentioned are all in agreement that the slaughter of 500,000 men women and children (which is referred to as a "distrcation" in a previous post) needs to end

These very same people march with Americans and Canadians calling upon Georgie to get the boys and girls out of Iraq.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


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Le Téléspectateur
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posted 14 February 2008 10:23 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: Le Téléspectateur ]


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Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 10:52 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:

These very same people march with Americans and Canadians calling upon Georgie to get the boys and girls out of Iraq.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


And there are actual Republican chickenhawks and real hawks alike who think Crazy George, the Pentagon and Blackwater gestapo should get the hell out of Iraq. So what? Does that mean we should listen to those same pathological killers and prolific liars about Darfur?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 10:56 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Why have none of the leading American activists called for an Olympic Boycott?

If their has been a major call for boycott I have not seen it.

ETA where has the call for a Canadian boycott been?


Are you calling for a boycott? Or are you calling for others to call for a boycott?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 10:59 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
Michelle's insinuation buttresed by Unionist was pretty clear and had more to do with Jewish organizational agendas than American imperialism.

Listen - either back up your dirty little statement with a quote from me, or I will call you (in very large typeface) what you really are. And you wouldn't want that.

If you can't back it up, you apologize right now - now.

ETA: Too late - you asked for it, don't say I didn't warn you:

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 11:23 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Are you calling for a boycott? Or are you calling for others to call for a boycott?

I already have. I have written to the head of the COC asking for a boycott on human rights grounds.


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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 11:27 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:

I already have. I have written to the head of the COC asking for a boycott on human rights grounds.


Did you cite the specific human rights violations that triggered your concern?


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 11:30 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Did you cite the specific human rights violations that triggered your concern?

Since this is now a quiz. I wrote a 5 page letter that outlined human rights abuses from Tibet to the 1 child policy to the terrible working conditions to executions on trumped up charges to the suppressing of any opinion that is against the centers to the use of torture to the supression of religious freedoms.

So yes unionist I did give examples and I did call for a boycott.

ETA Unionist it is common sense to me that if I call for a boycott based on a charge of Human Rights violations I would have to provide examples.

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


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LemonThriller
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posted 14 February 2008 11:33 AM      Profile for LemonThriller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Must everything be so political? Can't we just have an event that celebrates athletes coming together and competing in camaraderie, regardless of religion, race or creed?

These athletes have almost nothing to do with the policies of their government. The IOC simply looks to hold the Olympics in different parts of the world to fulfill its multicultural mandate (looking past the corruption of it all).

Almost every single country could potentially be boycotted for its crimes against humanity. What's great about the Olympics though is that it shines a spotlight on the particular host country, and I don't think that's a bad thing. But I don't think a boycott accomplishes much.


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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 11:34 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:

ETA Unionist it is common sense to me that if I call for a boycott based on a charge of Human Rights violations I would have to provide examples.


Ok, next question on the quiz:

Did you call for a boycott of the Salt Lake City Olympics?


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johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 11:36 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unionist in the time around the Salt Lake City olympics my father was near death. I did not call for a boycott for anything. Rather I took close to 6 months off work to help care for a parent.
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Le Téléspectateur
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posted 14 February 2008 11:39 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What about Vancouver? At least China isn't hosting the Olympics in Tibet, which is essentially what Canada is doing.

quote:
Must everything be so political? Can't we just have an event that celebrates athletes coming together and competing in camaraderie, regardless of religion, race or creed?
These athletes have almost nothing to do with the policies of their government. The IOC simply looks to hold the Olympics in different parts of the world to fulfill its multicultural mandate (looking past the corruption of it all).

Almost every single country could potentially be boycotted for its crimes against humanity. What's great about the Olympics though is that it shines a spotlight on the particular host country, and I don't think that's a bad thing. But I don't think a boycott accomplishes much.


What a privileged life you must live in la-la land.


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 11:40 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Unionist in the time around the Salt Lake City olympics my father was near death. I did not call for a boycott for anything. Rather I took close to 6 months off work to help care for a parent.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bring back those memories.

Let me try a different question.

Do you think we should stop trading with China until they mend their ways? Or are you only concerned about sports?


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LemonThriller
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posted 14 February 2008 11:44 AM      Profile for LemonThriller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, and without the Olympics coming to Vancouver barely anyone would know about the ongoing oppression of First Nations in Canada.

We should protest the incursion of Olympic events on Native land, but like I said, I don't think boycotts accomplish much.


From: Halifax, N.S. | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 11:46 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

Listen - either back up your dirty little statement with a quote from me, or I will call you (in very large typeface) what you really are. And you wouldn't want that.

If you can't back it up, you apologize right now - now.

ETA: Too late - you asked for it, don't say I didn't warn you:

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]



No apology necessary...here is your agenda


quote:
posted 14 February 2008 05:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
The comments that people have posted at the bottom of the article that Michelle linked to are quite shocking actually.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... it's a tribute to the efforts of the Israeli Zionists and their apologists that the noble name of the Jewish people gets associated with crimes against humanity, violations of international law, and blind support for the U.S. military-industrial machine.



From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 11:49 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Petsy, the craven adoration for the Israeli criminals by some Jews, is what allows the anti-Semites and neo-Nazis to paint all Jews with that brush.

I condemn the anti-Semites, of course - as you have no doubt seen every time they rear their filthy heads on this board and elsewhere. But I don't forget to condemn the racist aggressors of all stripes. That's what makes me - and not you - a worthy heir of our people's traditions.


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martin dufresne
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posted 14 February 2008 11:51 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
(See below)

[ 14 February 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 11:53 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonThriller:

We should protest the incursion of Olympic events on Native land, but like I said, I don't think boycotts accomplish much.

Boycotts can accomplish a great deal. They were a powerful aid to the struggle of the South African people against the white minority apartheid state.

The more interesting question is who should be the target of such boycotts.

Like you, I always find it interesting when people are capable of condemning human rights abroad - while being complicit in their violation at home.

I thought Le Téléspectateur said it perfectly:

quote:
Start with yourself and work outwards for change, anything else is paternalistic colonialism.

From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 11:55 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bring back those memories.

Let me try a different question.

Do you think we should stop trading with China until they mend their ways? Or are you only concerned about sports?


I would love to see a boycott on all things from China.


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 11:56 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Martin what does your post have to do with Darfur or boycotts of China?
From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 14 February 2008 12:00 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It has everything to do with positions taken by artists about genocidal wars of agression and our collusion with the perpetrators.
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 12:03 PM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Petsy, the craven adoration for the Israeli criminals by some Jews, is what allows the anti-Semites and neo-Nazis to paint all Jews with that brush.

I condemn the anti-Semites, of course - as you have no doubt seen every time they rear their filthy heads on this board and elsewhere. But I don't forget to condemn the racist aggressors of all stripes. That's what makes me - and not you - a worthy heir of our people's traditions.


It is so enlightening to hear you speak so highly of yourself....surely you know what they say about people who toot their own horns so consistantly

From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
LemonThriller
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posted 14 February 2008 12:04 PM      Profile for LemonThriller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
[QB][/QB]

OK, I can agree with, to an extent. Boycotts I guess can be effective, but what I worry about in this circumstance is that the boycott targets an event instead of the larger systemic issues of racism and imperialism.

So let's say there's a boycott, and the Olympics move an event or two off Native land -- does that fix things?


From: Halifax, N.S. | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2008 12:04 PM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Martin fair enough. So are you in favour of Spielberg withdrawing from the Olympics and using Darfur as the example?

The piece you posted which I have had emailed to me from many different organizations that I belong to seems to support exactly what Spielberg did.


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
It is so enlightening to hear you speak so highly of yourself....surely you know what they say about people who toot their own horns so consistantly

That they're horny?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 14 February 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LemonThriller:
Yes, and without the Olympics coming to Vancouver barely anyone would know about the ongoing oppression of First Nations in Canada.

We should protest the incursion of Olympic events on Native land, but like I said, I don't think boycotts accomplish much.


Are certain events on lands currently under claim?


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 12:13 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Martin fair enough. So are you in favour of Spielberg withdrawing from the Olympics and using Darfur as the example?

Don't be silly. He wants Spielberg to withdraw from the Rendez-Vous du Cinéma Québécois.

By the way, I had already posted that letter in CMOT's ongoing thread, where it is arguably a little bit more on-topic that it is here.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 12:15 PM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

That they're horny?


Unionist do you know what a Petsy is?

From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
LemonThriller
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posted 14 February 2008 12:17 PM      Profile for LemonThriller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo:

Are certain events on lands currently under claim?


Well, kinda yeah:

http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2007/04/07/1020/

I'm no expert on what's happening.


From: Halifax, N.S. | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 February 2008 12:19 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Using the genocide charge to militarize Sudan’s oil region 2007

quote:

Genocide was the preferred theme, and Washington was the orchestra conductor. Curiously, while all observers acknowledge that Darfur has seen a large human displacement and human misery and tens of thousands or even as much as 300,000 deaths in the last several years, only Washington and the NGO’s close to it use the charged term “genocide” to describe Darfur. If they are able to get a popular acceptance of the charge genocide, it opens the possibility for drastic “regime change” intervention by NATO and de facto by Washington into Sudan’s sovereign affairs.

The genocide theme is being used, with full-scale Hollywood backing from the likes of pop stars like George Clooney, to orchestrate the case for a de facto NATO occupation of the region. So far the Sudan government has vehemently refused, not surprisingly. . .

Merchants of death

The United States, acting through surrogate allies in Chad and neighboring states has trained and armed the Sudan Peoples’ Liberation Army, headed until his death in July 2005, by John Garang, trained at US Special Forces school at Fort Benning, Georgia


You don't need to speak for these guys, JPJ. They wouldn't give you the snot out of their noses for being their mouthpiece anyway.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 12:24 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
Unionist do you know what a Petsy is?

Sure I do - but it's the diminutive form!


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
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posted 14 February 2008 12:35 PM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

Sure I do - but it's the diminutive form!


I see it deinitely means you have to have one to know one

From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 14 February 2008 12:53 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Link to Canadian film-maker Malcolm Guy's similar resignation from the jury of an imminent Quebec film festival because of its funding by the Canadian Jewish Council, an organization which he deems "a vehicle for the Israeli propaganda machine and fundamentally intolerant of dissent and difference, particularly when it comes to Israeli government policies."
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 14 February 2008 07:17 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I looked and loooked and looked , googled it but am hard pressed to find any organization known as the Canadian Jewish Council. Now there is a Canadian Jewish Congress but since their mandate is not Israel related I cannot imagine what is being referred to.
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unionist
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posted 14 February 2008 07:22 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps you people could go find a room thread where someone cares about Jews. This is about the Beijing Olympics, human rights issues, and Darfur.
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Erik Redburn
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posted 14 February 2008 07:35 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I support Darfur. That's a statement I can stand behind....
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 18 February 2008 04:47 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Three of the five rebel groups fighting Sudanese forces in Darfur are unwilling to negotiate a peace, according to the UN's special envoy to Darfur, Jan Eliasson. This makes it difficult for Khartoum, let alone China, to bring an end to the conflict, unless ending the conflict means Khartoum capitulating and handing Darfur and its oil assets to the rebels and their Western backers. This, of course, would suit strategists in the US State Department, to say nothing of the US oil industry.

By comparison, ending the much larger humanitarian catastrophes in Somalia (with 850,000 displaced, Somalia has been called Africa's largest and most ignored catastrophe) and Iraq (four million refugees and hundreds of thousands dead as a result of the US invasion) is directly within the capability of Washington.

The US simply has to order Ethiopia, which it directed to illegally invade Somalia in December 2006, to withdraw. If the Ethiopians balk, cutting off the rich flow of military aid Washington rewards the Meles regime with, will exert needed pressure.
....
If China's ties to the government of Sudan provide it with the opportunity and obligation to press for change, doesn't Spielberg's visibility, and his status as a US citizen, provide him with the opportunity and obligation to press for change where his own government has created far greater human suffering?


Chauvinist in Humanitarian Drag

[ 18 February 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 18 February 2008 06:00 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If everyone had to live in perfect nation to protest then they might as well ban all protest. I for one don't blame the aborginal rebels one bit for refusing to lay down their arms in the face of Sudanese aggression.
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 18 February 2008 08:32 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Protest begins at home.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 18 February 2008 09:27 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sure, but it doesn't always have to end there. Look, I know Washington is playing its usual games but IMV every conflict also has to be taken in light of the damage already being done versus what could, should or might be done in response. The American Empire maybe the biggest threat we now face on the larger scale, but on the ground level other actors and issues come into it too, so morally it's not such an easy call to make either way.

[ 18 February 2008: Message edited by: Erik Redburn ]


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 19 February 2008 08:12 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not impressed with "protests" against China that essentially amount to cheerleading for the goals of US foreign policy.

Gestures of protest by USians against Amerikka's "enemies" are cowardly, ineffectual, and hypocritical, especially when they come from people who don't publicly denounce the much greater crimes committed by their own government.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 19 February 2008 09:05 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is a lot to be said for Mr. Spielberg's voluntary retraction of his services from this event.

First and foremost, I am sure that the other members of the committee are more than happy to have this blow hard remove himself from their presence so that they can do some real work.

Secondly, he is not a particularly good artist in the first place so the value of his "artistic" advice is questionable, and even doubly so, because of the fact that all of Mr.Spielberg's experience is in film, and the Bejing Olympics certainly is not a film, but a sporting event.

Let him go bother the people at the UN.

[ 19 February 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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