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Author Topic: Ottawa Arts Cut
writer
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Babbler # 2513

posted 11 March 2004 11:32 AM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Received this in my e-mail last week. Thought some babblers might want to act on it.

OTTAWA ARTS NEEDS YOUR HELP BEFORE MARCH 24!

The arts in Ottawa are under a very real threat of extinction by its own City government.

The Mayor and Councilors of Ottawa need to hear from the national arts community. As things stand now, there is a likelihood that many artists and arts organizations will cease to exist. Please contact me if you would like to discuss this further.

The City of Ottawa‚s Draft Budget 2004 annihilates Ottawa's arts community. It proposes an 80% cut to all arts funding and elimination of all festivals. Supporters of arts for Ottawa have until March 24 (when City of Ottawa Councillors will approve the final budget) to make their voices heard. Please support the arts in Ottawa by writing the Mayor and Ottawa City Councillors, letting them know that Ottawa will not be a travel destination for you if they approve this budget. Please ask them to reinstate 100% of Ottawa's arts funding.

You can find the e-mail addresses and information about the proposed budget at
Ottawa Art Gallery -- Budget 2004.

You can also cut and paste the message below into an e-mail.

The City of Ottawa's entire arts budget is equivalent to the cost of paving 1 [??] city blocks.

Here is the current per capita spending on the arts in Canada's four largest cities:

Montreal $26.62
Vancouver $17.71
Toronto $14.64
Ottawa $3.89 (Current)
Ottawa 57¢ (If Draft Budget 2004 is approved)

"If the new Ottawa budget goes through, Ottawa's arts spending will fall to 57¢ per capita, making the national capital a national disgrace -- and an international laughingstock." ˆ National Post

LETTER TO SEND TO THE MAYOR AND CITY OF OTTAWA COUNCILLORS:

Dear Mayor Chiarelli and City of Ottawa Councillors,

It is with great concern that I write you about your plans to cut funding to the arts in Ottawa.

A vibrant arts community is an important element of any successful urban area. Relying solely on the federal and provincial governments to determine the future of your community is a serious error. By abandoning the arts at the municipal level, you rob your citizens of their most important means of production - the means for producing meaning. The citizens of Ottawa will lose their voice, the Ontario and Canadian agencies will cut funding due to a lack of local support. You will cause a collapse in the investment of local artists and audiences, not to mention all levels of government.

As the artists and arts organizations in Ottawa have proven, Ottawa is not just a federal workplace. It is a real and vital city because of its artists and local arts organizations. To cut arts funding will initially seem to save money but soon costs will increase for the increased policing, social and other costs related to the devolution of your community. In the long term, tax rates will have to increase to account for the declining property values as your city becomes less and less desirable to live in, and less and less desirable to visit.

I urge you to reinstate 100% of the City of Ottawa's arts funding,

[Name]
[City]

[ 11 March 2004: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 11 March 2004 12:05 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Out of curiosity, how much of the culture slack in Ottawa is taken up by the federal government? I know that the NAC is not a city-funded institution, nor the museums, etc.

Nevertheless, I agree that the cuts suck. Ottawa has had a Stupid Tax Freeze for 10 years, and now it's time to pay the piper. Everything suffers, including the arts and future plans to expand public transit.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 11 March 2004 12:29 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More at:
http://www.gctc.ca/news/
http://oiw.ca/OttawaCityBudgetCuts.html
http://www.ifco.ca/arts.htm (Independent Film Co-operative of Ottawa)
http://www.artengine.net/~artlog/archive/2004_02_22_stuff.html
http://www.neighbourhoodnews.ca/279840898316782.php

From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 12 March 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
WRITERS FESTIVAL TO CLOSE OFFICE AND SCALE BACK

In the face of budget cuts from the City, the Ottawa International Writers Festival will be closing its office in the By Ward Market and scaling back its annual celebration of the word from ten to five days in 2004.

"We want to first of all thank the citizens of Ottawa for their generous and loyal support over the past seven years. With their help the Writers Festival has played an increasingly important role in the cultural life of this City," says Neil Wilson, Founding Director of the Festival. "'We have not only brought over 500 of the world's finest new and established voices from around the world to share the stage with Ottawa's best, we have also been able to subsidize all of our children's programming so those events, held throughout the year, are free for all young readers."

"It has been our dream, from the outset, to produce the best Literary Festival in the world, and to help position Ottawa as a truly international cultural capital," says Artistic Director Sean Wilson. "Now, we're doing everything necessary to continue serving the community. If continuing to offer a world-class Festival with free children's programming without support from our local government means a drastic cut to the size of the Festival and our staff setting up home offices, so be it. Last year there was so much demand for our free children's programs we decided it was time to expand our commitment to youth literacy. We're still committed to expanding our work with children and Ottawa's Beacon Schools, but to do that, we need to find new partners. In spite of this setback, we are hopeful that we will find an angel or two who share our passion for literacy and the arts and its importance to our community's quality of life."

Using the City of Ottawa's own measuring stick, the Writers Festival has generated about $10 million in spinoff benefits for the local economy since 1997.

This year, the annual Festival will run from September 29 to October 3 at the Library and Archives Canada complex at 395 Wellington Street.

To become a Festival Member or to make a charitable donation please call us at (613) 562-1243

--
Oneness-World Communications
Ottawa International Writers Festival
www.writersfest.com
(613) 562-1243
298 Dalhousie Street, Box 52066
Ottawa, Ontario K1N 7E



From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 13 March 2004 01:42 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In a worst-case scenario, the library would be forced to close four of its branches, shut down the remaining branches for three weeks to reduce hours of operation, and drop the bookmobile.

If you would like to object to Ottawa's proposed cuts, the first post on this thread links to an Ottawa Gallery site which includes e-mail addresses and further information.


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 11:12 AM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
March 16, 2004


Dear Constituent,

Many of you have shared your views on the proposed 2004 Budget. Some have been from the perspective of what's best for you, some from the perspective of what's best for the community. Many see a modest tax increase as desirable and needed. Many believe in a tax freeze at any cost. There are strong views on all sides.

I, as Mayor, respect both the strong participation and the divergent views. But this is a defining budget for our community as we wrestle with cutting $101.5 million from the corporation. I'm proud of our record of freezing taxes over the last ten years. It's the best municipal tax record in Canada. I've always believed that competitive taxes are an important component of any successful economy and community.

As proud as I am of my record on taxes, I'm equally proud of the quality of life in our community. Finding the right balance between keeping taxes at the lowest level possible and maintaining a quality of life at the highest level possible is always a difficult challenge.

Over the past number of weeks and months, I've had many discussions with Councillors and thousands of residents throughout our city. As is the norm, I understand there have been ongoing discussions amongst all members of council as to whether a tax increase is required.

I have struggled with trying to find the right balance to do what's best for the ongoing financial sustainability of the corporation and, ultimately, what's best for our residents. This should be part of a long-term plan to maintain the financial and economic health of our community. That's also why at the same time I've been pushing the other levels of government on the need for a "New Deal" for cities and demanding that the Province fix the broken property tax/assessment system.

As we proceed with public consultations, I want to share with you my intent to maintain our competitive position. As Mayor, I believe that the right balance is to support $76.5 million in administrative and service cuts and to protect $25 million worth of essential services.

I believe this 3% per cent inflation related tax increase to our residents is the most responsible approach to the 2004 Budget. I don't underestimate the enormous challenge that cuts of this magnitude will present and the impact this will have on jobs in the corporation and services to the public.

I continue to challenge City Council and the public to help me to determine what the make-up of that 3% envelope should be, as well as to continue finding efficiencies within the corporation.

As we move forward, and in keeping with our best traditions, I would encourage a responsible and respectful debate as we all strive to keep Ottawa the best city in Canada.

I have attached some information that I believe will help the context of the ongoing debate.

Sincerely,

Bob Chiarelli
Mayor
City of Ottawa



From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 16 March 2004 11:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is so easy to show that people who work in the arts in Canada are probably the most "efficient" workers in the country (partly because so many work for so little). Treating the arts as expendable whenever the mismanagement class is scared into worrying about how "competitive" we are is a false economy and always has been.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 16 March 2004 11:36 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In other news, business leaders are screaming as the city is allowed by the province to shift some of the burden of the tax increase onto business. This is a revenue-neutral move, gets them into less trouble with residents.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 March 2004 11:49 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, good -- this thread has warmed up. This is the hot thread, everyone.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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Babbler # 888

posted 16 March 2004 11:58 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Toronto snob!
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 16 March 2004 12:20 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, no, guy, you miss my point. I was thrilled to meet you here.

I was being sarcastic about the fate of this thread. As in: Never let it be said that lefties generally think about the arts in much the same way that the mismanagement class do.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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Babbler # 888

posted 16 March 2004 12:25 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I misread your winkie as sarcasm. Silly me.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 01:09 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From what I've seen in response to this thread so far, I'm not convinced, skdadl. It seems we're eager to get in a tizzy about one "controversial" artist getting $15,000, but when a city's entire arts community is about to be gutted ... well, who cares?
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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Babbler # 888

posted 16 March 2004 01:16 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geez, that artist mainly provoked a discussion about the nature of art; probably most of the people involved (including myself) didn't really care about the 15K award. If you manage to make this into an interesting philosophical discussion that we haven't covered elsewhere and wildly disagree about, I guarantee you this thread will fill up.

I rather think the lack of interest in this is due to the fact that it's an Ottawa thing rather than a Toronto thing. But maybe I'm paranoid.


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faith
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posted 16 March 2004 01:50 PM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The prevalence of cutting aid to the arts and culture aspects of society is a practise based on ignorance of their importance.
The conservatives in society must be convinced through their own logic ( ie. money) that supporting the arts make sense. The data is certainly there to support the argument that arts events are a financial boon to any community that engages in them. The business community has successfully over the last 20 -30 years mounted a propaganda campaign on the competence,intelligence, and efficeincy of 'business' or the free market.
Despite the fact that something like 90% of businesses fail and there are examples of fraud and deception everywhere on Wall St and Bay St , the campaign to paint business as the community with the acumen to form our society is still widely accepted.
Arts advocacy organisations would be doing themselves a big favour if they hired some financial / feasibility experts to conduct studies into the financial benefits of supporting the arts, and make sure they are widely published. Speaking of the positive aspects of the arts in our communities from a spiritual or educational aspect seems to fall on deaf ears unless you are one of those already involved in some way in the arts world.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 16 March 2004 02:03 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"The Manitoba Arts Council was hit with a Teddy over a $5,000 grant "to fund jewellery made with an artist's toe nails, pubic hair, mouse droppings and dead lady bugs."

Williamson called it "a project no person of sane mind would classify as art."

http://www.canada.com/news/oddities/story.html?id=88DC84C1-4072-454F-82C8-4E1E93458C3E


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Mandos
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posted 16 March 2004 02:20 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here we go again!
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 March 2004 02:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
From what I've seen in response to this thread so far, I'm not convinced, skdadl. It seems we're eager to get in a tizzy about one "controversial" artist getting $15,000, but when a city's entire arts community is about to be gutted ... well, who cares?

I agree.

I should have put a winkie on my previous post too -- I was still being sarcastic (although NOT to you, Mandos guy).

We have drawn a couple more people. But just generally, in spite of the fact that so many artists are almost automatically sympathetic to the left, other lefties don't seem all that sympathetic to the arts, sometimes maybe suspecting artists of the same sins that unnerve reformatories when they think of artists -- elitism, affectation, bourgeois backsliding, mad perversion ...

I wonder why.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 03:02 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's something that has long puzzled me too, skdadl. Anyway, here's my response to the mayor, FWIW:

quote:
Mr Chiarelli,

I thank you for your response to my message about the Ottawa city council's proposed cuts to arts funding. However, I did not address my concerns to you as a constituent. I have also in no way benefited economically from your city's funding of the arts.

My point of view is that of a person who is about to spend a few days in Ottawa, and who will take into account the vibrancy of your city's culture before making any future visits. "What's best for me" is what is best for many people considering a trip to your city. And tourism, I would think, is a somewhat relevant concern in terms of the financial and economic well-being of the city, its people and its businesses.

Most tourists do not holiday in other cities to observe "competitive taxes." People spend time away from home watching plays, going to art galleries, enjoying dances, indulging in some quiet time at a library, seeing surprising shorts at a film festival, immersing themselves in music, discovering new writers or seeing one of their favourites read from unfamiliar work.

I believe the city council is being penny wise and pound foolish with this budget proposal. And, while I enthusiastically support the call for a New Deal for cities, I don't agree that the arts should be held hostage so that this demand will be met. The gutting you propose will do such damage to Ottawa's cultural life that it will take many years to recover.

Is tourism such an insignificant part of your city's income? Do you think the people coming to visit will be content to simply watch tulips grow and die, skate on the canal and take pictures at the eternal flame? How soon do you think it will be before word gets around that Ottawa has become a creative dead zone? Is this myopia really "competitive"? Will this fiscal approach attract anyone to visit? Since 2001, tourism has softened around the world, and last year's SARS crisis affected Canada specifically. I'm sure the downturn has been felt by hotels, restaurants and other business in Ottawa. How is stripping galleries, libraries, and festivals of their support going to help lure visitors back to the city?

Ottawa should not be reduced to "a corporation" as you call it. Corporate concerns and the life of a community are two different things. If you and your city's councillors cannot perceive that difference, my heart goes out to those forced to live with your ignorance. It will cost the people of Ottawa dearly.

Sincerely,
Judy MacDonald



From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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Babbler # 888

posted 16 March 2004 03:06 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not sarcastic to me??? But...but...it's all about me! Right? Right?
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 March 2004 03:14 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*echo, echo*
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 16 March 2004 03:21 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a great letter, Judy.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 03:42 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, Michelle.

Your sarcasm was clear to me both times, Ms skdadl, but I suspected others might miss it. And, being the blunt character that I am, I thought I'd once again spell out my position that a lot of folks on the left don't really care too much about the arts ... unless they read about something "outrageous" in the mainstream. That seems to get so many ranting along with the best of the Reformers.

We're talking about libraries closing and bookmobiles not going to more remote locations any more. Surely here we can all agree that this is culture worth supporting. But I have to wonder how many babblers have bothered to write in protest.

It's more fun to wait till some wacky artist pulls another prank that gets attention and makes us angry about the elitist pap we don't want to call art, dammit, and don't anybody tell me that I can't talk about art [not that anybody *is*] just because I only talk about it when I'm ranting against things I don't like and don't consider art and I know what I like and you are a selfish money-sucking elitist pseudo artist yourself with no relation to the public ... (etc.)


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The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 16 March 2004 03:46 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Strange how art has such a high value, but nobody will pay for it themselves, the only way to finance it is to scoop pailfuls of money out of the public trough.
Please respond with the "unwashed rube" arguement so I can get respond with the "Emperor's New Clothes" arguement.

From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 16 March 2004 03:51 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oatmeal: The answer is simple. People will pay for it themselves. It's just too expensive for ordinary folks to afford regularly. Consequently, we take money from those who are able to afford it in order to finance it as a public good. It's also too expensive for many people to afford building their own good roads, maintaining sidewalks, policing, etc. We do this with public money. Same with culture.

In this, you won't find me disagreeing with writer!


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 03:52 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oatmeal Savage, I do not know what your bathing practices are. Nor am I curious.

My own interest here is to:

  • Focus on a response to the City of Ottawa's proposed budget cut to the arts;
  • Discuss why many on the left often don't support the arts, incorporating a critical concern for cultural life into their politics; and
  • Explore why those who are politically progressive are often aesthetically conservative.

Edited to add: Otherwise, what Mandos said.

[ 16 March 2004: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 16 March 2004 04:08 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As for writer's questions about arts and the left, I note that we had a very heated discussion on space travel in much the same vein a couple months ago. A lot of people on the left have an immediate-utility/emergency mindset that may thus not be as interested in 'extras.'

And as for the bit about conservative tastes, well, I admit that I like patterns, and art that is "well-ordered." I don't really like attempts at being disconcerting. I think this is true of most people regardless of their location on the political spectrum. For instance, there is a form of right-wing libertarian with aesthetic that is also very "avant-garde" (think extropians, for those of you who pay attention to futurists).


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 16 March 2004 04:29 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't really like attempts at being disconcerting.

I have seen your hat. I have read you on babble. Give. Me. A. Break.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
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posted 16 March 2004 04:29 PM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you were in Ottawa, writer, you'd see that a heck of a lot of folks care. There was a large demonstration earlier this month about proposed cuts not only to the arts but to social services as well -the groups are doing a good job of working together and avoiding the divide and conquer tactics of some councillors. "My Ottawa Includes Culture" signs have sprung up all over the city, and a packed benefit was held at the Mercury Lounge a few weeks ago (with Ed Broadbent as the first speaker). Folks are mobilized and they have support. There is more outcry over cuts to the arts than over cuts to anti-poverty programs or seniors health, which is unfortunate, but at least there is an outcry.

Of course, there is still much to be done.


From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 16 March 2004 04:33 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
skdadl: My hat actually follows a reasonably obvious pattern. It's the colours which shock people. If it had been some other colours, it would have been a pretty tame hat.

By disconcerting, I mean don't mean "surprising" or "shocking." Some of us are just prudish, and find excrement and insect guts icky as art, if fascinating under a microscope.

Umm, I don't attempt to be particularly disconcerting on babble...do I?


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 16 March 2004 04:36 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It's just too expensive for ordinary folks to afford regularly

Certainly, to buy it. But to view it for an hour? I think the average person who can buy a Big Mac could do that. In fact, here's an interesting experiment in arts funding.

Get the curator of the National Gallery to buy provocative pieces, such as the icon of this conversation, Voice of Fire, out of their salary. They're now down $50,000. Now charge visitors to the National Gallery $5 to step behind the curtain and see it. As they do so, the curator is reimbursed. After 10,000 visitors decide that they really want to see a huge red canvas, the project breaks even. The curator's gamble paid off. Now the piece goes into the open collection.

If the curator goes off on a mission of folly, and buys some ludicrous thing that nobody in Canada cares a whit to see, or if they spend too much on it, then it comes out of their pocket, not ours. Might enforce a certain accountability that not even new rules could. You can bet your ass that the curator will be doing their damnedest not to overpay, and not to choose something nobody gives a crap about (and no, it doesn't have to be a Robert Bateman). The public isn't stuck paying the bill for something that doesn't speak to at least 0.03% of Canadians.

Everybody wins!


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
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posted 16 March 2004 04:46 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good to read, vickyinottawa. My concern has more to do with babblers outside of Ottawa than those protesting their own city's budget proposal.

It's unfortunate that culture is getting more coverage than the possible social services cuts. I now regret that I didn't create a thread (and write my own letters) focussed on both. Having said that, it's heartening to know that the divide-and-conquor tactic hasn't worked.

Do you have any specifics about what is being proposed for social services?


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 March 2004 04:52 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think, writer, that probably what is happening is that most people are reading about this, nodding in agreement, and have nothing to post beyond, "Yeah! What she said!" Which may be why this thread doesn't get the same action as the one about a controversial art project, which causes a whole big debate about what constitutes art, as Mandos was saying.

It's true I haven't written a letter to Ottawa City Hall about this issue; however, I don't live in Ottawa, don't usually visit Ottawa, and so it's not something I feel I can write credibly about. If they were doing something similar in a city where I live or visit often (say, Toronto, Kingston, or Picton), then I would likely be a lot more inclined to write.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 350

posted 16 March 2004 04:52 PM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.ottawacares.ca
From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4353

posted 16 March 2004 07:15 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mexicans masturbating into jars and calling it art is a public good?
From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 16 March 2004 07:16 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if you like masterbating mexicans...
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4353

posted 16 March 2004 07:45 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You'd hardly think the taxpayers should have to pay someone to perform such a function on themselves, I'm no expert, but I've heard most people do it for free.
From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 08:18 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe I'm naive, but:
a) Most people aren't Mexican, and I hardly think Mexicans demand payment by governments before they masturbate;
b) Regardless of nationality, most people don't masturbate into jars;
c) Calling something art doesn't get you an automatic ticket to taxpayers' money -- go ahead try it, announce that something you make is art and see if a cheque arrives;
d) The public funding of Mexicans or other people to masturbate into jars or elsewhere has nothing to do with the subject at hand (pardon the pun, I couldn't help myself), as I do not know of Ottawa's city council using public funds for such a project, whether it would be called art or not.

Please take your tangent out of this discussion and make it into its own subject, The Oatmeal Savage. Otherwise, you're trolling.

[ 16 March 2004: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4353

posted 16 March 2004 08:27 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We were debating whether art should be publicly funded, the goverment funds some pretty strange things that are called art, including masturbation. I don't think that is really in the goverments mandate. If you want to sponsor it with your own money, go ahead. Become a patron to the arts with your own money, if there is such a demand for it, you'll make millions.
From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 16 March 2004 09:19 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From the mayor himself:
quote:
"It was a very mean budget quite frankly, a very ugly budget that I have very strong concerns about personally, but the cuts were across the board," he said. "They were in social services, they were in recreation, they were in arts and cultures. . . . It was not zeroing in on arts. It was, 'If we're going to have to make service cuts, they're going to be across the board.' "

from the same article:

quote:
If the cuts are approved, the Ottawa International Writers Festival will have to close its offices and scale back the annual event by half, to five days. "I'm outraged," said Artistic Director Sean Wilson. "It is very frustrating. We generate millions for this economy and we're putting Ottawa on a world stage."

Wilson said the proposed cuts in the budget would result in a 100-per-cent cut to the festival's $18,000 in annual funding.


"Art Attack" feared ...


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 16 March 2004 10:29 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dear Oatmeal Savage: These boards are lefty and progressive. If that's going to be a problem for you, you're gonna have to take yourself elsewhere. Or be taken.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4353

posted 16 March 2004 10:52 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I didn't realize the opinions here were so delicate that they couldn't stand up to a little criticism. Take what ever draconian measures that are required.
I guess I underestimated how offensive the idea of someone paying for something themselves vs getting me to pay for it can be to some people.

[ 16 March 2004: Message edited by: The Oatmeal Savage ]

[ 16 March 2004: Message edited by: The Oatmeal Savage ]


From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 16 March 2004 11:11 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Such a martyr.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1425

posted 17 March 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Judging from the the response of the municipal councillors at a town hall meeting last night, it looks as though we've managed to save our libraries (for now)!

[ 17 March 2004: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged

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